chispadete
Guest
how does torque increase a mere 10 and bhp nearly 20 then please. dont run a car in 3rd gear then same torque figure more bhp
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ben_leon
Guest
With the amount of arguing over the BHP/Torque and everything, you may as well have just started a new thread, and just post it as a question, and get the real answer to stop all of this!
Anyway, more tricks up your sleeves eh? What does this involve?
Ben
Anyway, more tricks up your sleeves eh? What does this involve?
Ben
You don't even need to increase torque to increase power, you merely need to maintain it higher up the rev range, e.g.
300lbft torque @ 3400rpm = 171bhp
300lbft torque @ 3000rpm = 194bhp
Same torque, 23bhp increase in power.
I've had similar dealings on my ST where I haven't increased torque figures, but by freeing up the engine (exhausts, CAIS etc.) I've been able to hold the peak torque for longer and increase my peak power figure (which doesn't tend to co-incide rev-wise with the peak torque anyway).
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There isnt an arguement on BHP/Torque, there just seems to be a forum warrior on the lose and wants to rock the boat... soon blow over and dissappear...With the amount of arguing over the BHP/Torque and everything, you may as well have just started a new thread, and just post it as a question, and get the real answer to stop all of this!
Anyway, more tricks up your sleeves eh? What does this involve?
Ben
As for the tricks up jonjays sleeve, I can only imagine he will answer, a magician never reveals the tricks of the trade... well not at the beginning anyway!
chispadete
Guest
this is to do with op car however so relevant in this thread. everyone looks at the graph and see lowest bhp before and highest after. sorry for seeing higher bhp before and lower bhp after. that is fact. rr should adjust for temps in room so shouldnt see such changes as someone has said after my reply to try and back up the reason yet that shows why it isnt right. a simple way to test is the car on a 0-60 or 1/4 with 260bhp and that torque it should be very fast. i believe it wouldnt be and would run slow times like a car with less power than rr says.
A rolling road should adjust for temperatures? How exactly would it know how much to adjust by!?!? If you're getting heat soak and soaring inlet temps, the RR just cannot know how to compensate for that, and the harsh reality is if you're down on power due to the heat, it's not the RR operators job to say "oh, well he would/I] have probably made another 20bhp if it was cold", and it would be meaningless if he did.
brad1
Guest
Same with strugers1, has his pd130 leon mapped to 176bhp and 320ftlb, then he got a exhaust, airfilter and allards fmic. Had it rolling roaded without it being tweaked with the new mods and made 194bhp and 322ftlb. I think chispadete is another one of these talking b0llocks again. If youve got a problem with the figures, speak to AmD instead of moaning about them on a forum. People like you make me sick about keep moaning about stuff when you know nothing about what has gone into the development of the motor. Ive been in this leon with "257bhp and 371ftlb" and i can say its a beast Now please dont ruin jonjay's thread anymore like you have, rant over
Now please dont ruin jonjay's thread anymore like you have, rant over chispadete
Guest
i am not moaning. im saying the rr makes no sense. just because you all *believe* that is your choice. any car that can loose 20hp due to heat soak after one rr run has issues.
Or its IC setup is not suited to a RR
Or the fans on the RR aren't flowing enough air
Or it was a really hot day....
Did you see my post about bhp/torque. Doesn't that answer some of your questions anyway?
I think that is what we commonly call, talking out of your ar*e mate,
I dont know where you live in the universe, but bhp and torque isnt the overall deciding factor on how and when a car does a 0-60 or quarter mile, you have to take into account the weight of the car, the traction it can have, the gearbox ratios, the temperature on the intake...blah blah blah...
The graph was put up on a readers ride page not "Have a look at my graph and poke holes in it" otherwise it would have been put up in the TDI tuning section or Turbo tuning section.
Those varied results have no fact in them unless you was there to witness the car thou its paces, i know for a FACT as i have seen/driven and followed this car from its beginnings, that it was in the process of about 3 maps in that week and on that very day it had JUST been mapped and still hadnt been settled into the car. It took near a whole week for the map to settle on the car.
The hose before and after was a mere show of flow and ability to the new pipes and not a BHP chasing, after all Jonjay and I was the first to point and argue if the RR was right because even we didnt believe the results, but after driving and to be mermory has been since RR'd again, its most definately in the 250bhp mark
I have chased and gained on cars MUCH higher in bhp.
