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For me, personally wouldn't want it. It's more electronics, less feel, and it take away that control that determines exactly how you want to drive in certain conditions.
On a 2nd hand car that may go out of warranty don't expect cheap bills if it goes Pete Tong.
If all you do if hoof around city/town all day then maybe as it makes life easy, if you really enjoy the hobby of driving I'd leave it alone.
On a 2nd hand car that may go out of warranty don't expect cheap bills if it goes Pete Tong.
If all you do if hoof around city/town all day then maybe as it makes life easy, if you really enjoy the hobby of driving I'd leave it alone.
Been driving my new FR TFSI DSG since July now & it is so much fun! The padals give you full control of the gears, likewise the steptronic mode on the gearshift. When in Sport mode.......... it's bloody brilliant!
amills2005
Guest
one reason i went for the leon was for the dsg, it is awesome!
sport mode is also great fun if your in the mood, mpg is effected a bit (compared to one lad at work whose got a 140bhp golf tdi) but on a fuel card system so that dont bother me
can highly recommend it! 25000 miles in a year and so far with no problems
sport mode is also great fun if your in the mood, mpg is effected a bit (compared to one lad at work whose got a 140bhp golf tdi) but on a fuel card system so that dont bother me
can highly recommend it! 25000 miles in a year and so far with no problems
I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but theres been a few MK5 PD140 DSG's blowing their boxes at around 40k, due to an oil valve blocking and starving the system. Same also applies on MK5 GTIs and MK1 TT V6s.
I read it on UK-MKVs, the box is special order (from Germany) item at around £4000!
I read it on UK-MKVs, the box is special order (from Germany) item at around £4000!
jdearden
Guest
I'd say well worth it, i've always driven manuals, but i prefer the direct shift gearbox, people who don't have it get it into their heads it's like an auto...but it's far from it. It's a manual where you don't have to take your hands off the wheel to change gear.
Also the changes are so crisp and very smooth when in Drive mode. Also there's less wear and tear on parts than a manual box, I know the unit is expensive to replace but you could say 'i'll opt for a 1.0L 4cyl engine instead of a 3.2 V6, becuase it's cheaper to replace.
End of the day you're buying into the VAG group, natorious for great build quality and reliability.
I do track days in my FR DSG and also commute each day 110miles on the motorway, it's great wherever and however!
Also the changes are so crisp and very smooth when in Drive mode. Also there's less wear and tear on parts than a manual box, I know the unit is expensive to replace but you could say 'i'll opt for a 1.0L 4cyl engine instead of a 3.2 V6, becuase it's cheaper to replace.
End of the day you're buying into the VAG group, natorious for great build quality and reliability.
I do track days in my FR DSG and also commute each day 110miles on the motorway, it's great wherever and however!
Poverty
Guest
Even though im a massive VAG fanboy I would avoid it, if you like to modify your car or do trackdays.
jdearden
Guest
My FR DSG run's fine at 269BHP, I've had a revo remap, neuspeed CAI, full supersprint exhaust system uprated fuel pump and had no problems, handles the extra power very well in my opinion. I also know of a few ppl running big turbo upgrades on a dsg box and no problems there.
So I wouldn't say if you modify don't get.
As for avoiding paddle shifters if you do trackdays...well all i can say is why is the (track only) Ferrari FXX a paddle shifter, or the Maserati MC12 (track only) a paddle shifter, the Seat Cupra Championship cars are all 6spd DSG paddle shifters...
So I wouldn't say don't get if you do trackdays
I'd say get it.
I never thought I'd enjoy driving an auto but in tiptronic mode flipping up and down through the gears is just so much fun. Shifting up gears and keeping your foot down the the car feels lightning fast, I don't feel detatched from driving, its just a different experience. If you do go for a DSG test drive then concentrate on manual mode rather than drive, you get the best out of DSG using it as an automated manual rather than a full auto.
Full auto "D" is very usefull in traffic though, just easing your foot off the brake and trickling forward makes the 10-20mph sections of the chug to work so comfortable. I'd also say that changing gears on the steering wheel is very safe, I can drive home from work at midnight enjoying myself as there's no trafffic on the road and never take my hands off the wheel. That's got to be a safer way to drive hasn't it? If I had to drive a lot of miles per year I'd have DSG no question.
As jdearden states a lot of high end sports cars have paddle shifts now, I can't imagine that driving a paddle shift Lambo Gallardo is a detatched experience. I actually think too many people listen to J Clarkson, his sometimes dodgy opinions have probably slowed the uptake of these sorts of systems in this country.
I never thought I'd enjoy driving an auto but in tiptronic mode flipping up and down through the gears is just so much fun. Shifting up gears and keeping your foot down the the car feels lightning fast, I don't feel detatched from driving, its just a different experience. If you do go for a DSG test drive then concentrate on manual mode rather than drive, you get the best out of DSG using it as an automated manual rather than a full auto.
