Transmission Whine - DMF Problem?

[paul m]

Hi guys, hope someone could help with this....

My Car has an odd whine / whirring noise when on the throttle in an gears, more noticable in lower gears, it goes away when off the throttle or i dip the clutch. I was wondering if this was the sign of a failing DMF? Could anyone who has experienced this describe what the signs are? Or offer any alternative suggestions?

Gearbox has new oil, replaced by myself a few months back, car is an '05 Leon FR TDi with 83k.

Any advice much appreciated!

 

[Willie]

More likely your release bearing

 

[Captain Cupra]

If its not really loud then you may have a problem mine has a very faint wine in 1st and 2nd always has done but if it aint broke dont fix it.

 

[Murdered LCR]

This is good mines doing the same and I have just brought a new clutch , flywheel and realse bearing

 

[paul m]

Interesting - my clutch release bearing is a little noisey at idle - it did cross my mind. Is there a definitive way of being able to tell if its a CRB prior to stripping it down?

I assume if replacing the clutch you need to do the DMF at the same time as well? Typically, how much am I looking at for parts & labour at one of the specialists for this level of work (standard clutch)?

ta.

 

[Willie]

I'm not too sure about getting 100% proof that its the CRB but to do any of your other potenial changes I'd advise doing the CRB.
The DMF doesn't 100% need changed if doing the clutch but would be a good idea.
If you going to increase the performnce of this car then perhaps think about a SMF and performance clutch with OEM release bearing

 

[csd_19]

My 02M has had a whine since I bought the car 7 years and 84k miles ago... it never got any louder and has now done 101k miles

Hasn't stopped the 3rd/4th shift fork from playing up though

I did replace my DMF with a Helix SMF and clutch at around 50k, the DMF was giving a knock if you blipped the throttle at idle. When I got it out of the car there was noticeable free play between the two halves of the DMF.

 

[paul m]

have been quoted 2-300 to replace clutch+release bearing (assuming that the problem) which sounds fair,but out of interest are there any guides on here on how to diy?

 

[elviscat]

What does DMF stand for?

 

[paul m]

Dmf ?

could you expand a little?! What are the symptoms of a failing dmf?

 

[1228craig]

Dual Mass Flywheel

 

[Mint]

My 02M has had a whine since I bought the car 7 years and 84k miles ago... it never got any louder and has now done 101k miles

Hasn't stopped the 3rd/4th shift fork from playing up though

I did replace my DMF with a Helix SMF and clutch at around 50k, the DMF was giving a knock if you blipped the throttle at idle. When I got it out of the car there was noticeable free play between the two halves of the DMF.

I noticed a couple of days ago that i have that knocking when blipping the throttle but never really thought to much of it so you would say that my DMF is worn and will need to be replaced?
I also have a whining but only in 1st gear and only when comming off the throttle at low revs, higher revs is not so noticable.

 

[paul m]

just for reference, in case anyone else searches for these symptoms in the future - on my car it wasn't a failed CRB (CRB generally gets noisier when clutch is pressed, quiet when not pressed). It was the main bearing on the gearbox main shaft. I know this because it collapsed on the way to work with a horrible grinding noise last week!

After getting the AA to relay me home i started stripping the car down & found the bearing endcap & various large ball bearings / bits of bearing casing sat on the undertray. Not good.

Hoping to get the box off this evening & get it sent off for a rebuild - hopefully there won't be too much damage done.

So much for Germanic reliability.

 

[elviscat]

Sorry to hear that Paul! out of interest how many miles is on yours m8?

I have a whine also, and after replacing wheel bearings which needed doing anyway, had some grinding from front left which was inner and outter CV's, i still have a whine from the box, and without doubt i think it is this bearing.

I'm thinking of getting the box out to get his sorted, is this something that has to be done by a gearbox specialist or replacing this said bearing before it fails can be done hence less need for gearbox specialist!.

Is it difficult getting the box out of these, any pointers, maybe you could take some piccy's of your box removal.

I'm just putting a guide together for Cambelt, pulley tensioner and wish bone bushes, hopefully get these fnished in the next couple of days.

