Requsted vs Actual Part II

Feel · Feb 24, 2006

Think I've fixed my N75 issues now (thanks to everyone I've hounded).

Did this earlier, just to see.

LCR, Revo Stage 1. v1.1 SPS3 Timing 6 on 97 RON :blink:

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/p.revill/Logs/Different Boost Settings.xls

Feel · Feb 24, 2006

Feel · Feb 24, 2006

Feel · Feb 24, 2006

The boost 6 one were the settings I've been running all week, so did that one first, then did the B3, B4, B5 then the B62 (just to see if giving it no time to "settle" made any difference) etc.

Feel · Feb 24, 2006

So. Why does Bentaw flow 208 g/sec, and mines more like 193 at the minute?

And, out of interest, what volume does 1 gramme of air occupy at atmospheric?

Wilko · Feb 25, 2006

1.2kg is about 1 cubic meter at stp.

Jay · Feb 25, 2006

Wilko said:
1.2kg is about 1 cubic meter at stp.

concerning dry air i would say :

ρ = 24,05 * P / ( 273,15 + T)

with ρ in kg.m³ , P in psi and T in °c

so for standard pressure (14.69 psi) and temperature (0°c) it gives 1,29 kg.m³

but per example if the temperature raise up to 30°c it would be 1,16 kg.m³

i think logging block 118 it may be possible to estimate air mass , no ?

bentaw · Feb 25, 2006

i am now flowing 215 g/s and each night it seems to be increasing have no idea why, also i have found that the revo sps2 setting for 98 ron fuel is not the revo sps3 equivelant of low boost 9 and timing 6 as when i logged these 2 the other night my car ran so much better on sps2 setting than it did on LB9 and T6.

On LB9 T6 i had 5's and 4's in my cf columns so they cant be the same as i only just managed one 3 on sps2 setting for 98 ron fuel, do you have a FMIC Feel?

bentaw · Feb 25, 2006

however i may be seeing that air flow but i am still missing that 0.2 bar of boost between requested and actual

Feel · Feb 25, 2006

Jay said:
concerning dry air i would say :

ρ = 24,05 * P / ( 273,15 + T)

with ρ in kg.m³ , P in psi and T in °c

so for standard pressure (14.69 psi) and temperature (0°c) it gives 1,29 kg.m³

but per example if the temperature raise up to 30°c it would be 1,16 kg.m³

i think logging block 118 it may be possible to estimate air mass , no ?

You can measure g/sec on 003.

I was just interested in physically how much more air 210 g/sec is over, say 190g/sec.

Feel · Feb 25, 2006

bentaw said:
i am now flowing 215 g/s and each night it seems to be increasing have no idea why, also i have found that the revo sps2 setting for 98 ron fuel is not the revo sps3 equivelant of low boost 9 and timing 6 as when i logged these 2 the other night my car ran so much better on sps2 setting than it did on LB9 and T6.

On LB9 T6 i had 5's and 4's in my cf columns so they cant be the same as i only just managed one 3 on sps2 setting for 98 ron fuel, do you have a FMIC Feel?

I'd understood that the maximum that the K04-23 would flow was 210 g/sec - this is the physical maximum of the turbo

Not sure about the SPS2/SPS3 bit, but different tanks of fuel, even different days (dry/damp) seem to alter CF.

No front mount on mine.

Feel · Feb 25, 2006

bentaw said:
however i may be seeing that air flow but i am still missing that 0.2 bar of boost between requested and actual

You mean up at 5,500 onwards? I think you will alway sdo, the K04 just won't deliver the requested boost! From what you said on your other thread, it sounds like Revo were suggesting that they simply turned down the requested boost to reduce the difference.

bentaw · Feb 25, 2006

yeah i am holding that 215g/s of airflow to redline aswell which is impressive too so i think my FMIC has had a huge part in this, i am having my code looked at by simon at mega4 on Monday so hopefully if he fixes i can still flow that amount of air

bentaw · Feb 25, 2006

tonight i pulled 216.36 g/s of air at 6080rpm so it is still rising, my intake temp at this point was 17 degrees so FMIC is a must

Jay · Feb 26, 2006

Feel said:
You can measure g/sec on 003.

i know you can directly have the MAF sensors (which is before the turbo) values (i personally use block 002 with air mass and injection timings), but i think with volume (engine speed, "volumetric efficiency") pressure and temperature you can estimate air mass entering the manifold.

on my ibiza i have a difference between requested boost and delivered with the n75 duty cycle maxing out at 95%, i first thought my car was having a problem and maybe a leak somewhere after the turbo, but if air mass is correctly estimated i have the same mass reported by the MAF sensor as the one estimated, so i don't think there's a leak

YerMother · Feb 26, 2006

Phil so from your graphs there is no point going any higher than B4 because it just can't reach it?

Is bentaw Stage 1 too or Stage 2 ? Boost is very strange! I'm confused how it's pulling so much air when it's not boosting anymore! Could it be the ECU conpensating for something? As you know fuelling is decided from readings from the MAF and the MAP sensors? Also what gear did you take your logs?

Feel · Feb 26, 2006

Looks like it, although there is a nice lump in the graph from 400 - 4500 on B6

Bentaw is stage 1 AFAIK, with stock zorst I think. I'm confused too (he has BMC on though). How much did yours pull on Awesome's dyno with the filter off? I'm right aren't I - 210g/sec is the max for a k04? Unless they're just spikes he's seeing (even if it is 210, still wonder why). Good car perhaps.

4th gear.

YerMother · Feb 26, 2006

When i first fitted the FMIC i saw 204 with a peak of 208 when you close the throttle so doesn't count! But as you know i've been having my own problems and i'm struggling to get over 185! Still waiting for new N75 to come to see if that does anything!

Not sure if k04 is 210 max surely it depends on the setup no? Back pressures temps etc. But can't see if pulling much more than that if you consider what the IHI boys pull!

bentaw · Feb 26, 2006

i have revo stage 1 and standard exhaust but i have 2 3" cold air feeds going straight into my bmc cda as i have cut my bmc cda up a bit to compensate these 2 3" feeds

Feel · Feb 26, 2006

If you get chance Ben (?) would you post up a graph of 003?

Requsted vs Actual Part II

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