As above John
So the requested figure is set by the map? In my case Revo, how does using unisettings effect this? Does it move requested or put an off set in so it will richer/leaner than requested?
I was told by a tuner that I shouldnt run my car for too long with wmi on standard plugs do you think this could be a contribution? They are normally as good as gold.
I'm really stuck until tomorrow when I get the new MAF, this is the first problem I've had in 50000 miles, I'm not used to it...hehe
Hi john, thank you for taking the time, I've read your posts in the past and you really do know your stuff
Agreed. I was just the monkey Aaron, the organ grinder's here now.....
Dave
I stayed out for ages as you were doing such a good job.
The requested figure is set by the map, depending on the load. If load is lower, it'll request a leaner mixture. I remember at a power station rolling road mine wouldn't go richer than 13:1 and they wouldn't put any load on the rollers as they were scared of melting something. I tried to explain load based ecus, and that no load= no boost = lean mixture. The car made crap power that day.
The main load measure for the ecu is maf, so lower maf value= lower load= leaner mixture request + more timing advance
As for different plugs. I ran standard bosch platinum pugs for 25k miles plus with wmi, with no plug related issues. I now run 1 heat range colder copper plugs and change them every oil change, as they're so cheap you might as well.
wmi will give you lower peak cylinder pressures and temps, so I cant see why plugs would be any less happy than without wmi. Just don't throw wmi in to early or as dave says you'll lose power. Also start at lower injection rates and edge it up logging iats and timing advance.
I run a little less than 15% of peak fuel flow at 50:50 w:m. This seems to give good iat control, no more tan 50C peaks at 30lb of boost sustained for long periods. I achieve good timing advance >20 degrees, and 32 btdc over 7k. I don't loose too much mid range either, but then I don't inject until about 4k, below which the car is flat anyway
I stayed out for ages as you were doing such a good job.
The requested figure is set by the map, depending on the load. If load is lower, it'll request a leaner mixture. I remember at a power station rolling road mine wouldn't go richer than 13:1 and they wouldn't put any load on the rollers as they were scared of melting something. I tried to explain load based ecus, and that no load= no boost = lean mixture. The car made crap power that day.
The main load measure for the ecu is maf, so lower maf value= lower load= leaner mixture request + more timing advance
As for different plugs. I ran standard bosch platinum pugs for 25k miles plus with wmi, with no plug related issues. I now run 1 heat range colder copper plugs and change them every oil change, as they're so cheap you might as well.
wmi will give you lower peak cylinder pressures and temps, so I cant see why plugs would be any less happy than without wmi. Just don't throw wmi in to early or as dave says you'll lose power. Also start at lower injection rates and edge it up logging iats and timing advance.
I run a little less than 15% of peak fuel flow at 50:50 w:m. This seems to give good iat control, no more tan 50C peaks at 30lb of boost sustained for long periods. I achieve good timing advance >20 degrees, and 32 btdc over 7k. I don't loose too much mid range either, but then I don't inject until about 4k, below which the car is flat anyway
Do you mean your max injector duty cycle is just under 85%, or do you mean your fuelling is pulled back 15%...... ?
(More likely a third option that I haven't got my head round
)
Interesting point about Load based dynos - wonder if this is why stage 1 cars make near enough the right power and the stage 2+ brigade always seem to be out by more than they'd like?
Big beef of mine about DynoDynamics rollers, Pat for ME7 based cars. I reckon the load sensing of the ecu meets the load sensing of the dyno and the result is a compromise.
Of course the theory is nonsense
Ok things are getting clearer now... Your setup is obviously perfect john, that's an awesome amount if timing. Should we all (with wmi) expect to be able to achieve close to that?
As far as injecting early goes that gives me more of a headache than yourself and Dave. The K04 spools so fast and the highest value I can start the wmi is 8psi which is between 2500 and 3000rpm.
As far as injecting early goes that gives me more of a headache than yourself and Dave. The K04 spools so fast and the highest value I can start the wmi is 8psi which is between 2500 and 3000rpm.
