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DPJ's GTRS Eliminator Install and Development
- Thread starter DPJ
- Start date
That's the $64,000 question.
(13 pages ago was page 5 for me, I was still ....ing about trying to get it together. Still it was only 6 months ago)
I would say so dave. Little bits at a time. Aim for cf's of 3 in 4th max. Should see 6-9's in 6th with that.
Might be worth checking without wm, to make sure the knock sensors have enough room to pull back if it fails. Watch the cf's carefully, and if you see 12's, close the throttle fast.
I'm very perplexed tonight. Without changing anything (except topping the tank with 38 litres of Tescos 99 on Friday) I'm pulling CFs.
Three 003-020 logs, the first done before the above, the second two done last.
Code:
Sunday 20 January 2008 19:51:57
06A 906 032 HN 1.8L R4/5VT 01 0002
Group A: '118 Group B: '032
Engine Speed Air Temp In Boost Dut Cyc Actual Boost Idle O2 Adapt Run O2 Adapt
700-6800 RPM <=110 C 0-100% <=1800 mbar -10.1 -10.1
/min °C % mbar % %
3200 9 100 1320 0.8 1.6
3480 13 100 1690 0.8 1.6
3800 13 100 1980 0.8 1.6
4120 13 92.5 2380 0.8 1.6
4480 14 67.8 2540 0.8 1.6
4880 15 55.7 2540 0.8 1.6
5160 16 40.4 2530 0.8 1.6
5520 17 22.4 2510 0.8 1.6
5800 18 8.6 2470 0.8 1.6
6160 18 8.2 2360 0.8 1.6
6360 20 7.5 2400 0.8 1.6
6640 20 9 2430 0.8 1.6
6840 21 4.3 2380 0.8 1.6
7040 21 3.9 2310 0.8 1.6
7200 21 0 2210 0.8 1.6
Code:
Group A: '115 Group B: '031
Engine Speed Engine Load Spec. Boost Actual Boost Lambda Factor Lambda Factor
700-6800 RPM 15-150% 990-1800 mbar <=1800 mbar
/min % mbar mbar
3320 127.8 2100 1660 0.86 0.86
3600 143.6 2230 1850 0.828 0.821
3880 170.7 2400 2170 0.789 0.805
4200 191.7 2450 2450 0.789 0.805
4600 191.7 2450 2540 0.805 0.805
4960 191.7 2400 2530 0.805 0.805
5280 191.7 2400 2540 0.789 0.805
5560 191.7 2400 2500 0.805 0.805
5880 191.7 2410 2450 0.789 0.805
6120 183.5 2410 2370 0.782 0.805
6400 182 2410 2400 0.789 0.805
6600 177.4 2400 2380 0.797 0.805
6800 166.9 2330 2330 0.805 0.805
7000 162.4 2300 2310 0.797 0.805
7160 157.1 2230 2180 0.75 0.805
7200 170.7 1000 2400 0.75 0.805Three 003-020 logs, the first done before the above, the second two done last.
