What did you and your MK2 do today?

[Faceless]

so what did it make after

Hi Andrew, taken straight from the printout - power figures:

Stock (Run 1)
Motor Power: 193.2 BHP
Engine Torque: 300.2 lb/ft @ 2536 rpm

Stage 1 (Run 2)
Engine Power: 210.8 BHP
Engine Torque: 336.4 lb/ft @ 2536 rpm.

^ This is pretty much the upper limits you could achieve from a Stage 1, on the PD170 engine, with no additional margin. So im happy the car achieved the max it could.

Plus as people say, the response just feels smoother too, through the gears! This is backed up by the 'AFTER' line on the graph being a smoother curve (compared to the slightly more pointy 'Before' curve).

 

[WeeG]

Hi Andrew, taken straight from the printout - power figures:

Stock (Run 1)
Motor Power: 193.2 BHP
Engine Torque: 300.2 lb/ft @ 2536 rpm

Stage 1 (Run 2)
Engine Power: 210.8 BHP
Engine Torque: 336.4 lb/ft @ 2536 rpm.

^ This is pretty much the upper limits you could achieve from a Stage 1, on the PD170 engine, with no additional margin. So im happy the car achieved the max it could.

Plus as people say, the response just feels smoother too, through the gears! This is backed up by the 'AFTER' line on the graph being a smoother curve (compared to the slightly more pointy 'Before' curve).

YOur stock run is inaccurate. YOu have made an extra 17.6 peak bhp and an extra 36.2 lbs ft of torque. Soooooo in actual fact your car will more than likely be running 185bhpish and 286 lbs ft of torque

 

[Faceless]

YOur stock run is inaccurate. YOu have made an extra 17.6 peak bhp and an extra 36.2 lbs ft of torque. Soooooo in actual fact your car will more than likely be running 185bhpish and 286 lbs ft of torque

Interesting. But my readings are exactly whats printed on the Dyno sheet, before and after. So you think Stock, the car was more likely around 185bhp? How could the Stock figures have got recorded wrong (based on your theory)?

That would make the actual gain (increase) after the Stage 1 remap even more substantial, if the Stock figure was actually lower than the 193.2 recorded.

 

[AndrewJB]

I agree with BIGG, The rollers are reading above

For Example

PD170 Book figure 168, On there rollers 193


So if i was to run my LCR (in stock mode)
Book figure 265 , So it should make 290 on there rollers



if you look back through Mine and BIGG's Readers Ride threads for our old PD170's you will see we spent alot of time and money tuning the PD170's and know what they should acheive at what Stages's

 

[WeeG]

Interesting. But my readings are exactly whats printed on the Dyno sheet, before and after. So you think Stock, the car was more likely around 185bhp? How could the Stock figures have got recorded wrong (based on your theory)?

That would make the actual gain (increase) after the Stage 1 remap even more substantial, if the Stock figure was actually lower than the 193.2 recorded.

The figures I stated are your remap figures. You always look at the gains made. If you put your car on a reliable Dyno you will see it will make "around" the 170 mark or just under

 

[Jmerrie]

I agree with BIGG, The rollers are reading above

For Example

PD170 Book figure 168, On there rollers 193


So if i was to run my LCR (in stock mode)
Book figure 265 , So it should make 290 on there rollers



if you look back through Mine and BIGG's Readers Ride threads for our old PD170's you will see we spent alot of time and money tuning the PD170's and know what they should acheive at what Stages's

But not all rollers are the same.
We have had this debate before over my LC. Stock 240, showed on the rollers at 243.7. So on the base that the over compensate i said last time that it was putting out 310 so reduced it to 307 based on 240 stock.

Also the same with my CR170 ... Dyno showed it at just over 171 so when it was custom mapped and showed 214 (I trust the to be true).
plus with everything that was said before it cost me for two additional dyno runs (It is abut the power gains over the actual top end)!!

