Is there such a thing as too anal.. 
Nope I dont think so!
Continuous search for perfection? maybe
Nope I dont think so!Continuous search for perfection? maybe
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Grahams81-Leon 4wd, Big Turbo - Back in the saddle :-)
- Thread starter grahams81
- Start date
Is there such a thing as too anal..
Continuous search for perfection? maybe
Yeh your right, continuous search for perfection or shortened to OCD
Jesus, some serious time and effort gone in here.. Amazing work mate, keep it up
Thanks Mike, really appreciate the comments
Cheers mate, sorry no real update.... Other than i went back in the garage yesterday for a couple of hours and ripped the manifold back apart
I'm off to Ireland with work today, im away all week but when im back im off till the second week in January
I've decided to go with the Eurodyne Maestro 7 software, for those who don't know it uses the standard ecu but flashes a programmable software system on it so the user can adjust everything, remove options like SAI etc.
I will have to provide my spec list to Chris Tapp and he will write a map somewhere near what i need. He has a very good rep over on vwvortex with the U.S guys.
Doing a bit of forward planning for the spec list and i know my standard inlet manifold is not going to be ok at the flow levels im going to put through it. I did contemplate making a homebrew one with a bigger plenum and the agu runners but quite honestly i can't be arsed !!!!
So i will need to start fabbing up turbo pipes etc once i've finished the turbo manifold, So i thought i would go with the best manifold the SEM largeport with a 80mm opening, the only problem is the throttle is on the wrong side so i will have to run the turbo outlet pipe behind the radiators and into the intercooler, no biggy really.
So due to the type of turbo i've got i'm gonna have to rev it hard, i have also got a price for some of Integrated Engineering IECVA1's Street / Strip camshafts, they are the daddies...gave over a 100bhp on there dyno motor over OEM so i think money well spent
Also getting a price for some 1000cc injectors and a dual 044 surge tank
So apart from all that the only thing to buy will be an intercooler, 75mm or 80mm throttle body and some big silly brakes..... some wheels...... Respray...... Or and some Buckets.
At least it'll be worth it
Agreed, strapping a couple of prefabs onto a car is not building
Needs submitting to http://www.build-threads.com/ once it nears completion.
Needs submitting to http://www.build-threads.com/ once it nears completion.
Cheers James, i managed to get mine for $750, quite happy with that as i wan't to do a bit of tinkering myself.... Of course after some serious research.
Wow. A lot of people call their RR a "build thread" but this really is a BUILD thread
Cheers mate, really appreciate it.... Although i'm gonna just buy an inlet manifold complete, hope you guys don't think any less of me
If i had a AC TIG welder that could do ally i would have made one but it would have been too much hassle to have it welded up.
Cheers M0rk, i'll have a look on that website when i get a few mins spare..
Again thanks for all the messages of support guys, this forum is great
So it appears i have dropped a bollock....
I did quite a bit of research before i bought the parts for the manifold, everybody i found making mani's were using 1.5" either schedule 10 or the thicker 40, so i made the decision to go with the schedule 10 1.5" 316 stainless weld butt fittings.
I just happened to be searching for pics of manifolds on the internet last night and had a look on the Full Race website (manifold / welding **** !!!)
They make several different manifolds for Evo's, they make a "response" manifold for those wanting quick spooling with instant power, this is basically by changing the header size from 1.5" down to 1.25" 37mm ID apparently well suited for those looking for power between 500-800whp
They also make a big runner version for drag race customers with heavily ported heads, cams and +35psi......
I did think my 1.5" pipe ID was quite a bit bigger than the exhaust outlet from the head.
So i did a bit more reasearch and i found a size on VWVortex, it said the Exhaust outlet from the head is 34.8mm.
So the ID of the Schedule 10 1.5" i have is 42.7mm, for those that can't do maths thats 7.9mm bigger than the port, thats a lot of volume to fill.....hhhmmm stupidly big turbo, really long manifold (24" long runners) and big pipes = slllllooooowww spool up.
The 1.25" sch10 pipe ID is 36.6mm this is a better size for the manifold and will dramatically reduce the volume of the headers and spool the turbo up faster, especially when my manifold is a long design. The smaller diameter will reduce the expansion of the hot gasses keeping them hotter and flowing faster.
I understand the standard manifold is bigger than the port, i.e stepped - most people say that step is to try and reduce the back flow of gases flowing back into the cylinder due to cam overlaps etc.
I would imagine that the step is of greater importance with a standard log style manifold that has very poor exhaust gas scavenging and is single scroll.
With the twin scroll design the exhaust gas scavenging will be much better, this means the exhaust gas is drawn or sucked out of the cylinder.
This is due to the 2 paired cylinders, as one energy pulse passes the merge point of the paired cylinder it creates a negative pressure behind it, that negative pressure pulls the gasses from the other cylinder.
This also leads to lower cylinder temps so det can be reduced.
After i did some more research i found a couple of guys on various sites who seemed to know there stuff, most said the difference in runner size can make a difference by 3-400rpm.
So after getting a turbo bigger than originally planned (laggier) i think i should go the extra mile and remake the manifold in 1.25" to try and spool it as fast as possible.
