Insurance repair opinion - front-end damage to SEAT León FR

[AndrewA]

Hi all, long time reader but first-time poster. Hoping for some advice from fellow SEAT and CUPRA enthusiasts.

Ì recently had a shunt on a wet and muddy country lane resulting in front-right damage to my SEAT León FR Estate. My León has thus had a bit of a spread of damage on the front-right corner, which I'd very much like to be repaired.

It's gone to the bodyshop, who've looked and said it just crossed into the 'yellow' category of their rating system, so they had to refer it to the insurer. We're talking about a few £100s over the threshold. Admiral insurance has since decided its a "write-off". We all know it will get repaired eventually, but I'd like it to be repaired by the insurer and have it back.

The damage, as can be seen from the images, is most significantly to the front-right headlight (which was pushed back), the bumper and the front-right wing. The bonnet is repairable (has a small fold near the top corner of the grille) and just needs a couple of new hinges. The only damage you can't see is the front-right chassis arm, which is slightly bent and will just need a hydraulic ram to push it back (i.e. no parts).

Car drove fine after the incident, only warning was the broken headlamp. No airbags deployed etc. Speed of impact was probably 15 mph, into a pickup truck (which is probably what saved the bonnet, as it had a higher bonnet line).

I've been told that the insurer's repairer estimates c. £7,200 to repair. I think that's rather high. I understand that this car might be valued at c. £12,000 (mileage is lowish at c. 45,000) based on my own research - the insurer hasn't disclosed to me their valuation yet. Other than the ugly cosmetic state its in now its got new Goodyear tyres on and is well serviced with no other defects or scratches around. On that basis, the (high) repair cost comes out at c. 60% of the car value, which I think is borderline?

Any advice on negotiating with the insurer to get the car repaired and back to me (without having to go down the write off and buy-back as a Cat N route which would obviously affect future resale value)?

One thought I had is that as I have access to another car, I am in no rush to get it back. I can tell them there is no need for a courtesy car and associated costs. I feel that insurers may be predisposed to moving quickly, and writing off cars which need not be written off, because paying out sometimes allows a driver to get back on the road with another vehicle quicker. We all know this car will get repaired anyway.

 

[SRGTD]

Sorry to hear of your car’s damage. Hopefully no one was injured, which IMHO is the most important thing.

From what I’ve read, Different insurance companies will use different ‘repair to value‘ ratios when assessing whether a car is written off or not. Repair to value ratios usually fall within the range of 50% - 60%, so if your insurance company uses a figure of 50%, then based on estimated repair costs of £7,200 for a vehicle valued at £12,000, it does seem likely they‘d declare it a write-off.

Some points to consider in preparation for discussions with your insurance company;

• Is the Insurer‘s valuation of your car realistic?; IMHO it’s important your insurance company is using a realistic retail value of a car of the same age, make, model, spec, condition and mileage as yours which accurately reflects what it would cost to buy an equivalent car from a car dealership. If possible, try and establish the source of information they use for vehicle valuation purposes so you’re in a good position to challenge their valuation if you feel it’s unrealistically low. Also, ensure they’re not using the trade value (I believe some insurers might, as it’s beneficial for them when settling claims for vehicles that are declared to be a total loss).
• Do your own research on repair costs; get some independent estimates from two or three insurer-recommended bodyshops of what it would cost to repair your car, so you can challenge your insurance company’s repair estimate if you need to.
• Ensure you’ve got a range of values of cars current for sale (AutoTrader, Seat dealerships) that are as close a possible to yours - age, mileage, condition, spec etc.) that you can use in negotiations with your insurance company - e.g. if they declare your car written off but your research shows the repair to value ratio is less than the ratio they use (you’d need to establish what that ratio is).
• Ask your insurer how much they allow in their repair estimate for the provision of a courtesy vehicle, bearing in mind you won’t require one. Get the insurance company’s to confirm they’ve deducted this cost from their estimate; as you’ve said, removing this cost may change your vehicle’s status from write-off (if that’s the insurance company’s intention) to repairable.
• Keep a written record of any discussions you have with your insurance company; ideally provide them with copies, as it then eliminates any issues regarding what was or wasn’t discussed or agreed if you need to refer back to previous discussions.

Good luck. I hope everything works out OK . Please keep this discussion topic updated with developments for the benefit of other forum members if they ever find themselves in a similar situation to yourself.

 

[TripleBob]

The issue you have is the insane cost of new OEM parts - you’re looking at over £1k just for the headlight unit, before you even start on body panels etc, then labour and painting costs on top of that. Realistically they’ll say they need to repaint the entire front end, and as the wing is damaged they’ll want to blend that paint across onto the door too. Radar has been knocked loose, so that will at the very least have to be ADAS calibrated to make sure it still works - so their cost to repair probably isn’t that far wrong, working on the assumption that insurers always get charged top dollar on labour costs etc

 

[AndrewA]

Yes everyone was fine, thankfully. It was just an awkward bump on the back lanes.

