EPC Light

[garethe]

Hello!

New to the forum, sorry it is asking for help straight away!

We've had our 2014 Seat Leon ST with a 1.2 TSI CYVB motor since early 2018, no issues at all. Yealy oil changes, with the most recent one done on Friday. Today we went on a long ish drive and on the way back i noticed the EPC light had come on, along with a stop/start error on the car panel. We pulled over and turned off engine, it struggled to start again and was quite rough when at low speeds - sounded like it wasn't running on all cylinders (i wondered if spark plugs needed doing, service manual says 4 years so had already looked into getting the puller to replace them ), though I guess it could be explained by what I found online....

We got home and I connected up a code reader. I don't think i've connected it to this car before, if I have, it didnt have these "messages" before. There was p0016, p2293, a random misfire error, and then one per cylinder for misfiring. I cleared the codes and ran to the end of the road and back, the EPC light came back on and the P0016 and P2293 codes were back.

I've not found anything here for these two codes, though I have spotted for some russian forum suggesting they replaced 04E906455AC which is the cam position sensor - makes sense....I thought i'd check here though incase anyone had any experience of these error codes happening together and the symptoms.

Thanks in advance

Gareth

 

[black_sheep]

The Ross-Tech wiki pages are always a good start point for things to consider:

P0016:

16400/P0016/000022 - Ross-Tech Wiki

wiki.ross-tech.com

P2293:

18725/P2293/008851 - Ross-Tech Wiki

wiki.ross-tech.com

Would appear rather coincidental that service was completed a few days ago - oil service only?

 

[garethe]

The Ross-Tech wiki pages are always a good start point for things to consider:

P0016:

16400/P0016/000022 - Ross-Tech Wiki

wiki.ross-tech.com

P2293:

18725/P2293/008851 - Ross-Tech Wiki

wiki.ross-tech.com

Would appear rather coincidental that service was completed a few days ago - oil service only?

Hello,

Yes I've seen those two - I wasnt sure if there was any significance of the two errors appearing at the same time, as both seen a little unrelated to each other (from that wiki page at least)....I guess apart from an issue with timing....? I'm at 60k km, and first inspection of timing belt isn't until 240km.....I could take a look though and see

I hope it's just a coincidence, I just changed the oil and filter, there's no fuel filter on this engine (apart from a built in one in the fuel delivery system, which I understand isn't replaceable on its own).

 

[black_sheep]

The correlation between the codes is the engine timing, which it looks like you’ve already established.

Which code reader are you using? There may be some other diagnostic tests that you can run to check the sensors for the high pressure fuel pump and/or camshaft position.

I thought that the 1.2 tsi was a timing chain, but I have no previous knowledge of this engine.

 

[garethe]

The correlation between the codes is the engine timing, which it looks like you’ve already established.

Which code reader are you using? There may be some other diagnostic tests that you can run to check the sensors for the high pressure fuel pump and/or camshaft position.

I thought that the 1.2 tsi was a timing chain, but I have no previous knowledge of this engine.

I've only got access to a Biltema (Swedish Halfords) code reader. I will check and see what other options there are apart from reading codes.

I haven't checked in the engine itself, the maintenance handbook suggests it's a belt, but that's all I'm going off.

Thanks!

 

[mty12345]

Hi mate, i'd definitely be leaning towards the side of it being a timing issue, just because you have the 2 codes at once.

I'm guessing that it's a timing chain rather than a belt, just because it has such a crazy long interval (240,000km) If so then chains can gradually wear over time, allowing the links to become loose, and that effectively makes the chain longer and eventually changes the timing.
I would check the tension of the timing chain and the timing itself asap.

As 'Black Sheep' said, if you can get access to a scanner that can do live data, then you should be able to check the camshaft position using that.

Edit: I've just looked up the design of that engine and it seems that the timing chain tensioner uses oil pressure to keep the chain tensioned!! I'm guessing that when you first started the engine after the oil change, the tensioner didn't have enough oil pressure for a couple of seconds, and this has allowed the chain to skip one or two teeth. The HP fuel pump is also driven off of the camshaft, so if the camshaft is a few degrees out, then then pump wouldn't be providing pressure at the right time. I would guess that it would also be most notable at low engine speeds when the speed of combustion is a lot slower, so that would make sense why starting and idle is most affected. Very very poor design of the tensioner imo.

 

[garethe]

Hello again,

I managed to get live data from the test instrument, though there doesnt seem to be camshaft position, I'm not sure I can get much useful from fuel either apart from "Spark Advance" which jumps around a bit.

I'll check under the cover - will have to see if I manage today or not, though according to this it still sounds like a belt....where did you see / how did you see it was tensioned via oil pressure?

I think my engine is from this link https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Pn1OmWCVjbHiPrSXq7m0fMt6Jz9CTv1z/view - my engine is CYVB

With regard to the fault caused by oil change though, I did the oil change the same way I have with all cars, leaving some time after filling and checking level before turning over. We also drove around 150km over a couple of days (20km or so on Saturday, 130 before the issue showed up yesterday).

