OEM or Big Turbo?

[PhilW]

I cant see how any OEM+ car wil keep up with mine when im finished with my setup. The only thing mine really lacks on track now is power up the rev range which is where it lives.

I come on, all the people in this thread has had a dable into 3 figures which is where BT (and below 3 figures) will own anything.

Id take the same torque as what i got now further up the rev range all day long thank you very much.

 

[ibizacupra]

Savage in my mind, granted I'm still trying to get used to it.

Bill, you wouldn't drive your car day to day?
i know your not 21 any more but what's the point in having all that power with no means for using it.
ow many BT FWD cars are built to go on the track?
Even my so called track/road car will only see about 5 % usage on the track.

BT for 4WD track cars, usable power for FWD road cars

Firstly define BT and big power..
>300bhp for most is an achievement..
How the power is delivered is key to it being "handy" on track or nicer for road..

you know you dont toodle about in the up to 4krpm range when on track, so why build a setup with has good midrange and falls away up top, gets hot from sustained high end use, when on track.

Its going to be a compromise.. trust me, I've been doing this for bloody years.
you go down the slippery slope of wanting more and more from the track use side of things, and develop the car to be more track focused, and as a consequence it will become less road friendly.. and certainly will not make it back under its own power from time to time when abused on track.
Things WILL BREAK when used on track. guaranteed.

I could easily drive my ibiza power wise on the road.. speed is down to me and my right foot, and unless you have digital throttle foot, on-off, you drive to the road.. and on full chat boost its absolutely NOT suitable for the public roads. Far to fast. Thats where tracks come into it.. I can break every UK speed limit in just 1st gear.. (85mph) so its pointless, but think about it, its a racecar, which happens to be road legal. (evolved into such)

BT power delivery is mid to top end power and as aggressive as you wish to make it.. For fwd, smooth is faster.

those talking about wheelspin in first 3 gears etc.... consider racelogic traction control, or learn to control the throttle, and/or think about a boost controller which has gear limit boost like Apexi AVC-R. Flexible for applying tractable power, and switchable power levels.. for fwd road car with high power this is a very nice addition to cushion the "compromise"

 

[ibizacupra]

I think he is referring to 300 - 400bhp cars bill

Not 600+

I stand by what I have said.. speaking from actual experience of this since morphing my ibiza since 2001.

 

[Madmile]

I actually think when the vf34 is ran at 1.2-1.3bar peak its a great turbo and Jabba made a great choice to use it as a 300bhp+ turbo. But realistically its not a real world 350bhp turbo at sensible levels looking for longevity

My original vf34 is still running after 38k at 24psi peak.

 

[ibizacupra]

I worded it incorrectly Bill when I said " Real world Useable" I meant Public road real world useable for the average SCN user who maybe wants to hit the track 1-2 a year.

1.8T and huge turbo has to involve a lag trade off plain physics of CC vs Turbo size. And who wants that kind of top end power in your daily driver doing the shopping and dropping kids off at schools.

A little more lag over the Vf34 would not be a problem say 200-300rpm but no more. Theres a real gap for a genuine 365-375bhp turbo which can hit 1 bar below 3800rpm thats not been run ragged to achieve the power.

Wilko could possibly shed some light on it, but its seems like a genuine 18g is a nice turbo for the stnd 1.8T. Also scoobyclinic have some new Billet turbos which may provide some decent power.

There Sc36 on a sti on v-power with supporting mods hit 373bhp in shootout mode on a DD, and its about £850 inc vat.

Your arguement is a bit flawed mate..

who is racing to the shopping or school run anyhows.. using all the BT power... on public roads. Numptys (not meaning you) can easily drive too fast in simple remapped cars, driving too fast.... you describe it liek they're dead as a doornail below 4krpm.. and then go bezerk.. thats not how it has to be. Commute run, on the busy roads, you dont get opportunity to give it beans, and if you do, it will only be momentry until you encouter more traffic

For full on unleashed speed, track days or racing or speed events etc

 

[Madmile]

Your arguement is a bit flawed mate..

who is racing to the shopping or school run anyhows.. using all the BT power... on public roads. Numptys (not meaning you) can easily drive too fast in simple remapped cars, driving too fast.... you describe it liek they're dead as a doornail below 4krpm.. and then go bezerk.. thats not how it has to be. Commute run, on the busy roads, you dont get opportunity to give it beans, and if you do, it will only be momentry until you encouter more traffic

For full on unleashed speed, track days or racing or speed events etc

All I am saying Bill, is that in a Mk3 Ibiza the average Joe who uses the car 1-2 times a year on track and wants a fast shopping trolley that would have genuine mid range supercar performance (when req) on a 1.8T would be best suited to a 320-380bhp setup cost vs lag vs driveabilty.

