Funny shapes on the map

[Formentor 21]

Any idea what the funny shapes are on the navigation screen when a route is programmed?
It can't be electric range. Not a biggie but is weird and bugging me, especially when the shape of it changes so dramatically

 

[Peyton]

I don't own a hybrid but I think I saw someone commenting that it is a pure electric range.

Given that your mpg and battery charge changes constantly and that not all paths are the same length, the shape changes.

On my petrol Formentor that shape does not come up.

 

[Tell]

The example of where you need the integrated infotainment system that some fight against .

 

[AndyCupra93]

The example of where you need the integrated infotainment system that some fight against .

It’s hardly a good enough justification for integrated navigation systems that go outdated - No reason why smartphone apps can’t provide the same functionality with a bit of development effort.

 

[Tell]

Not out dated thou. Although if you plug your Smartphone phone in you can reject the integration like TSR and the rest of the integrated functions. Poor man's alternative .

 

[Tell]

I don't own a hybrid but I think I saw someone commenting that it is a pure electric range.

Given that your mpg and battery charge changes constantly and that not all paths are the same length, the shape changes.

On my petrol Formentor that shape does not come up.

Yep. It's demonstrated in this ID3 video:

 

[AndyCupra93]

Not out dated thou. Although if you plug your Smartphone phone in you can reject the integration like TSR and the rest of the integrated functions. Poor man's alternative .

Not outdated *yet*. Give it 4-5 years…

 

[Tell]

The infotainment system design is redeveloped by VAG on a traditional 5 year lifecycle of launches, mib1, mib2, mib3. RNS before. It can be expect mib4 in 2025, mib5 in 2030, unless they call it something else. The hardware can get improved during that period but the design of the screens stays basically fixed. Mib2 had a mib2.5 but that didn't really come to Seat.

The firmware is changed atleast annually during the period but is generally not applied to existing vehicles by dealers unless there are recognised faults. Mib3 some as you read on threads have been applied by dealers or planned.

User Mib3 self firmware updates have yet to appear. The type where users want the latest but dealers don't offer it but available thru retrofitters and community support. Not yet it appears, probably too early in the life cycle. Hobbyists haven't got their hands on these cars yet.

Map releases have followed a 5 year update period on Mib. Puts 2025 as the likely last release of mib2 maps across the brand. Mib3 all map releases across the brand are via paid services which is a mute point as to when they may stop against the lifecycle of the mib version. Would put mib3 at 2030 if the same life cycles are maintained. That one depends on whether "mib4" is a major reworking which leads to the map file redesigned. It has been in all others and whether mib3 maps pay for themselves etc.

 

[Peyton]

The infotainment system design is redeveloped by VAG on a traditional 5 year lifecycle of launches, mib1, mib2, mib3. RNS before. It can be expect mib4 in 2025, mib5 in 2030, unless they call it something else. The hardware can get improved during that period but the design of the screens stays basically fixed. Mib2 had a mib2.5 but that didn't really come to Seat.

The firmware is changed atleast annually during the period but is generally not applied to existing vehicles by dealers unless there are recognised faults. Mib3 some as you read on threads have been applied by dealers or planned.

User Mib3 self firmware updates have yet to appear. The type where users want the latest but dealers don't offer it but available thru retrofitters and community support. Not yet it appears, probably too early in the life cycle. Hobbyists haven't got their hands on these cars yet.

Map releases have followed a 5 year update period on Mib. Puts 2025 as the likely last release of mib2 maps across the brand. Mib3 all map releases across the brand are via paid services which is a mute point as to when they may stop against the lifecycle of the mib version. Would put mib3 at 2030 if the same life cycles are maintained. That one depends on whether "mib4" is a major reworking which leads to the map file redesigned. It has been in all others and whether mib3 maps pay for themselves etc.

I don't understand why the map updates need to be paid.

The cars all come with a navigation system, or at least vast majority of cars. They are selling cars constantly so the stream of revenue is constant. Why do they make cars feel outdate when you realize a roundabout that was built 3 years ago is still not visible in your navigation?

It feels like a petty cash grab that could easily be covered by miniscule increase in price of the car or by just reducing profit slightly.

 

[Tell]

I don't understand why the map updates need to be paid.

The cars all come with a navigation system, or at least vast majority of cars. They are selling cars constantly so the stream of revenue is constant. Why do they make cars feel outdate when you realize a roundabout that was built 3 years ago is still not visible in your navigation?

It feels like a petty cash grab that could easily be covered by miniscule increase in price of the car or by just reducing profit slightly.

Map updates under mib2 with VW and Skoda are free for life which means untill they stop releasing them. Seat has always tried to monetise that via Mapcare. Mapcare was never sold in the UK but for the SD card based mib2 use the workaround which was perfected by a member of the board in 2017 now spread worldwide. Mib2 high you get the navigation FeCs altered to life long, service offered by East Yorkshire Retrofit or you can do it yourself using Mib Tool, you might have to change the firmware to do that thou. Sits in the green menu and allows you to change FeCs yourself.

I agree map updates should be free or very low cost. Consumers Association many years back listed off the bad boys that charged for map upgrades. Seat didn't alter it's ways. Mib3 it's got worse than that with VAG now charging in West Europe for map updates across all the brands via connected services. East Europe (Russia) free via the import menu that is locked in the West. I guess a way round that will be found.

