Slow 1.6 TDI

[Nick F]

Ah good point. I normally tend to avoid main dealers so I've not come across this sort of thing much. I go to a bloke in a nearby village who says things like "Your brake pads are worn but they'll be fine for at least another 5,000 miles" and then shows you the E-type or 1970s single-seater or whatever other exotica he happens to have in his side workshop that day.

I was thinking the dealer would be well placed to judge whether the car was OK - which I'm sure they would be. But as you say they've got a clear incentive to discover that it's not...

OK so here's plan 17B. I'll drive the car (properly) for another couple of weeks to see if I continue to get used to it - and I'll run a tank or two of the good stuff through it in the process. And if I'm still not happy after that I'll come back to the other ideas that have been suggested here.

Great forum - really glad I found it!

 

[BoomerBoom]

Or, if you are still concerned after that, take it to your local bloke and ask him to drive it - you should then get an honest opinion.

 

[Mr Pig]

I normally tend to avoid main dealers so I've not come across this sort of thing much.

I'd like think that not all main dealers are like this but I was shocked to find that any are.

We had the 1.6 TDi for years and trust me, you will never think it's fast enough. It isn't.

 

[KXL]

I normally use the dealers at Sidcup and Hastings. Once had the Leon in to fix a rattle somewhere (it's a common theme with Leons). Brought it in, two of them took it for a test drive without me and agreed there was a rattle they both heard and went about fixing it. When they did the once over, they must have noticed the condensed rear right light cluster, and ordered a replacment (without telling me). I was in a rush, so when the were done, I thanked them, and off I went. Perhaps they were meant to tell me. Two weeks later I got a call from them saying my rear light cluster had arrived and I should come in soon to get it replaced. Imagine my surprise I was like 'I didn't ask to fix the rear light, you must have mistaken me for someone else etc. The service guy then explained while they were fixing the rattle, they saw the cluster and ordered it and I was told (no I was not, but I did zoom off though). But anyway, it was a good surprise...this was in 2015 though, maybe things have gone south since!

 

[BillyCool]

Ah good point. I normally tend to avoid main dealers so I've not come across this sort of thing much. I go to a bloke in a nearby village who says things like "Your brake pads are worn but they'll be fine for at least another 5,000 miles" and then shows you the E-type or 1970s single-seater or whatever other exotica he happens to have in his side workshop that day.

I was thinking the dealer would be well placed to judge whether the car was OK - which I'm sure they would be. But as you say they've got a clear incentive to discover that it's not...

OK so here's plan 17B. I'll drive the car (properly) for another couple of weeks to see if I continue to get used to it - and I'll run a tank or two of the good stuff through it in the process. And if I'm still not happy after that I'll come back to the other ideas that have been suggested here.

Great forum - really glad I found it!

I've got a mechanic like that. Proper old school. He said the same about my pads in Feb, so they'll be due soon! At £20 an hour and no VAT, I'll miss him when he retires in a few years.

A TDI is never happy under 2000 revs as the turbo barely gets going. Push it up to 3000 revs before each gear change and see how it feels.

 

[Nick F]

Well what I did at the weekend was give in to my inner geek and find out exactly how fast I need to be going when I change up to keep the revs above 1500 in the new gear. (16, 26, 38 and 50 mph in case anyone's interested .) That can be my new lockdown hobby - speedo watching.

£20 an hour must be the cheapest mechanic in the UK - what a bargain.

 

[JayO MK3 236]

That all sounds about right, the torque band is pretty narrow in the 1.6 so below 1,500 the turbo isn't adding anything and once you go over 2,500 you are just wasting fuel. The 2.0 TDI pulls much harder, but still has the same torque band.

The DFP and other environment 'features' take a lot of engine power away, which is why I've given up on diesel.

You could try forcing a DFP regen, leave it in 4th while at 70mph for half an hour and see it that helps clear the exhaust - but I don't think you'll see much difference from an extra 20bhp, cars are only getting heavier.

I have a 66 plate 184 2.0 TDI with only 20k on the clock and I was finding that the pull would flatline after about 2000rmp.
I took it to get a remap which has significantly improved this! Massive torque and BHP boost from the remap taking peak BHP up to 236. Attached is my dyno run if your interested.

 

[Nick F]

Wow that's a big improvement. Has it affected your mpg much?

I'm getting on better with my 1.6 now - I just need to remember that nothing happens below 1500 rpm. It's actually not too bad between there and 2500 - still not exactly fast but nippy enough to stay out of trouble. Still not sure why it feels so different from the old Focus - that was probably a bit slower overall but didn't have the abrupt off/on feel that the Leon has - I guess it's just the way the turbos are set up.

 

[JayO MK3 236]

Wow that's a big improvement. Has it affected your mpg much?

