Golf R and Leon Cupra (my thoughts)

[Deleted member 103408]

Not 100% but with tyres it’s 99% there. Problem is you can’t complete my disable the traction control.

@theoldboy can you completely disable traction with the Revo ecu update?

No the Revo ECU Update is all about power tempered with Temperature control (if its cold or hot then you don't get full power) and obviously gearbox. You still have the standard SEAT Controls that still work so you can turn if off, I also understand that its possible to use VCDS/OBD11 to make this permy but I have read that there is still some traction control even then. Not had enough time / Skill to drive with it off yet but its another thing on my list to look at.

 

[Damo H]

No the Revo ECU Update is all about power tempered with Temperature control (if its cold or hot then you don't get full power) and obviously gearbox. You still have the standard SEAT Controls that still work so you can turn if off, I also understand that its possible to use VCDS/OBD11 to make this permy but I have read that there is still some traction control even then. Not had enough time / Skill to drive with it off yet but its another thing on my list to look at.

Shame. Yeah turning off traction control isn’t possible on there It’s only the stability control that gets turned off. Not so much an issue with the Carbon and 4WD I suppose.

 

[Janusz]

Are you guys sure that it cannot be disabled? When I press short I get like sport esp when I hold longer I get esp off message. With off it burns the tires with no control also seems to weight drift when I push it too with no issue.
Can be it is my custom stage 2 software.

 

[Damo H]

Are you guys sure that it cannot be disabled? When I press short I get like sport esp when I hold longer I get esp off message. With off it burns the tires with no control also seems to weight drift when I push it too with no issue.
Can be it is my custom stage 2 software.

ESP isn’t traction control, it’s the stability control.

 

[Janusz]

ESP isn’t traction control, it’s the stability control.

That is why I wrote it burns the tires when i get esp off completely. To me it seems all systems except abs are off.

 

[Damo H]

That is why I wrote it burns the tires when i get esp off completely. To me it seems all systems except abs are off.

But you said yourself you’ve had a remap

 

[Deleted member 103408]

You can turn off ASR (Traction control) using cars menu's and there are several things you can turn off using OBD11.

However I seem to recall you cant disable permy only each time you start the car.

There are also some threads on here (which I have still not confirmed) that say even though you have done this there is still some safty stuff left on but it certainly does reduce the amount of traction control.

 

[Jaco2k]

Bit off-topic, but I can also turn off completely ESP, as others mentioned - goes from On to ESP sport to ESP off and that is without coding anything on the car.
One of the things that still stays on is the XDS control, which needs to be set to off if you really want to get rid of all the electronic aids.
I think there might be a few more, like the braking stability settings, for instance.

 

[SteA]

Tyres and the torque arm insert clearly make all the difference? The FWD Cupra is already as fast as you ever want to go on public roads, it’s an insanity wagon, you can be comfortably deep into three figure speeds on wet, bumpy, twisty roads; 4wd might gain a bit on traction but it’s going to be negligible until you are well north of 400 bhp and personally, I like the feedback. Even on wet tracks, Golf R’s have just been rolling chicanes so far, 375 bhp definitely doesn’t need four driven wheels to go very quickly. Judging by track behaviour, Golf R’s are carrying a lot more weight...

I’ve been driving our JCW recently (with a miserly 260 bhp) but took my car this morning, 3 degrees across wet and greasy country roads and it felt utterly bonkers. I’m not sure who would want to go faster than the car is happy to do except on a closed rally course.

Clearly, if it’s drag racing then 4wd is the way forward

 

[Damo H]

Tyres and the torque arm insert clearly make all the difference? The FWD Cupra is already as fast as you ever want to go on public roads, it’s an insanity wagon, you can be comfortably deep into three figure speeds on wet, bumpy, twisty roads; 4wd might gain a bit on traction but it’s going to be negligible until you are well north of 400 bhp and personally, I like the feedback. Even on wet tracks, Golf R’s have just been rolling chicanes so far, 375 bhp definitely doesn’t need four driven wheels to go very quickly. Judging by track behaviour, Golf R’s are carrying a lot more weight...