Full auto "D" is very usefull in traffic though, just easing your foot off the brake and trickling forward makes the 10-20mph sections of the chug to work so comfortable. I'd also say that changing gears on the steering wheel is very safe, I can drive home from work at midnight enjoying myself as there's no trafffic on the road and never take my hands off the wheel. That's got to be a safer way to drive hasn't it? If I had to drive a lot of miles per year I'd have DSG no question.
As jdearden states a lot of high end sports cars have paddle shifts now, I can't imagine that driving a paddle shift Lambo Gallardo is a detatched experience. I actually think too many people listen to J Clarkson, his sometimes dodgy opinions have probably slowed the uptake of these sorts of systems in this country.
I thought Clarkson loved the DSG box
or (other) paddle-shifts in general. I know the Aston DB9 (or S) he reckoned took a lifetime to change gear .... possibly the same with the Ferrari
I'm sticking DSG in the Toledo, and while I'm now slightly nervous about all this anti-DSG scare-mongering I still think it's the right choice![[B)]](/forums/styles/seatcupra/oldforumsmileys/shades.gif "Cool [B)]")
or (other) paddle-shifts in general. I know the Aston DB9 (or S) he reckoned took a lifetime to change gear .... possibly the same with the Ferrari
I'm sticking DSG in the Toledo, and while I'm now slightly nervous about all this anti-DSG scare-mongering I still think it's the right choice
Poverty
Guest
My FR DSG run's fine at 269BHP, I've had a revo remap, neuspeed CAI, full supersprint exhaust system uprated fuel pump and had no problems, handles the extra power very well in my opinion. I also know of a few ppl running big turbo upgrades on a dsg box and no problems there.
So I wouldn't say if you modify don't get.
As for avoiding paddle shifters if you do trackdays...well all i can say is why is the (track only) Ferrari FXX a paddle shifter, or the Maserati MC12 (track only) a paddle shifter, the Seat Cupra Championship cars are all 6spd DSG paddle shifters...
So I wouldn't say don't get if you do trackdays
The thing is when doing a big turbo upgrade you will require a uprated clutch at some point, and they are expensive. Audi couldnt utilise the DSG box throughtout the range on transverse fitted engines as the DSG box can only handle so much torque reliably. I cant remember the exact figure that the DSG box can handle in torque but could always find out for you.
The thing with comparing the likes of the paddle shift in the fxx and mc12 is that they are extremely different in their designed purpose. Also remember that the majority of hardcore track cars still use a good old fashioned manual gearbox. Audi's R8 and Lambos dont use DSG, they had to make use of R-tronic.
jdearden
Guest
yeah but remember the dsg is a very advanced system compared to other auto box's with 'flappy paddles' I can't remember which supercar it was (perhaps the enzo) but the dsg downshift is a lot quicker. Definately the future, as mogster says it's also safer/quicker as your hands are never off the wheel.
Also the VAG family paddle shifters always have the paddles mounted to the wheel not the column, i've driven a few cars with them on the column like the Nissan GT-R...means the padles are always at '10 to 2' so you know where they are, but then your hands could be quite some distance away. This way being on the wheel it's even better cause they're always by your fingertips.
Also the VAG family paddle shifters always have the paddles mounted to the wheel not the column, i've driven a few cars with them on the column like the Nissan GT-R...means the padles are always at '10 to 2' so you know where they are, but then your hands could be quite some distance away. This way being on the wheel it's even better cause they're always by your fingertips.
I have a feeling the Mk5 Golf was the exception to the rule
something like "most are just rubbish... but this is brilliant!"
If you still need convincing, take a look at the Golf GTi manual vs. DSG vids on YouTube
The big difference between the VAG flappy paddle and most (of the older) systems is that the VAG system has 2 clutches compared to 1. What JC hated so much was that those systems suffered from terrible lag from the system disengaging the clutch, changing gear and re-engaging the clutch. 2 clutches means that you can have the next gear up (or down) preselected and the system disengages one clutch and engages the other almost instantaneous. The likes of BMW and Porsche have either got or are working on their own dual-clutch systems so it can't be all that bad.
I will admit that the DSG in full auto (D) can be caught out if you decide you want to go quickly all of a sudden e.g. on a slip road. Sport is much better but does hang onto the gears a bit long (like it should really). Once you've lived with it for a few months you get used to the way it works and can "set it up" a second or so before making the move. It's also worth bearing in mind that at very low speed, D has a habit of being very jerky, simply because it puts the car in 2nd, knock the stick over to manual and it'll drop to 1st and be fine.
