Probee's GT2871R LCR

[probee]

Ok thanks dave I don't have excuse for removing fuel at the min as I need to look at the logs again from last night (I'm on my phone not my laptop), I'm sure there was a run that was rich so I tried removing some. Nothing seemed to make a huge difference anyway... Will the ECU always try and pull back to requested or are we actually moving the requested when we change settings?

I'm still very confused about the whole burning methanol thing and it may take a while to get my head around it... Your calcs in your thread are amazing but I still don't understand why they recommend a 50% mix. If it's a volume thing can't we just run smaller nozzles?

I know you know what you are talking I'm just trying to answer some questions for myself.

I'll try to get out tonight and do a few more logs.

 

[DPJ]

Yes, on 031 fueling (actual/requested) it will try and meet requested. On 115 boost (requested/actual) it will only pull back if it is beyond a certain tolerance.

The reason they bandy the 50/50 mix round so much is that a 51/49 mix is flammable. Additionally, Snow are flogging Boostjuice @ 49/51 so it's in their interest to 'support' their product.............. Hell everyone wants to run 10/10ths if they can. It's simpler to believe it's happening than look for the evidence it isn't. (That isn't aimed at you.)

Wilko is running 50/50 and burning it all - he's got a map that suits it. We'll be lucky to get that close. I'm interested to see if your Stage 2 is more friendly to increasing the timing with wmi than my stage 3 is.....

 

[DPJ]

Another thing that may help in understanding.

Use a high octane fuel (ie Optimax + octane booster) and you can advance the timing significantly all the way up through the rev range, gaining significant power.

Inject methanol into your charge and you get a very useful cooling effect and you can increase the timing to burn it too. But you can't inject it too low down the rev range or it'll quench your combustion (full stop). Too much methanol further up the range and it'll quench your charge unless the timing is advanced sufficiently.

In most cases I think you have to select the best compromise with wmi, unless your car is custom mapped for it.

 

[Skorchio]

WoW this is getting very in depth and hands on as there are so many variable. So basicly to get the best out of wmi you need a custom map?

 

[DPJ]

.............So basicly to get the best out of wmi you need a custom map?

Imo, to get the very best out of it, yes.
It's great as just a charge cooling aid, though. (I'd like to bet you could run an unmapped 180 1.8T with wmi and without an intercooler....)

 

[probee]

Yes, on 031 fueling (actual/requested) it will try and meet requested. On 115 boost (requested/actual) it will only pull back if it is beyond a certain tolerance.

The reason they bandy the 50/50 mix round so much is that a 51/49 mix is flammable. Additionally, Snow are flogging Boostjuice @ 49/51 so it's in their interest to 'support' their product.............. Hell everyone wants to run 10/10ths if they can. It's simpler to believe it's happening than look for the evidence it isn't. (That isn't aimed at you.)

Wilko is running 50/50 and burning it all - he's got a map that suits it. We'll be lucky to get that close. I'm interested to see if your Stage 2 is more friendly to increasing the timing with wmi than my stage 3 is.....

Another thing that may help in understanding.

Use a high octane fuel (ie Optimax + octane booster) and you can advance the timing significantly all the way up through the rev range, gaining significant power.

Inject methanol into your charge and you get a very useful cooling effect and you can increase the timing to burn it too. But you can't inject it too low down the rev range or it'll quench your combustion (full stop). Too much methanol further up the range and it'll quench your charge unless the timing is advanced sufficiently.

In most cases I think you have to select the best compromise with wmi, unless your car is custom mapped for it.

why does it seem like i have a mountain of logs and changes to make, there needs to be more hours in the day.

ok, it makes sense why they would recommend a 50/50 mix. how can we be 100% sure we are burning it all? we should see see a change in AFR?

ive been out tonight and run some logs without the WMI.. i think im going to call it day until i get my MAF sorted. im pulling big CF's on a freezing cold night when logs from just a few weeks ago showed pretty much zero (also without WMI)....