I'm getting on better with my 1.6 now - I just need to remember that nothing happens below 1500 rpm. It's actually not too bad between there and 2500 - still not exactly fast but nippy enough to stay out of trouble. Still not sure why it feels so different from the old Focus - that was probably a bit slower overall but didn't have the abrupt off/on feel that the Leon has - I guess it's just the way the turbos are set up.

believe it or not my average MPG has gone up by about 10-15 according to the trip. Which is mostly normal driving round a city, I feel like I’m not having to plant my foot to get the same power delivery. Obviously if I was to constantly push my car up to the red line I would see a decrease but the map has made it completely feel like a new car. The way the car pulls from 50-100mph now is something else, if anyone else has a 184 I would highly recommend for the pure joy of driving.

 

[BillyCool]

believe it or not my average MPG has gone up by about 10-15 according to the trip. Which is mostly normal driving round a city, I feel like I’m not having to plant my foot to get the same power delivery. Obviously if I was to constantly push my car up to the red line I would see a decrease but the map has made it completely feel like a new car. The way the car pulls from 50-100mph now is something else, if anyone else has a 184 I would highly recommend for the pure joy of driving.

I've got a 184 and fitted a tuning chip 3 months ago. Similar to your remap, the car pulls better but I also get a real belt of torque between 3000 to 4000 rpm. I can still drive it very sensibly sub 2500 rpm and recently got 65 mpg driving 250 miles each way to Wales pottering along at 70 in 6th gear.

MPG is better all round and on a very well used route, I get about a 8-10% improvement on a regular basis. I was surprised at the difference.

I usually stick some V-Power through it as well (seems to like it) but due to lockdown and working from home, I've not been passed a Shell garage recently. It's had at least 2 tanks of Tesco and I want to see how it goes when I fill up with Shell later as I'm going past one.

I thought I'd abuse the extra power a bit more but I don't. It's really good for safer overtaking on my local rural roads (tractors and horseboxes mainly) and things like joining slip roads when you want the extra squirt to get on. Not even tried to get max speed which is probably c.140mph. Just nice to know it's there and you do sort of enjoy the having it but not hammering it. Only cost an extra £60 on insurance as well and since it's only £30 a year in tax, it's money well spent.

 

[Nick F]

Hmm that's really interesting. More power and better mileage.

Would there be any point in getting a 1.6 remapped? Or would that be daft? I'm not that bothered about max bhp or torque - but a more linear throttle response would be good and more mpg would be great.

And what are the downsides? There have to be some or I assume Seat would map their engines like this in the first place. I've read somewhere that you have to be careful not to over-stress your clutch. But if I was starting with 108 bhp and only giving it a mild tweak I can't see that being an issue.

 

[BillyCool]

Hmm that's really interesting. More power and better mileage.

Would there be any point in getting a 1.6 remapped? Or would that be daft? I'm not that bothered about max bhp or torque - but a more linear throttle response would be good and more mpg would be great.

And what are the downsides? There have to be some or I assume Seat would map their engines like this in the first place. I've read somewhere that you have to be careful not to over-stress your clutch. But if I was starting with 108 bhp and only giving it a mild tweak I can't see that being an issue.

Some might say not worth it but I did chip my old Mk1 110bhp TDI. I really wanted the 130 version but couldn't get one so got the 110 and chipped it. I just got about 20bhp more but it was enough to notice. The cars had the same engine etc so it wasn't a huge change. After 220,000 miles it still had the original clutch so can't have been that bad.

In terms of the stock set up from factory - the cars get a standard program to keep them within sensible limits and to meet their specification (power levels). There is wiggle room to tweak them, within reason. The higher performance/spec cars have more wiggle room as they generally already have uprated clutches etc. to deal with their power range.

In terms of my 184 TDI, my understanding (and this is only what I've read), is that compared to the 150 version, the 184 has a `better` clutch and `bigger` turbo as well as `better` brakes and the independant rear suspension. Therefore, an uplift of c.30-40bhp shouldn't be an issue for it.

As for you - might be worth contacting a couple of places and see what they think. It would make a slight difference but could probably cost you c.£500.

If you want a more linear response, you might be able to do that with the Carista app and dongle. That would cost you £25 and might be a cheaper way to see if that adds any value. The dongle can be used along with VAG DPF to monitor your DPF and do diagnostics, so it's a good thing to have anyway (Carista app is free for 30 days then you have to pay).

Plan B is man up and get a 2.0 TDI and go 150 or 184. That's when you start to have fun!

 

[Nick F]

Thanks Brian - really helpful.

I'll need to hang onto this one for a while but yep next time something with a bit more clout might be in order.

 

[BillyCool]

Thanks Brian - really helpful.

I'll need to hang onto this one for a while but yep next time something with a bit more clout might be in order.

I kept my Mk1 a lot longer than expected (10 years), so you've got plenty of time!

 

[Nick F]

Problem is everything will be running on hydrogen cells in ten years' time (allegedly) so there'll be a whole new set of rules to learn...