DPJ's GTRS Eliminator Install and Development

[DPJ]

CF's have fallen back nicely with the WMI and G/s peaking around 220 ish which as you say is scaled, do you know what the scaled G/s converts to? is it close to the 300bhp at JBS.

Things look nice and healthy and more to come if you want it

Cheers, Steve.

226.36 g/s at 1.12 Scaling (Wilco - earlier this thread) times say 1.25 would give 317 bhp.
(1.31 would be 332 bhp - tbh I don't think it's there yet...)

At this point, I have absolutely no idea!

 

[DPJ]

Dave, if your using a 375ml nozzle and say your injectors are running at 70% then your flow through your nozzle is too much!

No. of injectors... 4
Injector flow at 3 Bar.... 550cc
System fuel pressure.... 3 bar
Injector Duty Cycle... 70% (assumption)
Calculated Injector Flow....385 cc/min
Total Fuel Flow... 1540cc/min@

Engine Boost Level - 21-25psi
Nozzle size @ 60psig.... 375cc/min
Pump Pressure Rating... 180psi (or is it the 150psi version?)
Reccomended Mix 22% with gasoline
Actual Nozzle Flow....650cc/min
Reccomended Nozzle Flow... 430cc/min


Basically your pumping in too much water/meth according to these calcs.

Sorry Phil, I missed this post!
Yes, 180 psi. I need a 225cc nozzle, don't I.

Thanks for doing the calcs.

 

[PhilW]

Lol, i didnt do the calcs, USRT's little program done it.

 

[DPJ]

Lol, i didnt do the calcs, USRT's little program done it.

You took the time to put the numbers in and press the buttons!

 

[PhilW]

Why was the run stopped at 6774? Which is incidently the same point at where peak power is?

Surely if it revs to 7200 or whatever standard/stage 3 revs to there should be some more power lef in it?

Seems strange peak power was at the same time the run was ended...

 

[DPJ]

Here's a log of 002.

ECU and TBA resets before. T9 HB9 / 6.5 degrees outside / no wmi

Monday	22	October	2007	20:17:59
06A 906 032 HN		1.8L R4/5VT         0002		
				
'002				
Idle speed	Engine load	Inj. period	Air mass in	
700-820 rpm	15-25%	2.0 - 4.0 ms	2.0-4.5 g/s	
 /min	%	 ms	 g/s	
2440	30.8	2.72	14.69	
2440	33.1	2.72	15.92	
2440	33.1	2.38	15.58	
2440	33.1	2.38	16	
2480	33.8	2.72	16.39	
2480	33.1	2.38	15.97	
2480	33.1	2.72	15.97	
2480	33.8	2.72	16.56	
2520	60.9	5.1	43.78	
2560	86.5	6.12	45.67	
2600	92.5	6.12	47.33	
2680	99.2	6.8	52.5	
2760	104.5	7.14	56.92	
2800	109.8	7.82	62.67	
2920	112.8	8.16	63.67	
2960	115.8	8.5	67.69	
3080	119.5	8.84	70.25	
3160	125.6	9.52	78	
3280	131.6	10.2	84.97	
3400	139.1	11.22	92.58	
3520	146.6	11.56	98.5	
3600	154.1	12.58	107.33	
3720	164.7	13.6	118.22	
3840	179.7	14.62	137.33	
4040	191.7	15.98	151.47	
4200	191.7	16.66	165.72	
4360	191.7	17.68	183.5	
4480	191.7	18.02	189.72	
4680	191.7	18.36	196.14	
4840	191.7	18.02	202.56	
4920	191.7	17.34	196.67	
5080	191.7	16.66	194.75	
5160	191.7	16.32	191.08	
5280	191.7	15.64	195.14	
5400	191.7	15.64	194.22	
5520	191	15.64	203.75	
5600	191.7	15.64	207.19	
5720	191.7	15.64	212.81	
5840	189.5	15.3	213.83	
5960	189.5	15.3	214.17	
6040	188	15.3	219	
6160	184.2	14.96	216.56	
6240	184.2	14.96	220.14	
6320	182.7	14.96	222.53	
6440	179.7	14.62	223.94	
6520	178.9	14.62	222.53	
6600	178.2	14.28	223.56	
6720	172.2	13.94	217.97	
6800	170.7	13.94	220.42	
6880	171.4	13.94	221.03	
6960	164.7	13.6	222.36	
7000	165.4	13.6	223.94	
7160	162.4	13.6	221.44	
7160	162.4	13.94	217.5	
7200	159.4	13.26	217.5	
7200	160.9	13.6	225.44	
7240	166.2	13.94	235.47	
7240	59.4	3.06	1.97

 

[PhilW]

Revs to 7240 then?

Still think the rolling road run was cut short by 500rpm.

using the calculators, you need to run the 225cc/min nozzle as that will put out 390cc/min when you need roughly 465cc/min.

With the current nozzle setting your dumping in 100cc/min more than whats needed.

 

[DPJ]

Revs to 7240 then?

Still think the rolling road run was cut short by 500rpm.

using the calculators, you need to run the 225cc/min nozzle as that will put out 390cc/min when you need roughly 465cc/min.

With the current nozzle setting your dumping in 100cc/min more than whats needed.

Sorry Phil, I couldn't get on here last night to continue this.

I'll start a new thread on this in Bill's forum a little later as it's a topic on its own. I have some questions.

235.47 g/s - it was still pulling hard when the rev limiter cut in.

