Turbo Project

[Saul]

your right glyn, rob had to get an actuation arm fab'd to fit the 02a box to his ibia

 

[wicca]

because now the car is making 130ft/lb of torque
with the turbo it would be twice the amount- so I need stronger clutch and pressure plate

 

[hopkinsgm]

...because now the car is making 130ft/lb of torque...with the turbo it would be twice the amount...

I appreciate that, but you earlier posted this regarding gearboxes:

...why change it before it breaks???...

The two posts just seem to contradict each other. I'm curious how you've arrived at the conclusion that the clutch is not up to the job but the gearbox, which is not noted for its' power handling, will be ok. Personally, I think neither clutch nor box are up to the job. I appreciate that swapping to an 02A or 02J box will mean extra hassle and extra expense, but I don't reckon the 020 box will last long.

AFAIK, VW haven't used an 020 box on anything more grunty than a 1.8 16v (mk2 Golf/Jetta book figures 139bhp), but if anyone knows different then i'm happy to be proven wrong. I believe this to be due the limitations of the 'box - why would VW go to the cost of developing a revised box if the existing one was adequate?

If money is tight, then why not just assemble it with existing clutch & 'box and replace items as they blow up? If you change to a different box further down the line, then surely you'd replace the clutch then anyway?

 

[wicca]

look mate

the 020 box is not strong - but it is reliable.... not as the O2J though...
we all know when VW built the G60 series in all form whent to the cable change
02x type of boxes - which even look massive.

My point of view is as follows

I am building a daily driver - with about 250whp , or even maybe less.... I have no idea what the setup i have would give - I can only guess. what I want is a torquey kind of power all the way to about 6000 rpm. That is why I chose a relatively small turbo with quick spool. I want economy as well - when not pressing hard.

I am going to take care of this car - it is not a drag racer , nor it is to be abused. It means slow careful starts, not pressing much in 1st and 2ond.... more like roll on starts. That is why I am saying - I hope it would hold!!!

If it breaks of course I will change to cable box - the hassle is a bit too much - for me right now - and to do this swap I need the pedal box, the gearshift linkage, clutch assembly, and so much other stuff - If I have to I will do it.

My POV is that 020 in turbo cars has both lasted and has not....... and I reckon is down to driving style.... and it's limit is about 250ft/lbs as far as I know

to say the least it is my least concern at the moment.

getting the whole setup to work is a bigger concern right now.

 

[hopkinsgm]

Apologies wicca - it was not my intention to upset you, wind you up or whatever. An 020 may well hold together if you drive sedately and the turbo is not too brutal as it comes on boost. Or it may not. I have my concerns about how well an 020 will handle the power. As an engineer, I tend to be rather conservative where such things are concerned - i'd rather overspecify something and have a safety factor in hand than underspecify something and have it fail prematurely.

However, as it is your car, it is down to you what you will do with it, and how you will drive it. As you say, if the 'box proves to be a weak point, you can always uprate it at a later date if need be.

 

[wicca]

Apologies wicca - it was not my intention to upset you, wind you up or whatever. An 020 may well hold together if you drive sedately and the turbo is not too brutal as it comes on boost. Or it may not. I have my concerns about how well an 020 will handle the power. As an engineer, I tend to be rather conservative where such things are concerned - i'd rather overspecify something and have a safety factor in hand than underspecify something and have it fail prematurely.

However, as it is your car, it is down to you what you will do with it, and how you will drive it. As you say, if the 'box proves to be a weak point, you can always uprate it at a later date if need be.

cheers

I am not upset at all!!!

I know very well that 020 is not up to the job and I would have to take care laying down the power... I just don't have the time, the parts to do it for now....
as I am going to increase boost gradually - start at 0.3bar for run in and tests.... 0.6 for stage 1 - testing and testing again and again..... target is 1 bar but at steps.....

The easiest thing is to go straight to 1 bar and blow the thing apart......


the 020 is the weakest link in my project and I know it

 

[hopkinsgm]

Certainly sounds like an interesting project anyway - i'm looking forward to hearing more about it in the coming weeks/months. Let us know how it all goes eh? Keep us posted!

 

[wicca]

Oh I will




And I am hoping the car to be ready in a months time
I will provide pictures and videos


Let me ask you guys for some support !!!

I might need bigger brakes pretty soon ... any ideas ??? I have the 280mm off a G60 ( 1.816v Cordoba originally came with 256mm) but I reckon they would't be up to the job...there is a brembo kit I have seen (300mm or so with nice red callipers) .....

I may also need a clutch kit - Sachs Sporting is said to be the one - any ideas about prices>>>???

and finally - limited slip diff??? Quaife - but as you guys are there - any offers, discounts etc...

help me build the ultimate Cordie pleeeese

Offtopic - as Seat is not a very recognised brand in Bulgaria and SX is very rare I get a lot of hassle from streetracers - and I am also disguising the car as a sleeper - i.e. hide the conversion as much as possible..... I just want to show all Golf Mk4 turbos, Astras and the like ...