Thast why I feel the 18g's or similar is where its at for Joe Bloggs. And 360-375bhp is where I feel its at to achievete above.

 

[jamiebennett81]

I stand by what I have said.. speaking from actual experience of this since morphing my ibiza since 2001.

sorry, that is very true. I have forgotten what speed is like now, due to now owning a TDI Passat estate. I clearly need a reminder already

 

[ibizacupra]

I actually think when the vf34 is ran at 1.2-1.3bar peak its a great turbo and Jabba made a great choice to use it as a 300bhp+ turbo. But realistically its not a real world 350bhp turbo at sensible levels looking for longevity

My original vf34 is still running after 38k at 24psi peak.

aye, agree.. Its a nice road going conversion and at sensible boost levels its a nice drive.
its flakey when pushed hard, but then so are many things. IHI's aint great on track longevity when pushed.

 

[ibizacupra]

All I am saying Bill, is that in a Mk3 Ibiza the average Joe who uses the car 1-2 times a year on track and wants a fast shopping trolley that would have genuine mid range supercar performance (when req) on a 1.8T would be best suited to a 320-380bhp setup.

That why I feel the 18g's or similar is where its at for Joe Bloggs. And 360-375bhp is where I feel its at to achievete above.

aye, dont doubt it.. but not sure if this is what willys thread was after.

 

[westallc]

No, KO3s mapped by Star Performance.
With 250 ft-lbs too.
It's very very fast.

really i think the rollers where very optomistic then lol

did it go on other rollers and get the same figures??? ( i doubt it )

 

[Madmile]

aye, dont doubt it.. but not sure if this is what willys thread was after.

Maybe, tuning cars is futile, once its done its not right, you want it different. Then you fancy a new car.

Save your money for retirement I reckon Willy

 

[Mark300zx]

It all depends what you fancy, I have done big turbo conversions on 300zx's and I think a lot of customers have sat down after spending a small fortune and wondered why they have done it, and ended up with a car that doesn't suit their driving style!

 

[Al]

really i think the rollers where very optomistic then lol

did it go on other rollers and get the same figures??? ( i doubt it )

That would be 3 sets of rollers then that all read within a few bhp of each other, and a 1/4 mile time way quicker than any other K03s Ibiza.

 

[ibizacupra]

downhill?
galeforce 10 assisted



only kidding

mutant k03s

 

[Spud_G40]

That would be 3 sets of rollers then that all read within a few bhp of each other, and a 1/4 mile time way quicker than any other K03s Ibiza.

Quicker for many reasons - another K03S ibiza has done a similar time think it was the one 'shantybeater' on here owned.

The acceleration on my BT setup compared to K03S is deadly, I can vouch for that. 1/4 mile isn't a BT cars favourite place slicks and a diff would help a lot though, on track is where the extra power would come into play... I know if i managed a track day I would leave for dead any K03 based car having driven my car at full K03 AND K03S spec.

 

[Al]

Quicker for many reasons - another K03S ibiza has done a similar time think it was the one 'shantybeater' on here owned.

The acceleration on my BT setup compared to K03S is deadly, I can vouch for that. 1/4 mile isn't a BT cars favourite place slicks and a diff would help a lot though, on track is where the extra power would come into play... I know if i managed a track day I would leave for dead any K03 based car having driven my car at full K03 AND K03S spec.

I am sure CupraBaz would be happy to test that theory

 

[Willie]

i am sure cuprabaz would be happy to test that theory

yup

 

[Willie]

Perhaps we all think about usable power in different ways.

For me usable power is power you can use not waste.
People say a 370 BHP MK3 IC has usable power then I say can you accelerate hard without spinning the wheels even with very controlling mapping.

Usable power is where anyone could jump into your car and get the best out of it.
If your bird can drive it hard and fast, its got usable power.
If you have to have the reactions of a sparrow hawk to lift off......accelerate.....lift off.....whoosh....dump...change gear.....whoosh dump....change gear...**** coppers......**** hedge......

Not really usable power

 

[alexj124]

haha love your description on non usable power

yeah i'd consider usuable power as power suits the purpose of the car.

Road car needs power available from low down and can tail off at the top because you've got to such a speed its now dangerous to go faster on a public road

On the track its different as you need sustained power and you can keep it in the right gear to allow that to happen as changing gear loses time you want to limit it

 

[Willie]

haha love your description on non usable power

yeah i'd consider usuable power as power suits the purpose of the car.

Road car needs power available from low down and can tail off at the top because you've got to such a speed its now dangerous to go faster on a public road

On the track its different as you need sustained power and you can keep it in the right gear to allow that to happen as changing gear loses time you want to limit it

LOL
Cheers stranger