I’ve been driving our JCW recently (with a miserly 260 bhp) but took my car this morning, 3 degrees across wet and greasy country roads and it felt utterly bonkers. I’m not sure who would want to go faster than the car is happy to do except on a closed rally course.

Clearly, if it’s drag racing then 4wd is the way forward

It would be interesting to compare a Golf GTi ClubSport S with the Cupra (maybe R).

If you compare the weights of the R Estate and Cupra ST trim you get an idea of how lardy the Golf R is irrespective of 4WD, no doubt due to its extra ‘refinement’.

‘Official’ Quoted weights with driver:
1440kg Cupra 300ST Manual
1466kg Cupra 300ST DSG (not in UK)
1545kg Cupra 300ST DSG 4 drive
1593kg Golf R 310 DSG

So the 4WD system only accounts for half the added weight.

Looking at the 5 door model:

1322kg Cupra 300 Manual
1421kg Cupra 300 DSG
1506kg Golf R 310 Manual
1526kg Golf R 310 DSG

That extra weight no doubt makes up for the extra power.

Now a Clubsport S that’s 1375kg....

Just for thought.

 

[SteA]

It would be interesting to compare a Golf GTi ClubSport S with the Cupra (maybe R).

If you compare the weights of the R Estate and Cupra ST trim you get an idea of how lardy the Golf R is irrespective of 4WD, no doubt due to its extra ‘refinement’.

‘Official’ Quoted weights with driver:
1440kg Cupra 300ST Manual
1466kg Cupra 300ST DSG (not in UK)
1545kg Cupra 300ST DSG 4 drive
1593kg Golf R 310 DSG

So the 4WD system only accounts for half the added weight.

Looking at the 5 door model:

1322kg Cupra 300 Manual
1421kg Cupra 300 DSG
1506kg Golf R 310 Manual
1526kg Golf R 310 DSG

That extra weight no doubt makes up for the extra power.

Now a Clubsport S that’s 1375kg....

Just for thought.

Did you see the actual weights that Evo measured? If I recall correctly, wasn’t the actual weight of even the FWD Golf GTI over 100 kg more than the Cupra 280 and more than it should have been? Does anyone still have that article?

 

[Damo H]

Did you see the actual weights that Evo measured? If I recall correctly, wasn’t the actual weight of even the FWD Golf GTI over 100 kg more than the Cupra 280 and more than it should have been? Does anyone still have that article?

Yeah those weights for Cupras are supposed to be with driver, the golf ones don’t say. So could be heavier still.

So the perceived, Seat aren’t allowed the extra 10hp that the golf has, is probably more down to the fact they don’t want the cupra being so much faster than the Golf. But the Cupra R, in the UK it’s manual and has 310, so except 0-60 it should muller a Golf R

 

[Lmbarrett83]

From the VW forum...
Regarding track performance.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk

 

[TheSwede]

VW Golf R manual 300 4wd 2014 35000 miles/55000 km vs Seat Leon Cupra R manual 310 2wd 2018 new car.

https://forums.seatcupra.net/index.php?threads/new-cupra-user.447220/

A little review after a few test occasions yesterday on mixed road types in each car with two different drivers, me as well as my son.

Both cars without engine tuning. Golf R in this case has a CTS intake + CTS elbove inlet pipe, no other pure "performance" changes.

Golf R is as you know 4wd, which makes it much faster from 0-62 mph, 0-100 km/h than the Cupra R due to the grip. Up and running Cupra R is faster. It feels good from the low revs like Golf R, though noticeably better power than the Golf R 300. This applies as long as the road is dry. Cupra LSD (Limited Slip Differential) works very well. It is adjustable from the menu. Now the Golf R is not a 310 hp as the 2018 version is. Probably Cupra R is still faster than a Golf R 310 2018. For Golf R 2019, the power output is decreased to 300 hp again (WLTP certification have impact).

Both cars have DCC (adjustable shock-absorbers). Cupra R is noticeably stiffer in the suspension. The steering is more direct in Cupra R, more agile than in Golf R. The aggressive Camber angle in Cupra R certainly affects the steering control. Cupra R is slightly lighter, which is noticeable of side wise movements.