 

[ibizacupra]

look mate

the 020 box is not strong - but it is reliable.... not as the O2J though...
we all know when VW built the G60 series in all form whent to the cable change
02x type of boxes - which even look massive.

My point of view is as follows

I am building a daily driver - with about 250whp , or even maybe less.... I have no idea what the setup i have would give - I can only guess. what I want is a torquey kind of power all the way to about 6000 rpm. That is why I chose a relatively small turbo with quick spool. I want economy as well - when not pressing hard.

I am going to take care of this car - it is not a drag racer , nor it is to be abused. It means slow careful starts, not pressing much in 1st and 2ond.... more like roll on starts. That is why I am saying - I hope it would hold!!!

If it breaks of course I will change to cable box - the hassle is a bit too much - for me right now - and to do this swap I need the pedal box, the gearshift linkage, clutch assembly, and so much other stuff - If I have to I will do it.

My POV is that 020 in turbo cars has both lasted and has not....... and I reckon is down to driving style.... and it's limit is about 250ft/lbs as far as I know

to say the least it is my least concern at the moment.

getting the whole setup to work is a bigger concern right now.

020 box and turbo's torque is going to kill it.
small clutch also..

diff pins are a major worry, as are gears as a whole.. so much smaller.
you say reliable... but they're not more reliable than an 02A/J, and giev them more load they will surely fail sooner.

I have run 020 before on ~200bhp/170lbft 16v and broke it several times, stripped gears, collapsed diff bearings... (ATB diff and bolt kit in there)

Seriously consider an 02A/J so save yourself having an expensove 020 clutch which will be no use to you when you have a busted 020 box and then look towards an 02A/J

your choice... good luck.

 

[max_torque]

My point of view is as follows

I am building a daily driver - with about 250whp , or even maybe less.... I have no idea what the setup i have would give - I can only guess. what I want is a torquey kind of power all the way to about 6000 rpm. That is why I chose a relatively small turbo with quick spool. I want economy as well - when not pressing hard.

Er? havent you just perfectly described the std 1.8t engine here???

 

[ibizacupra]

the 1.8T with 9.5 comp ratio there is not much you can acheve with standard internals ... that turbo is too small ( KO3) - and you have to start all over again - pistons, manifold turbo, intercooler, ..... I find it a waste of money.

I beg to differ

turbo swap and its 350bhp level if you wish. no internal mods req'd from sensible boost levels.

 

[wicca]

I beg to differ

turbo swap and its 350bhp level if you wish. no internal mods req'd from sensible boost levels.

With all my respect -

1.8t are not very common in Bulgaria so sourcing such an engine is too much hassle - especially with its gearbox and ECU. Include the turbo upgrade - manifold injectors and remap...... that would be expensive to what I am to do .
I would be better off with buying 1.8t Cupra.....

My idea is to do that project by myself - aas much as I can ... rebuilding the engine in the process and adding a turbo conversion.... I have a passion to work on my car and personalise it.

it is done for passion , and not horsepower in the sense of creating the fastest SX out there.

I understand that there are a few pitfalls in my project - but it is better to know about them and seeing a way of getting around them, rather than ignoring them.

My project will not end up with the turbo conversion alone - the gearbox problems are a major worry to me .... and I will get areoud them at a later stage....

lets see what happens

 

[Red Ibiza VR6]

Yeah mate, I know where you are coming from, Seats are not common in Oz either. I know the 020 box can take heaps of abuse and its cheap to replace. Bolt it up I say

 

[ibizacupra]

With all my respect -

1.8t are not very common in Bulgaria so sourcing such an engine is too much hassle - especially with its gearbox and ECU. Include the turbo upgrade - manifold injectors and remap...... that would be expensive to what I am to do .
I would be better off with buying 1.8t Cupra.....

My idea is to do that project by myself - aas much as I can ... rebuilding the engine in the process and adding a turbo conversion.... I have a passion to work on my car and personalise it.

it is done for passion , and not horsepower in the sense of creating the fastest SX out there.

I understand that there are a few pitfalls in my project - but it is better to know about them and seeing a way of getting around them, rather than ignoring them.

My project will not end up with the turbo conversion alone - the gearbox problems are a major worry to me .... and I will get areoud them at a later stage....

lets see what happens

merely replying to your comments chap.
You said>>>>

"Originally Posted by wicca
the 1.8T with 9.5 comp ratio there is not much you can acheve with standard internals ... that turbo is too small ( KO3) - and you have to start all over again - pistons, manifold turbo, intercooler, ..... I find it a waste of money. "

...which is simply not accurate.
9.5comp is fine, std internals are surprisingly strong (as are 16v), K03 is small, pistons are fine, manifold and intercooler are also req'd for your 16v turbo conversion so no difference in requirement there.

Standard engine in mine did 320-350bhp for over 30K miles including a lot of track milage. 1.8t is a pretty robust power plant.

Not detracting from your 16vt project, which I wish you well on. I too have a turbo 16v manifold and large garrett sat waiting to go on it, if I ever get the time.