Aaron is it not just possible that whilst you need to adjust your WMI to get the right mix at the right rpm etc etc going on what the logs tell you ... but that the actual loss of power is really something the dyno showed that isn't actually a real loss? And by fixing what you guys are talking about will make things run correctly and show correct ( safe ) log figures but won't nescessarily affect a Dyno plot? On the road on the way down it seemed just as quick as usual ......
I won't attempt to get into the tech stuff as i could write all i know about that on the back of a stamp in a thick felt pen
I won't attempt to get into the tech stuff as i could write all i know about that on the back of a stamp in a thick felt pen
strugers1
Guest
sorry to thread hijack but my car with the hybrid was done on a load based dyno, i then went to amd with a slight boost leak i admit(which is now fixed)
at amd i lost 10bhp and 60lb ft torque would the unloaded rollers of amd have something to do with this or was it all the leak lol
at amd i lost 10bhp and 60lb ft torque would the unloaded rollers of amd have something to do with this or was it all the leak lol
strugers1
Guest
me too lol the leak was a def loss of power i was meartly making the enquirey lol
taking her there next week to see whats what,
although sometimes i do wonder about rollers in general my mates lcr ran 232bhp and 240lb ft torque but stays near as damit with remapped lcrs and is way faster than standard ones but i know before he killed me but now i can stay woth him
next meth lol but i am going to stop blaming maz for my spending and turn it to you lol
taking her there next week to see whats what,
although sometimes i do wonder about rollers in general my mates lcr ran 232bhp and 240lb ft torque but stays near as damit with remapped lcrs and is way faster than standard ones but i know before he killed me but now i can stay woth him
next meth lol but i am going to stop blaming maz for my spending and turn it to you lol
Dave
Peak fuel flow is 630cc*4, as i'm touching 100% duty cycle at 7500rpm, so 15 % would be 380cc of water. I'm about 350cc when i measured it, so close.
From memory aquamist say 10% for water and 15-20 for a 50:50 mix, but i've got their basic system maxed out. It's fixed volume as well so to give me gains at the top end it may be costing me a little mid range, but flow goes from 100g/s to 180g/s (14lb to 30lb boost) in 450rpm after injection starts.
My system is far from perfect, but I do achieve good timing advance. I don't think you'll get that much on a small port, maybe into the low 20's, but knock sensors will stop you before you get there unless your tuner will reduce their effects. They are over sensitive, but are there for safety so you can understand that.
Tuners will always er on the side of caution as they don't want customers coming back with blown up engines when a sensor goes tits up and they are too close to the ragged edge.
Mine knows that if it blows up, it's my problem, and I'll fix it.
As for injecting too early, buy a switch off aquamist and set it to 12-14psi, unless you have a maf or injector signal driven system in which case you can start earlier as you won't inject too much at low rpm (low fuel flow)
Peak fuel flow is 630cc*4, as i'm touching 100% duty cycle at 7500rpm, so 15 % would be 380cc of water. I'm about 350cc when i measured it, so close.
From memory aquamist say 10% for water and 15-20 for a 50:50 mix, but i've got their basic system maxed out. It's fixed volume as well so to give me gains at the top end it may be costing me a little mid range, but flow goes from 100g/s to 180g/s (14lb to 30lb boost) in 450rpm after injection starts.
My system is far from perfect, but I do achieve good timing advance. I don't think you'll get that much on a small port, maybe into the low 20's, but knock sensors will stop you before you get there unless your tuner will reduce their effects. They are over sensitive, but are there for safety so you can understand that.
Tuners will always er on the side of caution as they don't want customers coming back with blown up engines when a sensor goes tits up and they are too close to the ragged edge.
Mine knows that if it blows up, it's my problem, and I'll fix it.