Not a stance I want to take straight away, but does anyone have experience on negotiating on the costs? I'm thinking if I said I could offer an extra, for example, £250 excess, to cover some of the costs, to nudge it back into the 'ok, let's repair this car' side of things? In the long run, since I want to keep the car, it's probably more economical to me to get it repaired through the insurance than it is to accept a payout.

I get the OEM parts are pricey, and the light and bumper are the big ticket items. But the wing is ABS plastic, can't cost that much surely?

I'm lucky in that it genuinely doesn't affect my mobility or transport arrangements in the coming weeks and months, as we have three cars in a two-adult household.

 

[TripleBob]

I’d ask and see exactly what they’re budgeting to replace - as you’ve no idea if for example they’re saying you need a new bonnet etc. I know you’ve said it can be repaired and needs new hinges, but what did the insurance assessment say?

There’s also potentially the chance for you to source some replacement items from breakers yards (such as the headlight) and self install it - reducing the amount they need to budget for repairs. They won’t pay for the parts, but you may find that they’ll cover the cost of painting if you are supplying a ‘new’ bumper for example

This is brand new and much cheaper than the circa £1200 they’ll be budgeting for a new one

 

[AndrewA]

I approached a couple of other garages for repair costs, although obviously as the car is at the insurers' chosen place at the moment, I can't take it in.

Two have declined to quote, saying "we are unable to quote for repairs as we do not repair insurance total loss vehicles. They have also advised that our estimate price would be much higher due to us having to quote at retail prices where the other repairer would have quoted at insurance contract rates."

Is this normal? Seems a bit suspect to me? Do repairers get annoyed at being asked to quote to benchmark prices? The insurer has said I can take the car elsewhere to be repaired if I wish, but finding somewhere doesn't seem straightforward.

 

[LeylandVCDS]

Sincerely hope you can get it repaired, and glad everyone was OK.

Looks like your motor is a sister-ship to mine - my original reg was DK19ZVS!

 

[AndrewA]

Here's a detailed list of the work proposed and the parts included. Couple of observations from my part - there are items on here which are undamaged. For example, the front grille is undamaged, yet it is quoted at replacement totalling £301 (1xgrille and 1xradiator grille trim). The quote includes a new radar (£724!) which was only dislodged and did not take an impact. In fact, if you study the damage in my photos, its quite clear how the accident saw the headlamp take the brunt of the impact, with damage seemingly only to the immediate areas surrounding the headlamp.

My thoughts are if those parts even need replacing. The radar if not replaced will require recalibration I would expect. Not replacing them reduces the parts bill by over £1,000 alone.

There's no rush with this. The bodyshop closes for Christmas, so will be little progress in next two weeks. After that, I'm considering if its best to call in in person and discuss / be talked through the damage.

@LeylandVCDS - nice colour on your car!

 

[adam davies]

Hi all, long time reader but first-time poster. Hoping for some advice from fellow SEAT and CUPRA enthusiasts.

Ì recently had a shunt on a wet and muddy country lane resulting in front-right damage to my SEAT León FR Estate. My León has thus had a bit of a spread of damage on the front-right corner, which I'd very much like to be repaired.

It's gone to the bodyshop, who've looked and said it just crossed into the 'yellow' category of their rating system, so they had to refer it to the insurer. We're talking about a few £100s over the threshold. Admiral insurance has since decided its a "write-off". We all know it will get repaired eventually, but I'd like it to be repaired by the insurer and have it back.

The damage, as can be seen from the images, is most significantly to the front-right headlight (which was pushed back), the bumper and the front-right wing. The bonnet is repairable (has a small fold near the top corner of the grille) and just needs a couple of new hinges. The only damage you can't see is the front-right chassis arm, which is slightly bent and will just need a hydraulic ram to push it back (i.e. no parts).

Car drove fine after the incident, only warning was the broken headlamp. No airbags deployed etc. Speed of impact was probably 15 mph, into a pickup truck (which is probably what saved the bonnet, as it had a higher bonnet line).

I've been told that the insurer's repairer estimates c. £7,200 to repair. I think that's rather high. I understand that this car might be valued at c. £12,000 (mileage is lowish at c. 45,000) based on my own research - the insurer hasn't disclosed to me their valuation yet. Other than the ugly cosmetic state its in now its got new Goodyear tyres on and is well serviced with no other defects or scratches around. On that basis, the (high) repair cost comes out at c. 60% of the car value, which I think is borderline?