 

[Faceless]

I agree with BIGG, The rollers are reading above

For Example

PD170 Book figure 168, On there rollers 193


So if i was to run my LCR (in stock mode)
Book figure 265 , So it should make 290 on there rollers



if you look back through Mine and BIGG's Readers Ride threads for our old PD170's you will see we spent alot of time and money tuning the PD170's and know what they should acheive at what Stages's

So if you are saying that 25 bhp is being added to every one of P-Torques Dyno runs, that means my car, after Stage 1, is at 185bhp !

Which would be incorrect, as we know Stage 1 on a PD170 should return a touch over 200bhp. That stands for every Tuner who touches this engine, with a Stage 1.

Plus 185bhp is too big a difference. Meaning I've only achieved an increase of 17 (SEVENTEEN) BHP, over the factory 168bhp figure (on paper). Meaning something is seriously wrong?

P-Torque are mapping cars day in, day out. Surely this cant mean all cars passing over their rollers are exaggerated by 25bhp. Plus, 168bhp is only the book figure, every engine is different, from one to the next (PD170). The way the car has been run over the years, the fuel put into it, motorway or only town driving.....

I would be happy to have a run on another set of rollers, for further clarification (but im not willing to have to pay for it, just to prove these figures wrong).

I have full faith in P-Torque and their sincerity, therefore cant believe there are failures in their Dyno facilities / my remap.

 

[WeeG]

So if you are saying that 25 bhp is being added to every one of P-Torques Dyno runs, that means my car, after Stage 1, is at 185bhp !

Which would be incorrect, as we know Stage 1 on a PD170 should return a touch over 200bhp. That stands for every Tuner who touches this engine, with a Stage 1.

Plus 185bhp is too big a difference. Meaning I've only achieved an increase of 17 (SEVENTEEN) BHP, over the factory 168bhp figure (on paper). Meaning something is seriously wrong?

P-Torque are mapping cars day in, day out. Surely this cant mean all cars passing over their rollers are exaggerated by 25bhp. Plus, 168bhp is only the book figure, every engine is different, from one to the next (PD170). The way the car has been run over the years, the fuel put into it, motorway or only town driving.....

I would be happy to have a run on another set of rollers, for further clarification (but im not willing to have to pay for it, just to prove these figures wrong)

I have full faith in P-Torque and their sincerity, therefore cant believe there are failures in their Dyno facilities / my remap.

My car stage 1 on independent rollers was supposed to be "205" bhp. The rollers ate known for being accurate. And it made 177 bhp. The PD 170 "will not" make 200 bhp with a dpf in place without serious related particle filter issues. I spent thousands realising this. And it is one of the reasons Revo dropped the pd170. And a lot of other tuners won't touch them. The siemens ecu is a different language to a lot of tuners in itself. Trust me!

Your graph looks good. Put your car on a good Dyno.

 

[WeeG]

The car won't magic up an extra 20bhp in reality. Tuners always quote figures. It would be frightening if we all used hub dynos

 

[Jmerrie]

I would be happy to have a run on another set of rollers, for further clarification (but im not willing to have to pay for it, just to prove these figures wrong).

As per my post above, i paid for 2 indipendant dyno runs to give me the same figures.

I am sure that Andrew has good intentions and from previous dealings has some good knowledge but trying to argue everones remap figures is not gaining you any respect.

Every engine is different we know that on a leon:
TDI 2.0 Sage 1 ~210BHP
Cupra Stage 1 ~308BHP
Cupra R Stage 1 ~317-320BHP

With every engine being different you are going to get the od one which will dip in perfomance and possibly produce 5% less, but there are some that will peak and produce 5% more.

 

[Faceless]

I do respect what you guys say, and I also respect the experiences (and pains?) you've both gone through with your PD Leons - of which, I've read alot through this forum.

I am more than happy to run my car somewhere else, to see what it returns, but am not in the position to have to pay for it, to prove any point (im over £300 out of pocket already) - but then isnt this often the debate (Dyno figures that differ, from one Tuner to the next?).

At the end of the day, I've been (I am) very happy with the Service provided by P-Torque and the results in the way the car drives is very impressive (compared to stock - how it was before).