these logs are with the fueling returned to zero and WMI off

Wednesday	4	March	2009	20:59:43						
1ML 906 032 A  		1.8l R4/5VT      02 0001								
										
	Group A:	'003				Group B:	'020			
		RPM	Mass Flow	Load	Ign. Timing		Idle Stabilization	Idle Stabilization	Idle Stabilization	Idle Stabilization
	TIME					TIME				
MARKER	STAMP	 /min	 g/s	%	 °BTDC	STAMP	 CF	 CF	 CF	 CF
	68.88	1400	20.97	24.7	20.3	68.5	0	1.5	0	1.5
	69.68	1600	22.22	21.6	23.3	69.28	0	1.5	0	1.5
	70.5	1720	13.25	11	30.8	70.1	0	1.5	0	1.5
	71.32	1880	18.78	14.1	30	70.9	0	1.5	0	1.5
	72.12	2000	18.83	14.1	30.8	71.72	0	1.5	0	1.5
	72.92	2200	35.28	27.5	25.5	72.52	0	1.5	0	1.5
	73.72	2520	56.56	99.6	23.3	73.32	0	0	0	0
	74.53	2960	98.42	100	15	74.13	0	0	0	0
	75.33	3600	115.86	100	12.8	74.93	3	3	0	3
	76.13	4200	146.86	100	15.8	75.73	3	3	0	3
	76.95	4800	158.44	100	12.8	76.53	2.3	2.3	3	3
	77.75	5320	175.06	100	12.8	77.35	1.5	1.5	3	2.3
	78.56	5800	175.11	100	15	78.15	1.5	1.5	3	2.3
	79.36	6200	179.19	99.6	18	78.95	0.8	0.8	2.3	1.5
	80.16	6240	0	5.9	7.5	79.76	0.8	0.8	2.3	1.5
	80.96	5200	171.58	100	15.8	80.56	0	0	0	0
	81.76	5480	175.06	100	12.8	81.36	3	3	3	3
	82.58	5720	174.25	100	12	82.18	3	3	3	3
	83.39	5960	179.78	100	15	82.98	2.3	2.3	2.3	2.3
	84.19	6200	179.19	100	16.5	83.79	2.3	2.3	2.3	2.3
	84.99	6400	180.67	100	19.5	84.59	2.3	2.3	2.3	2.3
	85.79	5680	0	9.8	5.3	85.39	0	0	0	0
	86.59	5240	173.67	100	9.8	86.19	0.8	3	1.5	3
	87.39	5400	175.36	100	7.5	86.99	6.8	6	4.5	6
	88.21	5520	172.53	100	10.5	87.81	6.8	6	4.5	6
	89.01	5680	171.39	100	8.3	88.61	6	5.3	3.8	5.3
	89.81	5800	169.11	100	12.8	89.41	6	5.3	3.8	5.3
										
										
	124.41	3160	48.53	35.7	17.3	124.01	0	0	0	0
	125.21	3520	137.81	100	17.3	124.81	0	0	0	0
	126.03	4160	142.61	100	8.3	125.61	0	0	0	3
	126.83	4760	156.67	100	10.5	126.43	0	0	3	3
	127.64	5240	170.08	100	11.3	127.24	3	6	3	8.3
	128.43	5680	176.25	100	9	128.03	3	6	3	8.3
	129.24	6120	174.81	100	11.3	128.84	2.3	6	2.3	7.5
	130.04	6040	0	6.7	7.5	129.64	2.3	4.5	2.3	7.5
	130.84	5120	170.56	100	12	130.44	0	0	0	3
	131.66	5360	175.36	100	12.8	131.24	6	6	3	8.3
	132.46	5600	172.06	100	10.5	132.06	6	6	3	8.3
	133.26	5840	173.97	100	12	132.86	5.3	5.3	3	7.5
	134.06	6040	171.97	100	14.3	133.66	5.3	5.3	2.3	7.5
	134.87	5800	5.25	7.5	7.5	134.47	5.3	5.3	2.3	7.5
	135.67	5000	167.11	98	19.5	135.27	0.8	0.8	0	3
	136.47	4960	5.08	8.6	4.5	136.07	3.8	6.8	6	7.5

Wednesday	4	March	2009	21:05:06				
1ML 906 032 A  		1.8l R4/5VT      02 0001						
								
	Group A:	'115				Group B:	'031	
		RPM	Load	Absolute Pres.	Absolute Pres.		Lambda Factor	Lambda Factor
	TIME					TIME		
MARKER	STAMP	 /min	%	 mbar	 mbar	STAMP		
	31.37	1960	15	970	980	31.77	1.031	0.953
	32.19	1920	18	970	980	32.59	0.93	1
	32.99	1960	34.6	970	980	33.39	0.969	1
	33.8	2160	60.2	970	1030	34.2	0.992	1
	34.6	2560	69.9	1210	1210	35	1.008	1
	35.4	3040	84.2	1270	1320	35.8	0.969	1
	36.2	3640	97.7	1450	1320	36.62	0.945	1
	37.02	4400	142.1	2420	2070	37.42	0.891	0.899
	37.82	5600	164.7	2340	2310	38.22	0.875	0.867
	38.62	6400	151.9	2190	2140	39.02	0.828	0.922
								