You are good to worry about the 020 box. Turbo technics 16v conversions of the late eighties generally resulted in munched 020 boxes from only ~200bhp/200lbft.
regards
bill

 

[wicca]

Thanks guys!!!


'Thanks for the support - I hope it holds together for the initial stages of the project - next winter I would go to 02x box most probably.....

please can someone tell me what I need off the junkyard to do this swap???

Is it gearbox, pedalbox, gearshift linkage only ???? or I need the change driveshafts/joints??? I am not very sure.... please help ...

I will bolt up the 020.... hope it hold up for summer and 0.5 bar boost ...

LSD and Strong clutch i am better off saving up for the 'cable change box - right???


ibizacupra - please help

Am I better off with a Passat G60 cable box - lower gearing? or Golf3 2.0 16v box???


also there are some 6 speed conversions for the 02x???? are they expensive???? something off the brakeyard???

 

[ibizacupra]

Thanks guys!!!


'Thanks for the support - I hope it holds together for the initial stages of the project - next winter I would go to 02x box most probably.....

please can someone tell me what I need off the junkyard to do this swap???

Is it gearbox, pedalbox, gearshift linkage only ???? or I need the change driveshafts/joints??? I am not very sure.... please help ...

I will bolt up the 020.... hope it hold up for summer and 0.5 bar boost ...

LSD and Strong clutch i am better off saving up for the 'cable change box - right???


ibizacupra - please help

Am I better off with a Passat G60 cable box - lower gearing? or Golf3 2.0 16v box???


also there are some 6 speed conversions for the 02x???? are they expensive???? something off the brakeyard???

You would need to check some ratios out for 02x boxes.. I use an 02A CDA box in my ibiza, which is slightly shorter geared than my 02A box was. VR6 02A's are long legged ratios like my 02J ibiza 20vt box. Get shafts off ibiza 20vt, CV's same as 16v model. 228mm clutch on 02A/J, lots of choice of uprated units. I run Spec stage 3+ for reference.
You will need the cable selector mechanism, ibiza 20vt is a good model to poach from, same as mk4 gti golf, convert clutch to same cable type as on 16v ibiza, with brackets to suit.

6spd are expensive. I have quaife 6spd dog box, Seqshift in Cz have gear kits tho, as do the likes of Drenth. 6spd 02M is big and very very heavy... wont fit straight in as g'box mount onto subframe would need to be moved.

Find a dead 1.8t ibiza or golf IV and rob its box and selectors.. be as good a starting place as any.

good luck

 

[wicca]

You would need to check some ratios out for 02x boxes.. I use an 02A CDA box in my ibiza, which is slightly shorter geared than my 02A box was. VR6 02A's are long legged ratios like my 02J ibiza 20vt box. Get shafts off ibiza 20vt, CV's same as 16v model. 228mm clutch on 02A/J, lots of choice of uprated units. I run Spec stage 3+ for reference.
You will need the cable selector mechanism, ibiza 20vt is a good model to poach from, same as mk4 gti golf, convert clutch to same cable type as on 16v ibiza, with brackets to suit.

6spd are expensive. I have quaife 6spd dog box, Seqshift in Cz have gear kits tho, as do the likes of Drenth. 6spd 02M is big and very very heavy... wont fit straight in as g'box mount onto subframe would need to be moved.

Find a dead 1.8t ibiza or golf IV and rob its box and selectors.. be as good a starting place as any.

good luck

wow thanks

what do you mean Spec stage 3+ >>> is it clutch and pressure plate???
also - the brackets for the clutch cable>>> are they to be tailor made or they can be sourced from somewhere???
Shafts- off Ibiza 20vt - only the shafs or with the inner CV joints???
I am a bit confused...

thanks thanks thanks

 

[hopkinsgm]

...Get shafts off ibiza 20vt, CV's same as 16v model...convert clutch to same cable type as on 16v ibiza, with brackets to suit...

Bill

Just to clarify and avoid potential headaches for wicca - when you say "16v Ibiza", are you referring to 2.0 16v (ABF) or 1.8 16v (ADL) here? I assume you mean 2.0 16v, but would be useful if you could confirm.

 

[acidstrato]

u say ur from Bulgaria? which area would that be?

have u done any europppean driving which could give me any idea as to how long it would take me to drive from the uk to bulgaria? (sveti vlas)

flights are beginning to get cheaper now but still not that cheap nor as regular as id like so taking the car might be quite fun. Would u know how long from the nurburgring?

so to hiijack ur turbo thread, very interesting read it was wish u all the best with it

 

[ibizacupra]

Bill

Just to clarify and avoid potential headaches for wicca - when you say "16v Ibiza", are you referring to 2.0 16v (ABF) or 1.8 16v (ADL) here? I assume you mean 2.0 16v, but would be useful if you could confirm.

ABF 16v, the one with cable change 02A box
use its factory clutch mechanism parts too.... find a donor 16v ABF dead ibiza and rob it to to the cordy project. Easiest way then.

20vt shafts same as 16v ABF shafts, complete, inner and outer.