Plus if Full Race say there Evo Response manifolds are ok for upto 800 Wheel HP then it's gonna flow more than enough for me.
I'm gonna order a load of 1.25 Schedule 10 fittings and pipe so when i get back from Ireland i can start remaking the collector and manifold.
So i spent the best part of 4-5 days working on the manifold thats wasted but hey it was good practice..
Oh well you live and learn.
I did quite a bit of research before i bought the parts for the manifold, everybody i found making mani's were using 1.5" either schedule 10 or the thicker 40, so i made the decision to go with the schedule 10 1.5" 316 stainless weld butt fittings.
I just happened to be searching for pics of manifolds on the internet last night and had a look on the Full Race website (manifold / welding **** !!!)
They make several different manifolds for Evo's, they make a "response" manifold for those wanting quick spooling with instant power, this is basically by changing the header size from 1.5" down to 1.25" 37mm ID apparently well suited for those looking for power between 500-800whp
They also make a big runner version for drag race customers with heavily ported heads, cams and +35psi......
I did think my 1.5" pipe ID was quite a bit bigger than the exhaust outlet from the head.
So i did a bit more reasearch and i found a size on VWVortex, it said the Exhaust outlet from the head is 34.8mm.
So the ID of the Schedule 10 1.5" i have is 42.7mm, for those that can't do maths thats 7.9mm bigger than the port, thats a lot of volume to fill.....hhhmmm stupidly big turbo, really long manifold (24" long runners) and big pipes = slllllooooowww spool up.
The 1.25" sch10 pipe ID is 36.6mm this is a better size for the manifold and will dramatically reduce the volume of the headers and spool the turbo up faster, especially when my manifold is a long design. The smaller diameter will reduce the expansion of the hot gasses keeping them hotter and flowing faster.
I understand the standard manifold is bigger than the port, i.e stepped - most people say that step is to try and reduce the back flow of gases flowing back into the cylinder due to cam overlaps etc.
I would imagine that the step is of greater importance with a standard log style manifold that has very poor exhaust gas scavenging and is single scroll.
With the twin scroll design the exhaust gas scavenging will be much better, this means the exhaust gas is drawn or sucked out of the cylinder.
This is due to the 2 paired cylinders, as one energy pulse passes the merge point of the paired cylinder it creates a negative pressure behind it, that negative pressure pulls the gasses from the other cylinder.
This also leads to lower cylinder temps so det can be reduced.
After i did some more research i found a couple of guys on various sites who seemed to know there stuff, most said the difference in runner size can make a difference by 3-400rpm.
So after getting a turbo bigger than originally planned (laggier) i think i should go the extra mile and remake the manifold in 1.25" to try and spool it as fast as possible.
Plus if Full Race say there Evo Response manifolds are ok for upto 800 Wheel HP then it's gonna flow more than enough for me.
I'm gonna order a load of 1.25 Schedule 10 fittings and pipe so when i get back from Ireland i can start remaking the collector and manifold.
So i spent the best part of 4-5 days working on the manifold thats wasted but hey it was good practice..
Oh well you live and learn.
Finish off the mani you've made and patent it for future, could make yourself a nice number
Anyway best of luck and you'll probably only have to make the new one once after all this practise.
Really enjoying the build Graham.
Anyway best of luck and you'll probably only have to make the new one once after all this practise.
Really enjoying the build Graham.
Bad news matey
Yeh mate it kinda is.... just a waste of money and my time.
So i've just ordered all the 1.25" fittings from colglo.
Also just ordered another T4 divided turbo flange in 12mm stainless with M10 tapped holes, The one i have been working with was ordered off ebay and it came in 10mm stainless with drilled holes and there was't really enough space for nuts on the collector side.
I also ordered another head flange so when im finished the car i can maybe make another manifold and sell it to recoup some of the money off the fittings etc.
Also ordered a tight radius 3" stainless 90 bend, 2 long radius bends and a length of straight pipe to make the downpipe.
I love internet shopping
edit --- wow you guys type quick, cheers for the comments lads. Like they say practice makes perfect !!! i think i will be on version 5 of the mani when i get back.....
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Mmm I might be interested in buying some of the 1.5" stuff.
Where did you get the head flange from?
Where did you get the head flange from?
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I may keep it all and make a shorter normal top mount manifold, havn't made my mind up yet...
And here you go mate -
http://www.nortechperformance.com/categories/Audi{47}VW/Golf/Flanges/
This is where i get my butt weld fittings from -
http://www.colglo.co.uk/productlistallinone.php?category=2185237e0001
There really cheap and normally deliver fast.
And here you go mate -
http://www.nortechperformance.com/categories/Audi{47}VW/Golf/Flanges/
This is where i get my butt weld fittings from -
http://www.colglo.co.uk/productlistallinone.php?category=2185237e0001
There really cheap and normally deliver fast.
Crikey, that's not cheap is it. Going to get a quote off a local laser cutting company.
Looking forward to building my top mount mani, looks like lots of fun
Looking forward to building my top mount mani, looks like lots of fun
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