Any advice on negotiating with the insurer to get the car repaired and back to me (without having to go down the write off and buy-back as a Cat N route which would obviously affect future resale value)?

One thought I had is that as I have access to another car, I am in no rush to get it back. I can tell them there is no need for a courtesy car and associated costs. I feel that insurers may be predisposed to moving quickly, and writing off cars which need not be written off, because paying out sometimes allows a driver to get back on the road with another vehicle quicker. We all know this car will get repaired anyway.

Personally I think your better of arguing over a settlement figure so that you get book value for the car, buy it back and repair with a local guy who will repair it for 1/5 of the cost of crappy insurance repair place. At least then you can drive the car into the ground sell it and you have a lump of money from the payout and sale to get another car in a few years time. It won't be a cat n it will be s if the value of the repair is so high.

 

[Mr Pig]

Take the money and run.

Any money you save by keeping the car and having it fixed you're going to lose again when you try to sell the car. If you can sell the car! Lot of people will not buy a write off car, I wouldn't, and most insurers won't give you comprehensive insurance one on.

I know you like it an all but it's only a car. take the money and move on.

Incidentally, do not take the first offer. Keep rejecting the offers until they won't increase it any more.

 

[AndrewA]

Quick update, still considering options. Here's a photo of the chassis leg.

I'm also not convinced the radar unit is broken, as it didn't hit anything (met a Toyota Hilux so a much higher ride height at the elevation of the radar on the SEAT and it was an off-centre collision as evidenced by the damage around the right-front headlight). Probably just a broken bracket and needs recalibration.

 

[AndrewA]

The scores are in...

Car valued at £11,080 pre-crash (challenged it, and got a <drum roll> £3 increase... I think that's still too low for a 47k mileage car, but probably not that far out.
Option to buyback = £3,100. However, due to the slight chassis leg damage, it's a Cat S

Therefore, repair budget if keeping it is, I guess, £7,500 minus 25% of the assumed value £11,080

Which leaves £4,730 to enact a repair and not be notably out of pocket in the future.

Given that the bodyshop quoted £7,200 for repairs, looks like it won't be viable. Yes, pattern parts will reduce the parts bill, and not including the radar (which I'm really not sure is damaged) will also lower the cost.

If I do accept the payout, I guess the car will likely go off to auction, then get fixed up by someone in their 'spare time' or an individual working without being part of a larger organisation, possibly repairing the car with more corners cut to get it fixed and sold on...

Finally, here's a picture of the front end from the bodyshop yard after it's been inspected behind the bumper.

 

[TripleBob]

Sad as it is, I’d just take the payout and walk away. Try rejecting the payment amount though and see if they’ll go any higher. No sense buying back a Cat S though I’m afraid

 

[AndrewA]

I accepted the payout in the end. Reluctantly.

Anyway, here is 2019 SEAT LEON FR TS DK19 ZPY now listed on Copart for auction next Friday.

Online Vehicle Auctions Copart UK: Salvage & Used Cars, Trucks & More

Join live online vehicle auctions and bid to buy salvage & used cars, trucks, motorcycles, construction equipment, boats, fleet vehicles and more.

www.copart.co.uk

Intriguingly, the (likely) fully functioning front radar sensor (which may well have pushed the car into a write-off in the first place) appears to have gone missing...

 

[AndrewA]

Sold on Copart for £3,750. If the buyer somehow finds this thread by searching the plates, and wants any further info or documentation, they can direct message me. I still have a key which didn't get handed over to the bodyshop as I wasn't at that time led to believe it wouldn't be coming back to me!

 

[AndrewA]

Also, if anyone is wondering what I went for to replace my old Leon, I elected for a CUPRA Leon VZ2 Estate (DSG eHybrid).

 

[Carl Levoir]

I had almost the same accident in Sept, which wrote off my 67 Reg 82k diesel Leon. I really like the car and was offered £8700

No doubt rebuilt and back on the road by now!!!

 

[AndrewA]

It is frustrating. The insurance companies do their customers (and ultimately, everyone) a disservice by making it difficult. If you're in a crash which is not your fault, I can understand really wanting the indemnity of OEM parts and repair. But if, like me, you're at fault, but would be willing to accept non-OEM parts in places, why make it so hard? Also the fraud involved - that someone along the way (either at FixAuto Oswestry or Copart Chester) has swiped the radar, probably sold it on eBay, and that part alone probably tipped it in to being uneconomical to repair - is crazy.

 

[AndrewA]

Can you spot the radar (photo from Copart now that the link is no longer active)? No, I didn't think so... I also emailed posing as an interested buyer and they couldn't confirm it had a radar unit.