You need a decent boost control system now. Ditch the N75.
Any timing able to be added with the SEM?
Coming along nicely now.
Any timing able to be added with the SEM?
Coming along nicely now.
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Audi S3 GT3582R stroker Build (previously GT3071r)
- Thread starter tufftybloke
- Start date
You need a decent boost control system now. Ditch the N75.
Any timing able to be added with the SEM?
Coming along nicely now.
Humm... got a new file to try at the weekend... will see if thats made things any better... already plenty of timing in there, got WMI to go too... just over 20deg advance on full chat IIRC...
Maybe a bit more to go but she was getting hot
Have looked at the Turbosmart E-Boost Street 40psi jobber as it suggests it maintains (or tries at least) the boost at higher rpm where mine is dropping off... I reckon if I can get it to hold more boost (which I think it should) then that will lift the power a bit but I reckon that the hotside of my turbo is more than likely the last issue preventing much more power now...
The turbo was originally a compact version of the GT3071r using GT2871r housings and a 56.5mm turbine. Hotside is a T25 0.64ar internal gate... when I had the turbo rebuilt I had the CHRA replaced with a proper 60mm turbined CHRA and had the replacement housing machined to suit... guessing I have hit the flow potential of it now really so I am considering going external gate as my mani has provision for it and changing the hotside from this..
..to this...
...and is described as...
"Turbine housing, we call it "T25 Plus", T25 inlet flanged, T31-V-Band outlet, Externally wastegated, flows like full T3. Available for full size GT3071R/GT3076R turbine wheel. Allows full T3 flow but on T25 flanged manifold."
After that I have essentially done as much as I can realistically do to extract the best from my current setup...
Yes I could go 2ltr (and that is a consideration when I get around to a bottom end rebuild) or top mount and tubular mani but the log mani seems to have better spool and the car drives really nicely on it so kinda like to keep what I have tbh... plus it still looks mostly factory under the bonnet which is what I was after...
That won't happen for a while though... need to get what I have running right first
<tuffty/>
As is typical at this time of year, I have hit a small snag with my beloved car....
Investigated an exhaust blow on the old girl at the weekend thinking the v-band on the downpipe had come loose (as this has happened before) only to discover the turbo itself rocking on the manifold...! brilliant.....
Managed to get a socket on one nut (the only one visible and accessible without head removal) and it turned a bit but didn't feel nice... guessing the little buggers have stretched and/or loosened a bit...
I wasn't planning on doing much more than getting the mapping sorted this side of christmas but its a head off job realistically to sort this problem so I may as well just get it all done right...
This means going external gate and changing the hotside etc earlier than planned... hotside was ordered and turned up this week...
Had a look at the hotside today to see whats what etc...
seems the core centreline (measured from the flange) is a little higher... this means the turbo will sit lower being underslung and its room I haven't got to play with... around 6mm possibly but will check properly tomorrow... boooo!
Just to remind you of the tightness...
All very tight... however I think I can get it all to fit (not that I have much choice tbh) with a bit of jiggery pokery and potentially a bit of strategic housing clocking etc
Looks the biz and certainly looks like it will flow much better than the current hotside... its supposed to be T25 fitment but the throat looks almost the same size as a T3!! here it is next to a T25 from a GT28...
T25...
T25+
...and in comparison to Bill's GT35 which is T3...
All good then... if all goes well then this in theory should be good for low 400's hp wise...
Obviously with the hotside being a tad larger there will be a few challenges with fitting... I did measure up against the GT28 hotside and alignment seems to be affected both in height and looks like it with push the compressor over more too which could be problematic
But.... I had a quick look at an S3 in the workshop at the moment thats having essentially the turbo I started off with and the housing is differnt again... its the same style as the GT28 but appears larger... this could well mean that the location differences between the hotside I have and the new one may not be as bad as we thought but I am not going to know until I get it all apart...
Anyhoo... still collecting bits ready to crack on with the work which may not happen for a couple of weeks as yet due to Bill's workload...
<tuffty/>
Investigated an exhaust blow on the old girl at the weekend thinking the v-band on the downpipe had come loose (as this has happened before) only to discover the turbo itself rocking on the manifold...! brilliant.....
Managed to get a socket on one nut (the only one visible and accessible without head removal) and it turned a bit but didn't feel nice... guessing the little buggers have stretched and/or loosened a bit...
I wasn't planning on doing much more than getting the mapping sorted this side of christmas but its a head off job realistically to sort this problem so I may as well just get it all done right...
This means going external gate and changing the hotside etc earlier than planned... hotside was ordered and turned up this week...