The noise level in the cabin is quite similar in both cars. The golf R is a lot older but it’s free from rattles. That goes for Cupra R to. Golf R has a permanent open outer exhaust pipes (VCDS tweak of flappers) and an open CTS intake. It would have been quieter than Cupra without intake /flapper mod. Cupra with the engine in "Cupra" mode also offers “pops and bangs” from the exhaust system during gear changes. The latter was highly appreciated by the younger driver!!

Infotainment is equivalent when comparing the same year model of Golf and Leon Cupra (e.g our new Golf Alltrack 2018). The "BeatsAudio" package delivers very good in Cupra R, ThumbUp, so to speak!

A number of details are simpler on Cupra R than Golf R but also on the contrary, better on Cupra R.

We haven’t been able to hardest the brakes because of the humid autumn weather with +3c above freezing point. They are good on both cars. Golf R has 340 mm discs with mono calipers, Cupra R has 370 mm discs (Audi printed on them) with 4-piston Brembo calipers. One can for sure assume that the Cupra brakes can withstand more!

Notification, this Golf R has drilled 2 section front discs from Golf ClubSport S. Don’t make any big difference on the public road from original discs.

Both cars have high level of the interior standard. The multifunction wheel in the Golf has better support for phone + other details that are for the benefit of the Golf.

LED headlights are good at both Leon and Golf in the latest model year. The older Golf R which we relate to in this comparison have xenon.

The feeling of the bodywork, e.g. of door closing sound, are similar. More weight in tailgate on the Golf than the Leon because the “boot sill” is much higher in Leon. You have to lift your bags, not of any importance.

The conclusion is that Golf R-14 still holds what it promised at launch 2013. It is more of a daily driver car. The Cupra R 2018 is a bit more track day oriented but works out as a d-d car to, sportier with the pros and cons of it. I’m very pleased with the Cupra R so far !

Since the Cupra has rather few miles on the odo, we haven’t tested the output at full revs…. It has to wait until it has passed about 750 miles.

/Peter

 

[Deleted member 103408]

Thanks very much for that, nice balanced review.

 

[N8KOW]

It would be interesting to compare a Golf GTi ClubSport S with the Cupra (maybe R).

If you compare the weights of the R Estate and Cupra ST trim you get an idea of how lardy the Golf R is irrespective of 4WD, no doubt due to its extra ‘refinement’.

‘Official’ Quoted weights with driver:
1440kg Cupra 300ST Manual
1466kg Cupra 300ST DSG (not in UK)
1545kg Cupra 300ST DSG 4 drive
1593kg Golf R 310 DSG

So the 4WD system only accounts for half the added weight.

Looking at the 5 door model:

1322kg Cupra 300 Manual
1421kg Cupra 300 DSG
1506kg Golf R 310 Manual
1526kg Golf R 310 DSG

That extra weight no doubt makes up for the extra power.

Now a Clubsport S that’s 1375kg....

Just for thought.

I remember parkers telling me the Golf 7R DSG 5 door was 1360kgs approx..

 

[Tara]

The Cupra R looks lovely and your very lucky indeed , I really like the Golf R as a car but for me for now im really happy with my Sub 8.

 

[Damo H]

I remember parkers telling me the Golf 7R DSG 5 door was 1360kgs approx..

Nope, not even close. Unless they got it mixed up with a Mk 2 lol

 

[N8KOW]

Nope, not even close. Unless they got it mixed up with a Mk 2 lol

Wheres a good place to gain car weights from then? As I've been using parkers since I was 18. It told me the Golf 7R 5 door DSG was approx 1360 and my GLA 45 which I had after was approx 1545 or something, and that felt about right, the GLA was a fat car in comparison with the golf...

 

[Damo H]

Wheres a good place to gain car weights from then? As I've been using parkers since I was 18. It told me the Golf 7R 5 door DSG was approx 1360 and my GLA 45 which I had after was approx 1545 or something, and that felt about right, the GLA was a fat car in comparison with the golf...

I've generally gone with the official brochure. However this time for the golf, as its not currently on there as they update their site, I ended up on a Golf Forum where they were talking about the weight and how much the DSG added and the 3 door vs the 5 door. You'd think they would want to say its lighter than that.