Code:
Group A: '003 Group B: '020
/min g/s % °BTDC CF CF CF CF
3360 77.17 99.2 24 0 0.8 0 0
3560 100.31 99.6 20.3 3 7.5 7.5 9
3880 139.69 100 9.8 1.5 7.5 6.8 9
4280 176.47 100 7.5 1.5 7.5 6.8 9
4680 194.28 100 7.5 1.5 7.5 6.8 8.3
5080 207.5 100 9 1.5 7.5 6 8.3
5400 210.08 99.6 9.8 1.5 7.5 6 7.5
5680 208.39 100 11.3 1.5 6.8 5.3 6.8
5960 215.86 100 13.5 0.8 6 4.5 5.3
6200 227.89 100 13.5 0 4.5 3 4.5
6480 222.36 100 18.8 0 3.8 2.3 3.8
6720 216.58 100 23.3 0 2.3 1.5 2.3
6920 216.22 100 24.8 0 1.5 0 1.5
7080 216.67 100 26.3 0 0.8 0 0.8
7240 224.14 96.9 10.5 0 0.8 0 0.8
3640 93.19 100 26.3 0 3 5.3 4.5
3920 131.75 100 13.5 0 3 5.3 3.8
4320 170.58 100 9 0 3 5.3 3.8
4760 194.03 100 12.8 3 3 5.3 3.8
5040 201.69 100 13.5 3 3 5.3 3.8
5400 205.86 100 9.8 3 3 4.5 3.8
5640 210.08 100 12 3 2.3 4.5 3.8
5920 213.47 100 15 3 2.3 4.5 3
6200 220.75 100 18 2.3 2.3 3.8 3
6520 220.06 100 18.8 2.3 1.5 3.8 3
6720 221.44 100 21 2.3 1.5 3.8 2.3
6920 215.86 100 24 1.5 1.5 3.8 2.3
7120 216.67 99.6 18 0.8 1.5 2.3 2.3
7200 219.69 98.4 11.3 0 0.8 2.3 2.3
3600 86.39 100 25.5 0.8 1.5 2.3 7.5
3840 119.19 100 14.3 0.8 1.5 2.3 7.5
4160 156.97 100 10.5 0 1.5 2.3 6
4520 180.58 100 9.8 0 1.5 2.3 5.3
4880 195.08 100 10.5 0 1.5 1.5 5.3
5240 203.86 100 11.3 0 0.8 1.5 4.5
5560 215.89 100 12.8 0 0.8 1.5 3.8
5840 217.28 100 14.3 0 0 1.5 3
6120 215.86 100 19.5 0 0 1.5 2.3
6360 221.11 100 18 0 0 0.8 1.5
6600 220.06 100 20.3 0 0 0 0.8
6840 217.94 100 26.3 0 0 0 0
7040 227.53 100 20.3 0 0 0 0
7200 211.08 100 29.3 0 0 0 0
7240 68.03 23.9 19.5 0 0 0 0I hesitate to point the finger and I did dig the receipt out to check I'd definitely put 99 in (I've never put 95 in) ...................
but...........................
presuming they stuck the right fuel in the right tank.
bung some millars CVL turbo in and see if cf's fall away again until you try a tank of V-Power to compare maybe.
not unheard of for some random fuel in some fuel stations... (or with added H2O in our recent weatrher)
bung some millars CVL turbo in and see if cf's fall away again until you try a tank of V-Power to compare maybe.
not unheard of for some random fuel in some fuel stations... (or with added H2O in our recent weatrher)
presuming they stuck the right fuel in the right tank.
bung some millars CVL turbo in and see if cf's fall away again until you try a tank of V-Power to compare maybe.
not unheard of for some random fuel in some fuel stations... (or with added H2O in our recent weatrher)
Cheers Bill.
I'll hunt down some millars, and also use the car to commute -I should be able to empty the tank by Wednesday....
I've only started using Tesco's occasionally in the last couple of months, always V-Power before that.
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Dave
I've found some tescos 99 to be rocket fuel, and some to be..... well something else portraying itself as 99.
I use 2 shell stations and have found both to be reliable with v power.
I keep my PDA with Vag check in my car all the time and check block 20 after every 'unknown' fill up. TAkes 2 mins, and not worth risking the consequences of not checking.
I've found some tescos 99 to be rocket fuel, and some to be..... well something else portraying itself as 99.
I use 2 shell stations and have found both to be reliable with v power.
I keep my PDA with Vag check in my car all the time and check block 20 after every 'unknown' fill up. TAkes 2 mins, and not worth risking the consequences of not checking.
Lesson learnt!
Tesco 99 is a very recent arrival in our area. Back to Vpower - i have two Shell garages available - one near work that price matches Tesco, and one near home that's on the A1......
There will be a short delay in preparations for this weekend while I use up 150 miles of fuel (with the timing turned down). My days of syphoning petrol are long past.
20 minutes tonight using the final drops of fuel up.
53 litres of VPower.
