DPJ's GTRS Eliminator Install and Development

[PhilW]

So to get this right, 268 was without water/meth and 300 (sounds better lol) was with wmi? Both on HB9 T9?

Did you log any of the runs dave?

Congrats on the figures tho, shows the scope for me.

 

[ibizacupra]

Can you get me a jet from the basic kit, Bill? I'm more than willing to try unisettings etc. (need a USB cable, my vag-com is serial). What do I use to tell me that I'm benefiting from the tweaks?

what jet have you fitted? (2 came in my own kit, of which i am using the smallest)

using unisettings (or lemmi equivalent) dial in ign additive offset timing.. 3 degrees at a time and relog with vag-com to see CF'sunder load.

 

[m0rk]

Second run, I pulled the fuse on the water/methanol. 295.2 bhp 265.9 torque. I'd like to have seen 300+, but hey, not bad for a DIY job.

James said he thought the hardware was right and that he reckoned he could find me another 30-40 bhp and a lot more torque.

Found the torque! just it's not on your car

It's myk3's graphs from when he ran the elim - robbed from http://mikesgolfgti.atspace.com/Index.html

 

[DPJ]

what jet have you fitted? (2 came in my own kit, of which i am using the smallest)

using unisettings (or lemmi equivalent) dial in ign additive offset timing.. 3 degrees at a time and relog with vag-com to see CF'sunder load.

There was a 375ml/min nozzle (350-475 RWHP) and a 625ml nozzle (474-600 RWHP) in my box Bill, so I'm using the smaller one.

I think I might be better with a 175ml nozzle (250-350 RWHP). I think that comes with the standard kits?

I'll get Lemmiwinks and familiarise myself with it this week.

Found the torque! just it's not on your car

It's myk3's graphs from when he ran the elim - robbed from http://mikesgolfgti.atspace.com/Index.html

Hmmm, very interesting. I'd seen that before, but I'd forgotten about it. A lot of food for thought.

I've drained by water/methanol and replaced it with a 20% mixture. I'm now off out to log the car without and with.

 

[m0rk]

Just wondering if something isn't quite 'right' before getting your ECU wiped clean of a known qty and replaced by something else.

it's always possible the etch-a-sketch wasn't working 100%, but it would be interesting to compare common nodes on both your graph & those to see where it's dropping

 

[DPJ]

Just wondering if something isn't quite 'right' before getting your ECU wiped clean of a known qty and replaced by something else.

it's always possible the etch-a-sketch wasn't working 100%, but it would be interesting to compare common nodes on both your graph & those to see where it's dropping

I'm not quite with you here, Mark. Do you mean my Revo stage 3 flash might have been wrong?

 

[DPJ]

If I was in any doubt that building the big tip was going to be a waste of money, I'm not now! See these logs, no WMI.

T9 HB9 10.5 degrees outside

'003				'020			
Idle speed	Air mass in	Throt Angle	Ignit Angle	Idle Stabilization	Idle Stabilization	Idle Stabilization	Idle Stabilization
 /min	 g/s	%	 °BTDC	 CF	 CF	 CF	 CF
2400	30.92	18.8	30	0	0	0	0
2480	31.81	18.8	31.5	0	0	3	0
2600	50.25	99.2	15.8	0	0	6	3
2720	54.86	100	15.8	0	0	6	3
2840	61.06	100	21.8	0	3	6	3
3000	68.92	100	25.5	3	3	6	3
3160	76.08	100	24.8	3	6	6	2.3
3320	86.53	100	24	3	6	5.3	2.3
3520	99.92	100	14.3	3	6	5.3	5.3
3760	125	100	11.3	2.3	6	5.3	5.3
4040	153.94	100	5.3	2.3	6	5.3	5.3
4280	179.28	100	4.5	2.3	6	5.3	5.3
4560	187.97	100	5.3	2.3	6	5.3	5.3
4800	199.83	100	6	2.3	6	5.3	5.3
5040	196.67	100	6.8	2.3	6	5.3	5.3
5280	191.08	100	6.8	2.3	5.3	5.3	5.3
5520	203.31	100	9.8	2.3	5.3	4.5	4.5
5720	211.67	100	9	2.3	5.3	4.5	4.5
5880	211.78	100	10.5	2.3	5.3	4.5	4.5
6120	218.67	100	10.5	1.5	4.5	4.5	4.5
6320	220.75	100	12.8	1.5	4.5	3.8	3.8
6440	223.22	100	13.5	1.5	4.5	3.8	3.8
6600	218.83	100	15.8	1.5	4.5	3.8	3.8
6720	220.03	100	17.3	1.5	3.8	3.8	3.8
6880	217.94	100	19.5	1.5	3.8	3.8	3.8
7000	223.22	100	18	0	0	0	0