As for injecting too early, buy a switch off aquamist and set it to 12-14psi, unless you have a maf or injector signal driven system in which case you can start earlier as you won't inject too much at low rpm (low fuel flow)
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Aaron is it not just possible that whilst you need to adjust your WMI to get the right mix at the right rpm etc etc going on what the logs tell you ... but that the actual loss of power is really something the dyno showed that isn't actually a real loss? And by fixing what you guys are talking about will make things run correctly and show correct ( safe ) log figures but won't nescessarily affect a Dyno plot? On the road on the way down it seemed just as quick as usual ......
I won't attempt to get into the tech stuff as i could write all i know about that on the back of a stamp in a thick felt pen
I'm not sure pat. I initially wanted water injection for safety side of things, I thought I could handle it if I lost some performance for a safer engine so I wasn't too bothered... The more I read into the meth the more I want it running perfect.
The characteristics had changed on the way to AMD and I was a bit stupid to not check why, it could have been costly.
Hehe you can't blame me for the spending although I was very impressed by the diesel Ibiza running 250bhp and 400lb/ft..... That was running meth
brad1
Guest
i need to do some calculating... i dont think ive logged any blocks with my duty cycle in..EDIT: lol i need to do calculating again (you would have thought this would have been included in Vagcom)
your turbo spools very quickly.... Meth is awesome stuff isnt it.
ill go looking for an Aquamist switch, IIRC they have to be tapped into the mani , can you fit them onto a hose?
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i realise my MAF is under reading and this may not be accurate if it is running a little lean but it cant be too far out...
Code:
Friday 6 March 2009 07:13:13
1ML 906 032 A 1.8l R4/5VT 02 0001
Group A: '002
RPM Load Inj Mass Flow inj duty %
TIME
MARKER STAMP /min % ms g/s
1113.93 2120 13.5 0 5.56 0
1114.33 2040 13.5 0 5.22 0
1114.74 2000 15 1.7 5.86 2.833333333
1115.13 2000 37.6 4.76 22.03 7.933333333
1115.54 2080 63.9 6.12 28.69 10.608
1115.94 2160 60.2 5.1 24.75 9.18
1116.34 2200 46.6 4.08 16.17 7.48
1116.76 2280 46.6 4.42 21.47 8.398
1117.16 2320 58.6 5.1 28.61 9.86
1117.56 2440 62.4 5.44 30.83 11.06133333
1117.96 2480 63.9 5.78 33.19 11.94533333
1118.36 2600 65.4 5.78 33.86 12.52333333
1118.76 2720 74.4 6.8 40.78 15.41333333
1119.16 2840 86.5 8.16 49.19 19.312
1119.57 2960 94 8.16 54.22 20.128
1119.97 3120 96.2 8.84 57.83 22.984
1120.37 3280 97 8.84 62.19 24.16266667
1120.77 3440 103.8 9.18 70.56 26.316
1121.17 3640 109 9.52 76.47 28.87733333
1121.57 3800 103 9.52 78 30.14666667
1121.97 3960 95.5 8.84 72.61 29.172
1122.39 4120 92.5 8.16 77.61 28.016
1122.79 4280 102.3 9.52 89.25 33.95466667
1123.19 4520 150.4 14.28 162.31 53.788
1123.59 4760 180.5 18.36 166.42 72.828
1123.99 5120 178.9 18.02 173.67 76.88533333
1124.39 5360 175.9 17.68 177.03 78.97066667
1124.79 5600 169.2 18.02 179.31 84.09333333
1125.2 5800 163.2 15.98 184.58 77.23666667
1125.6 6040 163.9 16.32 182.14 82.144
1126 6200 141.4 12.58 180.94 64.99666667
1126.4 6400 148.9 14.28 183.08 76.16
1126.82 6560 144.4 15.64 183.33 85.49866667
1127.22 6760 122.6 12.24 181.56 68.952
1127.62 6880 146.6 14.62 184.61 83.82133333
1128.02 6600 12.8 1.36 0 7.48
1128.42 5360 88.7 9.52 119.25 42.52266667Similar threads