TBA
timing +3
third run
Code:
3080 3 6 6 6.8
3320 3 9 6 6.8
3520 3 9 6 6
3800 2.3 9 6 6
4120 2.3 9 6 6
4440 2.3 8.3 6 6
4840 2.3 8.3 5.3 6
5160 2.3 7.5 5.3 6
5520 2.3 7.5 5.3 5.3
5800 2.3 6.8 5.3 5.3
6080 2.3 6.8 5.3 5.3
6320 1.5 6.8 4.5 5.3
6600 1.5 6 4.5 4.5
6840 1.5 6 4.5 4.5
7040 1.5 6 3.8 4.5I'm of course starting to wonder what I should do with the wmi for Saturday, knock it back down to 20% (with timing a 0 over T9) ?
A little aggressive for my liking dave.
Log actual timing on multiple runs against cf's. Sweet spot seems to be 3's with the occasional 6. Look at actual advance though.
For sat, run whatever feels best on the road.
Log actual timing on multiple runs against cf's. Sweet spot seems to be 3's with the occasional 6. Look at actual advance though.
For sat, run whatever feels best on the road.
Brought it to work, too much traffic for serious logs... here's what I managed on timing +1.5 50%wm (They're done over about a 25 minute timescale.)
Code:
Thursday 24 January 2008 08:35:10
06A 906 032 HN 1.8L R4/5VT 01 0002
Group A: '003 Group B: '020
/min g/s % °BTDC CF CF CF CF
3360 20.47 12.5 39.8 0 0 0 1.5
3480 73.94 99.6 24.8 0 5.3 0 0.8
3640 105.17 100 22.5 3 5.3 0 0
3960 140.33 100 12.8 3 5.3 0 0
4320 178.22 100 8.3 3 5.3 0 0
4640 193.03 100 9.8 3 5.3 0 0
5040 204.31 100 9.8 3 4.5 0 0
5360 213.83 100 15.8 2.3 4.5 0 0
5680 216.22 100 10.5 2.3 4.5 0 0
5960 215.86 99.6 15.8 1.5 3 0 0
6240 222.17 100 12.8 0 0 0 0
3360 81.42 100 31.5 0 0 3 3
3560 102.58 100 22.5 0 6 3 3
3840 131.61 100 12.8 3 6 3 1.5
4160 171.33 100 9 3 6 3 1.5
4520 187.44 100 8.3 3 5.3 3 1.5
4800 199.56 100 8.3 3 5.3 3 1.5
5120 203.39 100 9.8 3 5.3 2.3 1.5
3400 59.28 25.5 17.3 0 0 0 3
3520 86 59.2 15 0 3 0 5.3
3720 115.89 100 21 3 3 0 5.3
4000 145.61 100 11.3 3 3 0 5.3
4360 175.17 100 8.3 3 3 0 4.5
4720 193.5 100 12 3 3 0 3.8
5040 208.61 100 10.5 2.3 3 0 3
5360 211.44 100 11.3 2.3 2.3 0 3
5680 214.22 100 11.3 1.5 1.5 0 2.3
6000 219 100 12.8 1.5 0.8 0 2.3
6240 220.14 100 18 1.5 0 0 2.3
6480 226.08 100 18.8 0.8 0 0 1.5
6720 224.67 100 21.8 0 0 0 0.8
3440 69.81 20.8 3 0 1.5 2.3 6
3560 99.89 97.6 24 0 0.8 1.5 5.3
3880 128.81 100 13.5 0 0.8 1.5 4.5
4160 161.53 100 9.8 0 0.8 1.5 4.5
4560 188.42 100 9 0 0 1.5 3.8
4920 200.19 100 10.5 0 0 0.8 3.8
5280 210.81 100 12.8 0 0 0.8 3
3320 90.64 100 21 3 6 6 5.3
3560 116.69 99.6 0 3 6 6 5.3
3920 145.5 100 6.8 3 6 6 5.3
4240 178.22 100 9 3 6 6 5.3
4680 193.64 100 7.5 3 6 6 5.3
4960 205.53 100 9.8 3 6 6 5.3
5280 215.67 100 9.8 3 6 5.3 5.3
5600 211.67 100 11.3 2.3 5.3 5.3 4.5
5920 221.44 100 9.8 2.3 5.3 5.3 4.5
6160 219.25 100 13.5 2.3 5.3 5.3 4.5One thing I haven't mentioned before is that if I start a run in 4th before it's spooled, CFs are worse and remain further up the run. (ie if I started a run with the turbo spooled, the CFs will be lower. See the longer run above, I didn't floor it until 3720; less load before then, giving lower CFs in the run
)
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Another couple of examples from tonight's trip home.............