So from that perspective, Im happy. Note Im also not so bothered about running bigger BHP figures over the next person - for me I wanted the map to put back in some fun and interest in my car (I was so close to selling up not so long ago) - so I can say I'm happy with the outcome.

 

[WeeG]

As per my post above, i paid for 2 indipendant dyno runs to give me the same figures.

I am sure that Andrew has good intentions and from previous dealings has some good knowledge but trying to argue everones remap figures is not gaining you any respect.

Every engine is different we know that on a leon:
TDI 2.0 Sage 1 ~210BHP
Cupra Stage 1 ~308BHP
Cupra R Stage 1 ~317-320BHP

With every engine being different you are going to get the od one which will dip in perfomance and possibly produce 5% less, but there are some that will peak and produce 5% more.

Don't want this to turn into a silly argument. Read into what you want. Having been encaptured by these claims. And tuners dynos showing the 200+ bhp power increases "on the PD170" it is not a realistic possibility. The CR is a cleaner burning engine. I still believe 214bhp to be a bold claim. These engines are absolutely balls out on the CR at 225 and smoking like my old car.

 

[LC_15]

Wasnt going to reveal this until GTi inters but hey.

After looking at some cheap, but beneficial mods I decided on this, A Rocker Cover paint job.

I think the bare engine itself looks brilliant, so i decided on a White cover.

Also Carbon wrapped the top of the Coils.

here are the pics below:

Hope you like.

 

[Jmerrie]

Awesome Job ... I do like that!!

 

[benj1989]

Got driven back from gatwick in my mk2 then rewarded it by buy new mats and golf gti pedals and LED side light bulbs. Can't wait for postie

Sent from my LG-P920 using Tapatalk 2

 

[LC_15]

Awesome Job ... I do like that!!

Cheers glad its come out how i wanted it.

 

[AndrewJB]

I am sure that Andrew has good intentions and from previous dealings has some good knowledge but trying to argue everones remap figures is not gaining you any respect.

im not arguing everybodys remap figures

Im simply stating that when it comes to the PD170, it is alot different than any other PD or CR engine, most tuners will simply say add an extra 40bhp on top of stock and thats what we expect a stage 1 to make.. it doesnt work like that with the PD170

Me and BIGG are actually trying to help you guys, we have been there got the T-Shirt!

I generally believed that when i had my PD170 Stage 2 DPF Deleted by JBS, that it was running the 235.5bhp that they quoted, Then wondered why cars that where of a similar power output left me for dust, When i then had it rolling roaded on two other sets of Rolling Roads it made 205 and 206bhp. i even argued with a chap on here called Kilner that mine was running 235bhp, we met up and went for a drive and he left me easily in his DPF Delete car that was done by S.H.A.R.K


i think in the future im going to step away from these PD170 threads

 

[AndrewJB]

Wasnt going to reveal this until GTi inters but hey.

After looking at some cheap, but beneficial mods I decided on this, A Rocker Cover paint job.

I think the bare engine itself looks brilliant, so i decided on a White cover.

Also Carbon wrapped the top of the Coils.

here are the pics below:

Hope you like.

That looks tops! bit more publicity for APR haha

 

[Jmerrie]

Don't want this to turn into a silly argument. Read into what you want. Having been encaptured by these claims. And tuners dynos showing the 200+ bhp power increases "on the PD170" it is not a realistic possibility. The CR is a cleaner burning engine. I still believe 214bhp to be a bold claim. These engines are absolutely balls out on the CR at 225 and smoking like my old car.

If an average of 3 runs on Dyno 1 gave my just over 173 (Stock)
And then an average of 3 runs on the same dyno was over 210 ... then the same on 2 others, it is not wrong in my eyes.

As i said before, when i am down at Revo i will meet up and Dyno it on your machine.

 

[LC_15]

That looks tops! bit more publicity for APR haha

well its the company that tune my car so people know what the caar is running but yeah well happy with the results.