As far as keeping the map up-to-date, Here Maps which is used on mib3 and mib2 high you can register for a Here Map Creator account and add missing features. You have to keep at it to insure the edit is taken then that will be passed from the development database into the production database. Mib2 standard uses TomTom, again you can register for an account and mark up incorrect features. Here you don't draw it up, you leave it for TomTom team. Possibly why TomTom maps are sketchy in places. Google Maps has a similar feature and Waze. Validation is important in all of this. Google Maps has some terrible cartography on it constructed from aerial images rather than OS planning maps.

In the UK all validation should be done via the OS planning maps or site plans against against the aerial image. Google Maps don't, Waze ditto. When a housing estate is built the developers use developers roads where the building material is stored. They are not public roads. Often Google / Waze show these and not the finished estate (half an estate plus builders roads etc). They should never be digitised since they aren't public roads.

Google also has farm tracks digitised as public roads which leads to your car taking you up private farm tracks. Waze has roads on housing estates drawn up which arent even built. Situation becomes even more appalling when digital map providers analyse each other maps and mark up areas as mistakes. These fantasy roads then get digitised as fact across map providers. Only one that is really validated is the OS planning maps which is the gold standard since its a proper survey map carried out after the development.

Digital map providers also need to add road speeds. They obtain those from local authorities and regional government on paper / pdf. The junction lane positioning and one way systems via car. They also use GPS mobile phone probes as a way of tracking routes. This is where builders roads pass validation since validation isn't carried out correctly. The fantasy roads.

 

[Peyton]

Map updates under mib2 with VW and Skoda are free for life which means untill they stop releasing them. Seat has always tried to monetise that via Mapcare. Mapcare was never sold in the UK but for the SD card based mib2 use the workaround which was perfected by a member of the board in 2017 now spread worldwide. Mib2 high you get the navigation FeCs altered to life long, service offered by East Yorkshire Retrofit or you can do it yourself using Mib Tool, you might have to change the firmware to do that thou. Sits in the green menu and allows you to change FeCs yourself.

I agree map updates should be free or very low cost. Consumers Association many years back listed off the bad boys that charged for map upgrades. Seat didn't alter it's ways. Mib3 it's got worse than that with VAG now charging in West Europe for map updates across all the brands via connected services. East Europe (Russia) free via the import menu that is locked in the West. I guess a way round that will be found.

As far as keeping the map up-to-date, Here Maps which is used on mib3 and mib2 high you can register for a Here Map Creator account and add missing features. You have to keep at it to insure the edit is taken then that will be passed from the development database into the production database. Mib2 standard uses TomTom, again you can register for an announce and Mark up incorrect features. Here you don't draw leave it up to others. Google Maps has a similar feature and Waze. Validation is important in all of this. Google Maps has some terrible cartography on it constructed from aerial images rather than OS planning maps.

In the UK all validation should be done via the OS planning maps or site plans against against the aerial image. Google Maps don't, Waze ditto. When a housing estate is built the developers use developers roads where the building material is stored. They are not public roads. Often Google / Waze show these and not the finished estate (half an estate plus builders roads etc). They should never be digitised since they aren't public roads.

Google also has farm tracks digitised as public roads which leads to your car taking you up private farm tracks. Waze has roads on housing estates drawn up which arent even built. Situation becomes even more appalling when digital map providers analyse each other maps and mark up areas as mistakes. These fantasy roads then get digitised as fact across map providers. Only one that is really validated is the OS planning maps which is the gold standard since its a proper survey map carried out after the development.

Digital map providers also need to add road speeds. They obtain those from local authorities and regional government on paper / pdf. The junction lane positioning and one way systems via car. They also use GPS mobile phone probes as a way of tracking routes. This is where builders roads pass validation since validation isn't carried out correctly. The fantasy roads.

Thank you for the reply. I learned a lot .

One question, is OpenStreetMap better as a source? I always thought it provided very good maps, much more details than standard Google Maps but I am not aware if there are licensing issues or quality issues in some areas.

 

[Tell]

Thank you for the reply. I learned a lot .

One question, is OpenStreetMap better as a source? I always thought it provided very good maps, much more details than standard Google Maps but I am not aware if there are licensing issues or quality issues in some areas.

Openstreet is good for outdoor activities where car parks, campsites etc are digitised fully. Trails etc. Crowd sourced. Tends to be supported by academic departments with GIS Departments that enter the data although you can do that via an app called Potlach if you want to contribute.

Android apps are available which use it. Navigator being one. For road navigation it won't be so well specified as the commercial ones, but does work if the roads are not too complex. I have used Navigator with Openstreet in North Cyrus where the status of the country means it tends to be excluded from the commercial systems. Also used in in Oman and Jordan where commercial digital maps are patchy. Came back and added roads in all three cases. Jordan got stranded there with the Iceland volcano eruption so added quite a few new desert roads.

No license agreement to use. That's another source that commercial operations analyse.

Of the apps. Co-pilot uses Here Maps cartography. Sygic Tom Tom. Navigator free Openstreet or paid TomTom. Holiday apps to take with you, there are others. Some countries ban Google navigation so navigation is disabled, South Korea where you have to use the countries own. They keep you away from military installation and the like with roads left out. Suppose to stop a rapid incursion from the north.

 

[Formentor 21]

Yep. It's demonstrated in this ID3 video:

Many thanks both of you. It makes sense although I get some strange shapes that would appear to defy logic or assume an amazing ability to travel cross country!