In the first case, floored while running along at just under 4k.
In the second case, booted in third and then into 4th
It seems to me that I don't have a problem 4k+ and I could probably add more timing. The problem is (possibly) that anything added exacerbates the problems when it's spooling up.
In the first case, floored while running along at just under 4k.
Code:
'003 '020
/min g/s % °BTDC CF CF CF CF
3920 59.28 28.6 18.8 0 0 0 0.8
4160 142.42 100 15 0 0 0 0
4520 189.97 100 13.5 0 0 0 0
4920 202.81 100 11.3 0 0 0 0
5320 215.11 100 12.8 0 0 0 0
5600 215.94 100 15 0 0 0 0
5880 215.86 100 16.5 0 0 0 0
6120 219.25 100 18.8 0 0 0 0
6400 229.97 100 18 0 0 0 0
6280 73.33 4.3 7.5 0 0 0 0In the second case, booted in third and then into 4th
Code:
'003 '020
/min g/s % °BTDC CF CF CF CF
2560 45.19 29.4 31.5 0 0 0 0
2840 61.25 100 14.3 0 0 3 3
3120 75.11 100 13.5 0 3 6 6
3560 111.36 100 22.5 0 6 6 6
4040 156.5 98 0.8 0 6 6 6
3440 0.28 13.3 39.8 0 0 3 1.5
3320 80.31 99.6 30 0 0 2.3 0.8
3560 102.75 100 10.5 0 0 1.5 0
3840 127.94 100 13.5 0 0 1.5 0
4160 167.58 100 9.8 0 0 1.5 0
4560 190.61 100 12 0 0 1.5 0
4880 199.69 100 10.5 0 3 0.8 0
5200 205.03 100 12.8 0 3 0.8 0
5480 211.11 100 14.3 0 3 0.8 0
5720 209.75 100 13.5 0 2.3 0.8 0
6000 220.75 100 15 0 2.3 0 0
6200 222.53 100 13.5 0 2.3 0 0It seems to me that I don't have a problem 4k+ and I could probably add more timing. The problem is (possibly) that anything added exacerbates the problems when it's spooling up.
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Dave
You have no water meth to reduce knock at <4k out of boost situations, and have it in boost. The shape of your timing curve is written for a car wthout w/m
The knock low down pushes cylinder temps up fast, and you never recover.
You need your timing curve to be less agressive out of boost, and more agressive in boost.
You have no water meth to reduce knock at <4k out of boost situations, and have it in boost. The shape of your timing curve is written for a car wthout w/m
The knock low down pushes cylinder temps up fast, and you never recover.
You need your timing curve to be less agressive out of boost, and more agressive in boost.
Firstly, I'm really sorry I won't get to see you this weekend, John.
Do you think I should try lowering my wm onset to see if it will help<4k?
Is there anything I can do with Revo to improve my timing curve?
Firstly, I'm really sorry I won't get to see you this weekend, John.
Do you think I should try lowering my wm onset to see if it will help<4k?
Is there anything I can do with Revo to improve my timing curve?
Dave
Without getting them to write a tune for w/m, it's a difficult one. You could try bringing it in at 8-10psi, or drive around it. There's no point flooring it out of boost. Change down and keep it where it's happy.
I was looking forward to seeing you too mate, as well as vern, the mark's, and many more.
The re arranged day will be around soon enough. In the meantime, don't get too obsessed and just drive it.
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