To my mind I feel far more in control of the car using the paddles (or stick), not having to think about clutch, moving my arm, clutch gives me more time to look at what's going on around me. Plus there's no chance of me looking like a tool and missing the gear! Plus I love the throttle blip on downchange.
I will admit that the DSG in full auto (D) can be caught out if you decide you want to go quickly all of a sudden e.g. on a slip road. Sport is much better but does hang onto the gears a bit long (like it should really). Once you've lived with it for a few months you get used to the way it works and can "set it up" a second or so before making the move. It's also worth bearing in mind that at very low speed, D has a habit of being very jerky, simply because it puts the car in 2nd, knock the stick over to manual and it'll drop to 1st and be fine.
To my mind I feel far more in control of the car using the paddles (or stick), not having to think about clutch, moving my arm, clutch gives me more time to look at what's going on around me. Plus there's no chance of me looking like a tool and missing the gear! Plus I love the throttle blip on downchange.
jdearden
Guest
The point I was making is that paddles are used on the steering wheel not a shift stick. Not the technology of the gearbox itself.
And yes as with everything there is a limit, ie a skyline won't handle 5000bhp mods....
Speaking as another FR TFSI DSG owner (since Feb08) I have to agree with all the pro-DSG comments made here (ok - so I'm biased..).
Without going technical, which has already been explained here better than I can, the box is simply a delight to use and so versatile depending on your driving mood or traffic conditions.
Having previously been a manual-only driver, I can't see me buying another car without a DSG or equivalent type box in the future.
Indeed the DSG was the reason we bought a Leon instead of a Civic (which was the missus's favourite, but even she is now a DSG convert..)
).Without going technical, which has already been explained here better than I can, the box is simply a delight to use and so versatile depending on your driving mood or traffic conditions.
Having previously been a manual-only driver, I can't see me buying another car without a DSG or equivalent type box in the future.
Indeed the DSG was the reason we bought a Leon instead of a Civic (which was the missus's favourite, but even she is now a DSG convert..
)
I took the FR manual and the Golf MkV DSG on test drives before plumping for my Leon FR DSG.
The manual FR is ok but nothing special, i think it takes the DSG for the Leon to feel like a totally different class of car.
I've always been a fan of tiptronic gearboxes since my FTO and i used to just deal with the power loss as being a consequence of having the auto convenience. However with the DSG you get all the usual laziness of an auto and fun of a tip but multiplied by 10!!!
The DSG is pretty much flawless to me. The software is great with the ECU preempting changes for the smoothest ride ever. Economy is great as the full Auto mode changes up pretty early but you can overide this by plonking it in "S" so it holds the gears much longer. If you want manual control then fine - you have the stick as you would in a tiptronic or you have the paddles allowing you to blip up and down through the gears quicker than you ever would in a manual.
Basically you have 4 different ways of driving the same car and you can mash these up as much as you want - fantastic.... Or you can stick with that minging upturned ski boot gear stick and mess around with that clutch pedal thingy - eeurgh, thing of the past
The manual FR is ok but nothing special, i think it takes the DSG for the Leon to feel like a totally different class of car.
I've always been a fan of tiptronic gearboxes since my FTO and i used to just deal with the power loss as being a consequence of having the auto convenience. However with the DSG you get all the usual laziness of an auto and fun of a tip but multiplied by 10!!!
The DSG is pretty much flawless to me. The software is great with the ECU preempting changes for the smoothest ride ever. Economy is great as the full Auto mode changes up pretty early but you can overide this by plonking it in "S" so it holds the gears much longer. If you want manual control then fine - you have the stick as you would in a tiptronic or you have the paddles allowing you to blip up and down through the gears quicker than you ever would in a manual.
Basically you have 4 different ways of driving the same car and you can mash these up as much as you want - fantastic.... Or you can stick with that minging upturned ski boot gear stick and mess around with that clutch pedal thingy - eeurgh, thing of the past
G!zmond0
Guest
At this point AT for me is poor choice. It's ok for people who want to have a little fun on their 5 km way on the job.
For people who want to make some tuning,heavy or not it's not an option at all.
The DSG is similar to the normal AT's ,the difference is the two clutches ,never the less it still contains rubbing parts.No pc can shift better than man,still.
The future generation of AT's is purely hydrolic,the patent is nought by MB i think.
Untill that becomes reality no AT for me
For people who want to make some tuning,heavy or not it's not an option at all.
The DSG is similar to the normal AT's ,the difference is the two clutches ,never the less it still contains rubbing parts.No pc can shift better than man,still.
The future generation of AT's is purely hydrolic,the patent is nought by MB i think.
Untill that becomes reality no AT for me
What the hell are you talking about ??
Go read up on how DSG works, and then think about whether you can disengage a single clutch, change gear and re-engage the clutch faster
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