3520	33.64	17.3	24	0	0	0	0
3560	26.5	15.3	36.8	0	0	0	0
3600	69.58	49	15.8	0	0	0	0
3720	92.58	100	29.3	0	0	0	3
3880	118.47	100	15	0	0	3	3
4160	151.94	100	15.8	0	0	3	3
4480	186.81	100	6	3	3	3	6
4800	201.83	100	6	3	3	6	6
5120	200.69	100	6.8	3	3	6	6
5400	197.97	100	6.8	3	3	6	6
5560	206.08	100	7.5	3	3	5.3	5.3
5800	212.78	100	9.8	3	3	4.5	4.5
6000	215.53	100	10.5	2.3	2.3	3.8	3.8
6160	213.81	100	14.3	1.5	1.5	3	3
6360	219.33	100	13.5	1.5	0.8	2.3	2.3
6520	213.25	100	16.5	0.8	0.8	4.5	1.5
6680	222.36	100	15	0	3.8	4.5	0.8
6880	226.36	100	16.5	0	3.8	4.5	0.8
7000	221.44	100	18	0	3.8	4.5	0.8

Sunday	21	October	2007	17:28:22	
06A 906 032 HN		1.8L R4/5VT         0002			

'115				'031	
Engine Speed	Engine Load	Spec. Boost	Actual Boost	Lambda Factor	Lambda Factor
 /min	%	 mbar	 mbar		
3000	72.2	1950	1020	1.031	0.992
3080	94.7	1970	1220	0.828	0.969
3160	111.3	2040	1420	0.93	0.906
3280	123.3	2080	1570	0.875	0.875
3440	134.6	2150	1720	0.836	0.836
3640	150.4	2250	1920	0.813	0.813
3880	170.7	2370	2160	0.789	0.805
4120	191.7	2450	2450	0.797	0.805
4360	191.7	2450	2540	0.789	0.805
4680	191.7	2430	2540	0.805	0.805
4920	191.7	2400	2540	0.782	0.805
5200	191.7	2400	2430	0.789	0.805
5400	191.7	2400	2400	0.797	0.805
5640	190.2	2400	2400	0.805	0.805
5840	189.5	2400	2450	0.789	0.805
6040	184.2	2400	2420	0.789	0.805
6200	182.7	2400	2370	0.789	0.805
6400	182.7	2400	2380	0.797	0.805
6600	172.9	2400	2450	0.789	0.805
6760	172.9	2360	2390	0.789	0.805
6960	166.9	2330	2440	0.789	0.805

Sunday	21	October	2007	17:30:37	
06A 906 032 HN		1.8L R4/5VT         0002			

'118				'032	
Engine Speed	Air Temp In	Boost Dut Cyc	Actual Boost	Idle O2 Adapt	Run O2 Adapt
 /min	°C	%	 mbar	%	%
2560	20	100	1250	2.6	0
2720	19	100	1360	2.6	0
2840	18	100	1410	2.6	0
3000	18	100	1500	2.6	0
3120	18	100	1560	2.6	0
3280	18	100	1650	2.6	0
3480	18	100	1800	2.6	0
3680	18	100	1950	2.6	0
3960	19	100	2230	2.6	0
4200	20	79.6	2510	2.6	0
4480	21	66.7	2540	2.6	0
4800	21	58.8	2540	2.6	0
5080	23	46.3	2540	2.6	0
5320	24	40.4	2410	2.6	0
5560	24	41.2	2420	2.6	0
5760	26	40.4	2440	2.6	0
5960	27	38.8	2390	2.6	0
6160	27	40	2400	2.6	0
6360	29	43.1	2390	2.6	0
6520	30	43.9	2410	2.6	0
6760	30	39.6	2390	2.6	0
6880	31	37.3	2370	2.6	0
7040	31	15.7	2360	2.6	0
5960	27	0	1300	2.6	0
5560	24	79.6	1420	2.6	0

 

[Martyn]

Dave, re-read what Mark wrote mate

*Edit* Logs look very good to me.

 

[The MoffMeister]

well my tip will be good to then lol

it seems to pull the g/s very well dave

 

[PhilW]

Turbos no trying that hard is it? ~45% WG duty for the majority of the run.

Spooling quicker i notice as well as g/s are up.

Not sure whats up with the knock values tho, you got any logs with WMI now?