LOL What you think this is a church of followers... this is a tried and test group of TDI owners that have high power modifcations to them, and we daily have to see and feel the problems with TDI's at the fore front of tuning them, What TDI do you own? If you did, you would understand heat soak on a TDi is massive, as they run at much higher temperatures at idle yet alone when pushed very hard, you add the modifications that we have done you would understand.
I think the only thing here with issues is you, with nothing (or any techincal TDI knowledge) to back it up.
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brad1
Guest
No it doesnt. Ive been in my mates hybrid leon and after a run, if he lets it sit running for 5 mins etc, and then go back out, you can feel it being sluggish where it has heat soak, then after a while you can feel the heat soak gone where the moving cooler air passing through the intercooler pipes cools inlet temps back down.
rscott4563
Guest
You really just don't get this do you, my advice would be to go away and sit down and work out the maths behind how it works. As has already been stated you don't even need to increase torque at all to increase bhp, it's all about what the torque is at a specific rpm.
Now I can't see the dyno graph at work (all the pics are blocked) but I'm assuming your quoting peak bhp figures and peak torque figures. The problem with this is these peak values are produced at different ends of the rev range. You need to be looking at the torque figure at the point the car is hitting peak bhp and see how the torque varies at that same point on both graphs.
For example you might dyno a car and it produces a peak torque figure of 350lbft at 2500rpm but only produces 200lbft at 4500rpm, this means this car will only have a peak bhp of 171bhp
You then tune the car or change some components and dyno the car again. It now has a lower peak torque value of 320lbft at 2500rpm but holds the torque better through the rev range and so still has 250lbft at 4500rpm, this car will then have a peak bhp of 214bhp. So the car has lost 30lbft (according to the peak figures) but has produced 42bhp more....
chispadete
Guest
see i prefer the likes of rscott who atleast tries to explain rather than rant like slick what car do you drive slick do you have 260bhp too. if the rr isnt set up right take it to another one. if its 260hp and runs down the 1/4 like other 260hp cars then its got 260hp like for like, so leon liek yours. i think the car looks awesome and i like the colour but dnt believe the graph no matter how many times people say heat soak to me, if it has 260 one minute then 240 the next due to heat soak then it doesnt have 260hp does it really, as that is a figure when cool, which if yourve jsut braked on a corner you aint got so will be warm and have 240hp its normal, 240hp is good anyway so dnt see the problem with jsut saying that myself
rscott4563
Guest
Chris, you can't start quoting a cars power by saying it only counts if it maintains the power after multiple runs with large amounts of heat soak. All power figures quoted for cars both by manufacturers and owners who have used dynos are the peak figures the cars can achieve not the figure after X amount of runs or with X amount of heat soak. You just can't go down that route otherwise it would be impossible to compare.
Also you have to realise (sorry if I'm telling you how to suck eggs) that a dyno booth generally irrespective of how good they say the ventilation or fans are will have a much lower air flow than will actually exist on the road at 80mph. I know for a fact (from personal experience) that my car was hitting intake temps of 60deg C after multiple dyno runs but on the road after 30 mins of non stop back to back WOT runs I don't see above 40deg C even though I'm pushing the car harder than the dyno did. This means that rather than the car having less power in real life than shown on the dyno it actually will have more as the normal intake temps will be lower.
Ryan
chispadete
Guest
the irony in this post alone shows how stupid you are.
i agree that heat soak is a part of a dyno run however how come this car suffers 20hp loss when other cars can go back to back, and have no loss at all.
rscott4563
Guest
Hot temps inside the dyno booth in comparison to the other runs, inadaquate air flow to the intercooler, less time between runs than others, intercooler isn't as big or efficient as others...etc etc There are numerous reasons why one car could suffer more than others with heat soak and so the only way to compare is just to use the maximum figure produced as the baseline. On another point regarding dyno figures, I also believe we should all be quoting wheel figures and not fly figures as there can be numerous differences/errors (and operator fiddling) which can affect the calculation of the transmission losses and the subsequent flywheel figure. If we all just used the wheel power figures produced it would be a lot more accurate and in the end it's only what gets put down on the tarmac that matters....
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