 

[Wilko]

Dave
I don't think your maf is scaled. If you're running revo bt and a cupra r or tt maf tube, then it reads correctly. The airflow looks spot on for 1.4 bar at the top end on a small port.
WI will probably gain you more hp if your intercooler was too small. There are some gains to be made in timing with WI, but I think most of the gain is in density recovery due to cooler intake temps.
In other words if your boost is set at 1.4 bar, more air will go in at 1.4 bar if it's cooler.
A 40-20C drop in intake temp gives 6-7% more air.

But your intercooler looks prety good. you're only gaining 5-10C with WI. Not much is evaporating, so most of it is in your cylinders, probably depressing combustion temperature to a point where you loose power.

Looks good though dave.

 

[DPJ]

Dave
I don't think your maf is scaled. If you're running revo bt and a cupra r or tt maf tube, then it reads correctly. The airflow looks spot on for 1.4 bar at the top end on a small port.
WI will probably gain you more hp if your intercooler was too small. There are some gains to be made in timing with WI, but I think most of the gain is in density recovery due to cooler intake temps.
In other words if your boost is set at 1.4 bar, more air will go in at 1.4 bar if it's cooler.
A 40-20C drop in intake temp gives 6-7% more air.

But your intercooler looks prety good. you're only gaining 5-10C with WI. Not much is evaporating, so most of it is in your cylinders, probably depressing combustion temperature to a point where you loose power.

Looks good though dave.

Thanks for this, John.

I'm confused on one thing though (being a bear of very little brain) - how can my MAF not be scaled? If it's sitting in a tube that's larger than it was designed for, surely more grams of air are actually going through the tube than would be in a smaller diameter tube (where it reads correctly)

 

[Wilko]

Thanks for this, John.

I'm confused on one thing though (being a bear of very little brain) - how can my MAF not be scaled? If it's sitting in a tube that's larger than it was designed for, surely more grams of air are actually going through the tube than would be in a smaller diameter tube (where it reads correctly)

If you're running revo BT, it's based on a code that uses a larger maf, ie cupra r or tt etc. They have basically the same ecu, so it's easier for tuners to start with a code that uses the hardware (as far as possible) that the car has on it.
The only difference between the cupra maf and the cupra R maf is the plastic tube around the sensor, so you effectively have a cupra R maf, and the code is written for it

The water has two effects in WI. Firstly some of it evaporates, and reduces charge temperature, helping density recovery. In the time available only so much can be evaporated, and if you intake temps are already low, the amount of water vapor the air can carry is relatively low.

The residual water has a second effect in that it slows down the flame front speed, but it also reduces flame temperature, and absorbs energy. There's a fine balance between slowing the flame front, and quenching it completely, It also absorbs energy that could be used to increase cylinder pressure, and do useful work on the piston.

 

[DPJ]

If you're running revo BT, it's based on a code that uses a larger maf, ie cupra r or tt etc. They have basically the same ecu, so it's easier for tuners to start with a code that uses the hardware (as far as possible) that the car has on it.
The only difference between the cupra maf and the cupra R maf is the plastic tube around the sensor, so you effectively have a cupra R maf, and the code is written for it

So the MAF element will give a lower voltage (for the same airflow) in the LCR tube than in the LC tube. The ecu is recognising this as an 'LCR reading' and reporting g/s 'accurately'.

Cheers John.

 

[wild willy]

Dave I'm not so sure mate. Simply because a standard LCR Maff is 75-76mm OD but correct me if i'm wrong but yours is an 80mm OD housing so there will be a small difference.

 

[DPJ]

Dave I'm not so sure mate. Simply because a standard LCR Maff is 75-76mm OD but correct me if i'm wrong but yours is an 80mm OD housing so there will be a small difference.

hmmm....... It gets more complicated!

 

[Martyn]

Aye, standard LCR MAF tube is 76mm or 3" so if you're running an 80mm housing then the readings will be lower than expected/actual.

 

[Feel]

Depends on the I'D though, not the OD?

 

[Martyn]

Time to get measuring

 

[ibizacupra]

The water has two effects in WI. Firstly some of it evaporates, and reduces charge temperature, helping density recovery. In the time available only so much can be evaporated, and if you intake temps are already low, the amount of water vapor the air can carry is relatively low.

The residual water has a second effect in that it slows down the flame front speed, but it also reduces flame temperature, and absorbs energy. There's a fine balance between slowing the flame front, and quenching it completely, It also absorbs energy that could be used to increase cylinder pressure, and do useful work on the piston.

and the meth contribution as a fuel.
mine goes rich on my 50/50 mix on lambda logging when WI is on... (compensated by adjusting fueling)

I dont know why USRT's calc's are based on 20% mix tho, when Snow reccomend 50/50.

most definately more timing possible on 50/50 from more than just cooling effect on charge temp.

 

[DPJ]

Time to get measuring

It's dark out there..........

and the meth contribution as a fuel.
mine goes rich on my 50/50 mix on lambda logging when WI is on... (compensated by adjusting fueling)

I dont know why USRT's calc's are based on 20% mix tho, when Snow reccomend 50/50.

most definately more timing possible on 50/50 from more than just cooling effect on charge temp.

Bill - USRT's 22% is the percentage of 50/50 water methanol to the total fluid flow (fuel + water + methanol)

see my explanation here

 

[DPJ]

Time to get measuring

Yes, it's an 80mm o/d MAF tube.