 

[DPJ]

well my tip will be good to then lol

it seems to pull the g/s very well dave

Considering the g/s is scaled, 226 times whatever is quite a lot.

A little unexpected bonus, Rob. The sound of the 007 dumping into the alloy teapot tip section is brilliant. My dv is reversed, but I get hiss and chirp now! If I come off the throttle gently, it nearly talks!

 

[The MoffMeister]

haha class so you wont get lonely on the journeys lol

 

[wild willy]

Considering the g/s is scaled, 226 times whatever is quite a lot.

A little unexpected bonus, Rob. The sound of the 007 dumping into the alloy teapot tip section is brilliant. My dv is reversed, but I get hiss and chirp now! If I come off the throttle gently, it nearly talks!

Your Tips Alive. A talking tip ... now thats a mod.
Great to see yours efforts worth while. Is this with the larger collar fitted on the turbo inlet.

 

[DPJ]

Turbos no trying that hard is it? ~45% WG duty for the majority of the run.

Spooling quicker i notice as well as g/s are up.

Not sure whats up with the knock values tho, you got any logs with WMI now?

Cheers Phil - spool does seem better now. WMI figures below.

haha class so you wont get lonely on the journeys lol

I did the 200 miler round trip to JBS yesterday without the radio on. Great soundtrack.

Your Tips Alive. A talking tip ... now thats a mod.
Great to see yours efforts worth while. Is this with the larger collar fitted on the turbo inlet.

The tip is 80 mm all the way now Carl, except for the collar. I've still got it sleeved, as originally with about 30mm of 70-80 mm reducer.

I ordered the big collar from ATP late last week. (Along with a boost guage that probably doesn't match any instruments, but has a nice Garrett logo)

T9 HB9 outside temp 7.0 degrees 20% WMI

Sunday	21	October	2007	19:27:05			
06A 906 032 HN		1.8L R4/5VT         0002					

'003				'020			
Idle speed	Air mass in	Throt Angle	Ignit Angle	Idle Stabilization	Idle Stabilization	Idle Stabilization	Idle Stabilization
 /min	 g/s	%	 °BTDC	 CF	 CF	 CF	 CF
2800	12.08	8.2	36	0	0	0	0
2840	48.22	96.1	26.3	0	0	0	0
3000	63.11	100	30	0	0	0	0
3160	75.31	99.6	27.8	0	0	0	0
3360	87.36	100	25.5	0	0	0	0
3600	108.75	100	13.5	0	3	3	3
3880	138.08	100	9.8	0	3	3	3
4120	170.39	100	7.5	0	3	3	3
4440	191.53	100	6.8	0	3	3	3
4760	203.14	100	6.8	0	3	3	3
5040	197.06	100	7.5	0	6	3	3
5280	198.25	99.6	8.3	0	6	3	2.3
5440	191.92	100	14.3	0	6	3	2.3
5680	202.5	100	10.5	0	5.3	2.3	1.5
5880	211.44	100	11.3	0	3.8	1.5	0.8
6040	212.11	100	16.5	0	3	0.8	0
6200	215.86	100	16.5	0	2.3	0	0
6400	220.75	100	18.8	0	1.5	0	0
6560	223.22	100	19.5	0	0.8	0	0
6720	222.86	100	21.8	0	0	0	0
6880	220.58	100	22.5	0	0	0	0
7000	215.78	100	19.5	0	0	0	0

Sunday	21	October	2007	19:28:57	
06A 906 032 HN		1.8L R4/5VT         0002			

'115				'031	
Engine Speed	Engine Load	Spec. Boost	Actual Boost	Lambda Factor	Lambda Factor
 /min	%	 mbar	 mbar		
2480	83.5	1370	1190	0.977	0.992
2560	97	1380	1270	0.969	0.961
2680	104.5	1270	1360	0.938	0.961
2800	91.7	1240	1370	0.977	0.977
2880	89.5	1270	1340	0.969	0.969
2960	90.2	1280	1340	0.977	0.961
3120	113.5	2000	1470	0.883	0.883
3240	127.1	2060	1610	0.828	0.828
3400	138.3	2130	1800	0.821	0.813
3640	154.9	2240	1960	0.789	0.805
3880	176.7	2410	2280	0.789	0.805
4120	191.7	2440	2540	0.813	0.805
4440	191.7	2440	2540	0.789	0.805
4800	191.7	2400	2540	0.805	0.805
5040	191.7	2380	2540	0.789	0.805
5240	191.7	2390	2440	0.789	0.805
5480	187.2	2390	2320	0.789	0.805
5680	187.2	2390	2380	0.789	0.805
5920	186.5	2400	2400	0.797	0.805
6120	182.7	2390	2390	0.789	0.805
6320	176.7	2400	2390	0.797	0.805
6520	175.9	2390	2390	0.789	0.805
6680	173.7	2360	2350	0.805	0.805
6840	166.9	2340	2400	0.789	0.805
6960	163.2	2280	2300	0.797	0.805
7120	159.4	2290	2350	0.75	0.805