I'm not trying to argue, I'm just trying to understand

Thanks

 

[mty12345]

Hello again,

I managed to get live data from the test instrument, though there doesnt seem to be camshaft position, I'm not sure I can get much useful from fuel either apart from "Spark Advance" which jumps around a bit.

I'll check under the cover - will have to see if I manage today or not, though according to this it still sounds like a belt....where did you see / how did you see it was tensioned via oil pressure?

I think my engine is from this link https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Pn1OmWCVjbHiPrSXq7m0fMt6Jz9CTv1z/view - my engine is CYVB

View attachment 31140

With regard to the fault caused by oil change though, I did the oil change the same way I have with all cars, leaving some time after filling and checking level before turning over. We also drove around 150km over a couple of days (20km or so on Saturday, 130 before the issue showed up yesterday).

I'm not trying to argue, I'm just trying to understand

Thanks

It said that earlier ones had the chain with oil pressure tensioners, and later ones went to a belt with a standard tensioner. Maybe your's is a later one with the belt then, but i just couldn't ever see a belt having a interval of 240,000 km. Most rubber belts need doing every 5 years, as they start to perish. Let us know how you get on.

 

[garethe]

So, an update. I tried to get the inspection cover off tonight, however some coolant pipes ( i believe that's what they are) over the top of the engine meant I couldn't get the cover free. I could see some of the belt from the top, and it is definitely a rubber belt. The part I could see seemed fine and tight, though I couldn't obviously rotate so couldn't inspect the whole belt.

I have spent some time researching further, as well as my father in law asking at the local vw garage.

VW garage said that it's hard to say without car being there, however they would guess p2293 is a red herring and probably caused by p0016. P0016 is unlikely to be a real issue, but most likely a faulty sensor somewhere. It would likely cause roughness but PROBABLY not cause any damage by driving it. No guarantees it won't just stop and get stranded somewhere...so im not going to drive anywhere till it's sorted.


I took out the vvt part mentioned in the Russian forum, and it appears to be slightly damaged. The mesh on the side with two openings is damaged. I've ordered a new one but am also considering ordering a new can position sensor. I can order the sensor and return it if I don't use it.

If I get chance, I'm going to have another go with the odb ii tool and see what I can find. Perhaps I should consider getting something a little more capable to make things easier in future......

 

[SuperV8]

Just to be clear 04E906455AC is a solenoid not a sensor. This controls the flow of oil through the variable timing camshaft phaser, but yes if it was faulty it would effect your cam timing.

 

[garethe]

Just to be clear 04E906455AC is a solenoid not a sensor. This controls the flow of oil through the variable timing camshaft phaser, but yes if it was faulty it would effect your cam timing.

Ah Yes. Id been looking at all sorts of things when I wrote those replies, just got the words muddled.

No parts shown up yet, so no updates yet

 

[garethe]

The vvt solenoid finally showed up today, fitted it and all seems fine. Have checked for any codes and nothing at all, taken it on a short test drive and sounds a lot better. Am going to take it on a longer test drive now, but I'm hoping that that was the solution!

 

[martin j.]

Hope you’re sorted mate, fingers crossed.

 

[garethe]

Have done a few longer drives now and no issues at all. Hopefully this thread will help someone else in the future

 

[Skeeuk]

Hi did you get this sorted? My EPC light comes on intermittent along with engine light. Goes into limp mode

I've left it at garage he says no code showing. Car works fine engine very smooth etc just what can it be. This is what my Bluetooth scanner returned.

Car Scanner ELM OBD2
DTC report
Selected brand: Seat
VIN: VSSZZZ6JZFR011283

============1==============
P11D6
Raw code: 11D6
ECU: Engine control unit
Status: Confirmed

 

[garethe]

Yea as I mentioned in thread it was the variable valve timing solenoid. Its odd there aren't any codes.....I would have thought if it went into limp mode it would have had some codes there

 

[Skeeuk]

Yea as I mentioned in thread it was the variable valve timing solenoid. Its odd there aren't any codes.....I would have thought if it went into limp mode it would have had some codes there

Thanks. Il look into it ASAP the issue is garage just called that no codes showing up because its intermittent it's just by luck if it breaks down when he's gonna drive it later.

But Il take your advice on board and get this part ASAP

Thank you

 

[cupra14]

Hi did you get this sorted? My EPC light comes on intermittent along with engine light. Goes into limp mode

I've left it at garage he says no code showing. Car works fine engine very smooth etc just what can it be. This is what my Bluetooth scanner returned.

Car Scanner ELM OBD2
DTC report
Selected brand: Seat
VIN: VSSZZZ6JZFR011283

============1==============
P11D6
Raw code: 11D6
ECU: Engine control unit
Status: Confirmed

So you got P11D6 - just tell the garage that.

Maybe your tool cleared it.

 

[mty12345]

P11D6 = Camshaft position (CMP) actuator, exhaust B, cylinder 2 - range/performance problem ---------- Wiring, CMP actuator

 

[Skeeuk]

P11D6 = Camshaft position (CMP) actuator, exhaust B, cylinder 2 - range/performance problem ---------- Wiring, CMP actuator

Yes it points to the VVT camshaft Solenoid sensor thingy but he said he checked the OBD history and its faulty coils! Which he will fit this morning. Il report back how it goes