	48.28	3160	66.2	1310	1010	48.68	0.883	0.984
	49.08	3520	141.4	2390	2050	49.48	0.906	0.906
	49.88	4160	182.7	2460	2510	50.3	0.86	0.867
	50.7	4760	173.7	2440	2430	51.1	0.883	0.86
	51.5	5280	163.9	2380	2390	51.9	0.836	0.86
	52.29	5760	161.7	2300	2220	52.71	0.828	0.86
	53.11	6160	154.1	2210	2180	53.51	0.828	0.86
	53.91	6520	140.6	2160	2230	54.33	0.836	0.86
	54.73	6560	51.1	970	2270	55.11	0.821	0.922
	55.51	5320	115.8	2270	1720	55.93	0.906	0.883
	56.33	5560	157.9	2300	2320	56.74	0.867	0.86
	57.13	5800	155.6	2180	2330	57.53	0.86	0.86
	57.93	6000	151.9	2100	2270	58.33	0.821	0.86
	58.74	6200	149.6	2040	2170	59.14	0.828	0.86
	59.56	6360	136.8	2020	2090	59.94	0.914	0.914
	60.34	5600	12.8	970	1250	60.74	0.93	0.945

after these runs i had a look at 32

Wednesday	4	March	2009	21:16:51	
1ML 906 032 A  		1.8l R4/5VT      02 0001			
					
	Group A:	'032			
		Lambda	Lambda	Bin. Bits	Bin. Bits
	TIME				
MARKER	STAMP	%	%		
	0	-0.4	7	        	        
	0.4	-0.4	7	        	        
	0.8	-0.4	7	        	        
	1.2	-0.4	7	        	        
	1.61	-0.4	7	        	        
	2	-0.4	7

thats showing it being quite lean isnt it (but within tolerance), the logs above dont show that do they? i should add that i did a TBA reset before the first run tonight

 

[DPJ]

Starts out not too bad - but then you've got heat building up giving the CFs. Yes, I'd say you've got a Maf problem there. Sort that and you should be able to move on.

 

[probee]

thanks for your help again Dave...i now have the problem of removing the security screws from the new MAF sensor in the carpark of a seat garage because i have an aluminium MAF housing hehe should be fun..... i wonder if the techs in the garage will have a security bit

 

[DPJ]

thanks for your help again Dave...i now have the problem of removing the security screws from the new MAF sensor in the carpark of a seat garage because i have an aluminium MAF housing hehe should be fun..... i wonder if the techs in the garage will have a security bit

A small flat screwdriver wedged into the screw often does the business.

 

[mrwookie]

i now have the problem of removing the security screws from the new MAF sensor in the carpark of a seat garage because i have an aluminium MAF housing

Serves you right for being a flash git doesn't it mate............ He he he

 

[probee]

A small flat screwdriver wedged into the screw often does the business.

yeah i think that did the trick when i removed them ages ago, hopefully i wont mark them enough for them to get the arse

 

[Damoegan]

Is it a torx with the little security pin it the middle?

 

[probee]

Is it a torx with the little security pin it the middle?

sort of... i think a torx bit has 6 points, this has 5

 

[Damoegan]

sort of... i think a torx bit has 6 points, this has 5

Ah, ok mate.

 

[mrwookie]

When you getting your new MAF Aaron??

 

[probee]

When you getting your new MAF Aaron??

depends if they have one in stock.... Friday at the earliest as i would have to either take the Leon to work or take the MAF off now so i can take it wiith me tomorrow, which isnt going to happen.... its bloody cold out there!!

 

[DPJ]

yeah i think that did the trick when i removed them ages ago, hopefully i wont mark them enough for them to get the arse

Don't get me wrong. I bought the correct bit but I dropped it and lost it the first time I used it.....

 

[mrwookie]

Think I've got a bit to fit if your really that bothered or just gonna go screwdriver route?

 

[probee]

Don't get me wrong. I bought the correct bit but I dropped it and lost it the first time I used it.....

lol how many parts have i dropped onto the engine tray never to be seen again... where do they disappear to?

where did you find your bit Dave?

Think I've got a bit to fit if your really that bothered or just gonna go screwdriver route?

erm.... i dont think ill be able to get over to you in time Ed. where did you get yours from too?

 

[DPJ]

lol how many parts have i dropped onto the engine tray never to be seen again... where do they disappear to?

where did you find your bit Dave?

Oh I never found it again.......... or a lovely stubby 10mm spanner, or.......