Sunday	21	October	2007	19:31:40	
06A 906 032 HN		1.8L R4/5VT         0002			

'118				'032	
Engine Speed	Air Temp In	Boost Dut Cyc	Actual Boost	Idle O2 Adapt	Run O2 Adapt
700-6800 RPM	<=110 C	0-100% 	<=1800 mbar	-10.1	-10.1
 /min	°C	%	 mbar	%	%
2480	16	0	1210	2.6	-0.8
2560	15	0	1230	2.6	-0.8
2640	15	100	1270	2.6	-0.8
2800	15	100	1370	2.6	-0.8
2920	15	100	1470	2.6	-0.8
3120	15	100	1560	2.6	-0.8
3320	15	100	1690	2.6	-0.8
3520	14	100	1870	2.6	-0.8
3760	13	100	2100	2.6	-0.8
4000	14	82.7	2450	2.6	-0.8
4320	15	74.9	2540	2.6	-0.8
4560	15	63.5	2540	2.6	-0.8
4880	17	53.7	2540	2.6	-0.8
5160	18	38.4	2530	2.6	-0.8
5400	18	32.2	2400	2.6	-0.8
5600	18	34.1	2360	2.6	-0.8
5800	19	33.7	2400	2.6	-0.8
6000	20	31.4	2370	2.6	-0.8
6160	20	33.7	2380	2.6	-0.8
6360	21	38	2390	2.6	-0.8
6560	21	36.5	2440	2.6	-0.8
6680	21	35.7	2380	2.6	-0.8
6800	21	33.7	2390	2.6	-0.8
6920	21	30.6	2330	2.6	-0.8
7040	22	22.4	2300	2.6	-0.8
7160	22	16.1	2380	2.6	-0.8
6520	19	0	1580	2.6	-0.8
5680	12	0	1160	2.6	-0.8

Thanks everyone for reading

 

[PhilW]

Looks like theres way more to be had out of that turbo. You spoken to Kev about it?

What plugs and gap did you say your running dave?

 

[DPJ]

Looks like theres way more to be had out of that turbo. You spoken to Kev about it?

What plugs and gap did you say your running dave?

I'm sending Kev the logs tomorrow morning, Phil.

I'm running Denso Iridium IK22's with a standard gap. I've bought myself a proper gapping tool, but I didn't have time to regap them before the RR run.

Still worth a try though....

 

[PhilW]

Cool, be interesting to see what he makes of them.

Lookin at the logs now, full spool by roughly 4000 is pretty good from the apparently laggy eliminator, so your tip must be working well. I've seen most logs pointing to full spool by 43-4400.

I did read that with water/meth you can run basically a re-gapped standard plug as the risk of det is lowered. Wonder what your plugs are like, whethere theyre pointing at them being too cold a grade.

I'll be using BKR7E's regapped to .028" next as theyre cheap as chips and seem to be popular on Vortex.


Btw, i posted some logs on my maxed settings.

 

[DPJ]

Scan of JBS RR graph. (I had to go over the bhp line for the scan because it was so feint)

 

[Ruddmeister]

CF's have fallen back nicely with the WMI and G/s peaking around 220 ish which as you say is scaled, do you know what the scaled G/s converts to? is it close to the 300bhp at JBS.

Things look nice and healthy and more to come if you want it

 

[PhilW]

Dave, if your using a 375ml nozzle and say your injectors are running at 70% then your flow through your nozzle is too much!

No. of injectors... 4
Injector flow at 3 Bar.... 550cc
System fuel pressure.... 3 bar
Injector Duty Cycle... 70% (assumption)
Calculated Injector Flow....385 cc/min
Total Fuel Flow... 1540cc/min@

Engine Boost Level - 21-25psi
Nozzle size @ 60psig.... 375cc/min
Pump Pressure Rating... 180psi (or is it the 150psi version?)
Reccomended Mix 22% with gasoline
Actual Nozzle Flow....650cc/min
Reccomended Nozzle Flow... 430cc/min


Basically your pumping in too much water/meth according to these calcs.