Thanks in advance

update

Took mine down to Gloucester Rd gearboxes and they test drove it, said i have nothing to worry about and simply gear sprockets wining as they spin which the level of whine was normal but not bearing thankfully, he did say however these boxes suffer from 1st and 2nd selecting fork snapping and if the the main bearing is going/gone it can work it's way through the gearbox wall evertually breaking through. New gearbox casing £300 and to do the main bearing £350

 

[karlR]

hi i have a wheel bearing type wine im sure is coming from nearside front.but its a new bearing ne ideas?

 

[paul m]

UPDATE: Well I found out what the problem was.....when the box went pop!!

Turns out the end bearing on the gearbox main input shaft was f*cked & broke up - spitting its contents onto the undertray & causing 5th gear to grind horribly.



To keep costs down I've decided to pull the box myself & get it sent off for repair.

I used a haynes manual (for a golf) for guidence & main steps ae below (usual disclaimers apply - I am not a qualified mechanic & this is just a basic guide):

- Remove engine cover
- Disconnect & remove battery
- Remove entire airbox assy
- Remove battery tray
- Loosen starter motor wiring from its clipping & disconnect from starter motor
- Unbolt top starter motor bolt
- Loosen wheel nuts & jack up car (support on axle stands)
- Remove Engine & passenger side undertrays / side shields
- Remove both front wheels
- Remove starter motor
- Disconnect any wiring / clutch hose (keep clutch hose vertically supported to avoid fluid spillage) from box
- Undo gearbox oil drain plug & drain oil from box
- <Back to the top> Disconnect selector cables from the box & undo the bracket from the top of the box, pull cables clear of box
- <Under car> Unbolt both driveshafts from the box (M10 spline bit required for this)
- Locate 3 bolts on lower wishbone which hold the upright to the wishbone & use a scribe to mark around the upright bracket relative to the wishbone (so everything goes back together in the same place!)
- Remove lower rear (dogbone) engine mount
- Undo the bolts & pull the upright away from the wishbone
- Pull the driveshafts away from the box & the upright away from the wishbone, tie the wishbone up out of the way
- Unbolt & remove diff output flanges (gives more space on box removal)
- Support weight of engine & weight of box seperately (I used a hoist on the engine & a trolley jack on te box)
- Unbolt & remove passenger side box / chassis rail mount
- Unbolt all gearbox / engine bolts
- Slide box off input shaft & somehow wiggle, jiggle, force & twist the box out from between the engine & subframe & onto the floor (this bit is tricky & you may need to drop the subframe a bit to give more clearance - I did!)

Obviously this is only a rough guide & I may have mixed up a fewsteps / missed some out. I hope it can help someone else in a similar sitation - or even just needing to do a clutch change)

I can't give a refit guide as the box is still away being repaired!!!

 

[GREG_R84]

My Car also has a whine / whirring noise when on the throttle in 1st and 2nd gear. It goes away when off the throttle or i dip the clutch. Its done it for about 2 years now and does my head in. Had the gear box oil changed and no change so now also think its the release bearing

 

[paul m]

doesnt sound like clutch release bearing. Sounds like my problem tbh (crb gets noisier when clutch is pressed, not quieter).

If it has been like it for 2 yrs you might be ok. If it gets worse.....!

 

[elviscat]

Greg, if it is the clutch release bearing it will not whine when the clutch pedal is not depressed and your just driving along. It is only when you push the clutch pedal down that the arm connects with the bearing and pushes this along the shaft to meet with the clutch mechanism face, it is when this is engaged and pushing against this face (clutch pedal down) if the CRB is fooked you will hear it whining

 

[armo]

iv had a DMF go on me and you get a rattle on idle similar to someone banging a hammer around the housing, also your starter motor will most probably jam up with the debris from the breakdown of the dmf. When a dmf completely goes on the 1.8t it will jam and make pulling away a horrible experience but the good news it it isnt normally much of a problem on a petrol, its diesel that they go on due to the vibrations from the engine, you dont get this on a petrol so they normally last alot longer.You will be looking at 2-300 for a new dmf plus 160 fitting if thats the problem, if its a 5 speed do a g60 c0nversion with a vr6 clutch but this cant be done on the 6 speed. hope you get it sorted pal