Had a look at the hotside today to see whats what etc...
seems the core centreline (measured from the flange) is a little higher... this means the turbo will sit lower being underslung and its room I haven't got to play with... around 6mm possibly but will check properly tomorrow... boooo!
Just to remind you of the tightness...
All very tight... however I think I can get it all to fit (not that I have much choice tbh) with a bit of jiggery pokery and potentially a bit of strategic housing clocking etc
Looks the biz and certainly looks like it will flow much better than the current hotside... its supposed to be T25 fitment but the throat looks almost the same size as a T3!! here it is next to a T25 from a GT28...
T25...
T25+
...and in comparison to Bill's GT35 which is T3...
All good then... if all goes well then this in theory should be good for low 400's hp wise...
Obviously with the hotside being a tad larger there will be a few challenges with fitting... I did measure up against the GT28 hotside and alignment seems to be affected both in height and looks like it with push the compressor over more too which could be problematic
But.... I had a quick look at an S3 in the workshop at the moment thats having essentially the turbo I started off with and the housing is differnt again... its the same style as the GT28 but appears larger... this could well mean that the location differences between the hotside I have and the new one may not be as bad as we thought but I am not going to know until I get it all apart...
Anyhoo... still collecting bits ready to crack on with the work which may not happen for a couple of weeks as yet due to Bill's workload...
<tuffty/>
przemekPL
Guest
me curious about this option. do not need to modify the collector. and I might put gtx3076
anyone tested?
me curious about this option. do not need to modify the collector. and I might put gtx3076
anyone tested?
I did consider this housing purely based on the potential for it to be a straight swap with mine and just doing the work needed to plumb in the Tial...
However... After working on a couple of cars using this type of housing (including my own) I am not convinced they flow enough to warrant using an external gate...
Bill is mapping an S3 at the moment that has a turbo with my old spec and tbh its going surprisingly well... although it does suffer from horrendous boost creep after 6k... I guess the tial version you have there would go some way to fix that but then so would porting the internal wastegate...
After all the cars I have worked on including my own in the past I can't see the point in using a housing like this one unless you really have too...
My rods are on order now so hopefully be working on mine next month so will see what difference this T25 plus housing will make...
<tuffty/>
LOL... no mate... I have had IE's in since day one ;P
I am going rifle drilled this time around and haven't got time to wait around getting mine done so will fit some Brutes and sell off the IE's...
<tuffty/>
Ha Ha, i see, i was thinking to myself you must have balls of steel.
Whats with the rifle drilled rods are they stronger or lighter.
pressure lube to small ends so not going to develop small end rattle like can sometimes occur on non rifle drilled rods
Cool, do you see the small end rattle often or is it limited to a few unfortunate cases.
Small update.... the car has been off the road now for a month or so as the blowing was getting worse so rather than have the turbo fall on the floor I have left it until I have managed to collect all the parts I need to sort fitting the new hotside/ext gate etc...
Good news... I start next weekend
Managed to blag a ramp at Bills for enough time to get the head off and there is space for my car to stay there over Christmas while we sort out fitting the newly configured turbo and doing the necessary fabrication work...
I am feeling pretty excited about this latest evolution of my build... I had thought I was having issues with the build as I didn't seem to be getting any closer to 400hp as I had hoped but recently running up a couple of other S3's with the same spec turbo as my original one (GT30r) and then making around 375hp made me realise that in fact mine hasn't been too far away from what appears to be the limit or as close to the limit for this turbo configuration...
Seeing as my current turbo CHRA is now a full on GT3071r with the larger turbine and I am going external gate I am hoping this will give me the boost control and flow capability to get me too and a bit beyond 400hp...
I am still using the underslung configuration with the cast log manifold but its a big ol' beast and should flow pretty well and has a spot (once machined) ready for the Tial wastegate...
This same turbo made 447hp in an Ibiza we built recently but that did have 83mm pistons, a SEM inlet and tubular exhaust manifold.
I doubt I will see that level of power as the log mani won't be as efficient as a tubular one but I do plan an update to my charge system sometime in the new year prompted by Andrew@ald's inlet manifold project...
(http://www.audi-sport.net/vb/a3-s3-forum-8l-chassis/132953-my-inlet-manifold-project.html)
In fact I just bought this from ebay for £5.60
Plan is to replace the top charge pipe with 63mm alloy (less the dent thats in the OEM one) and replace the passenger side charge pipe work from 60mm to 63mm (mainly due to the different angle the TB will be on the fabricated inlet manifold so will need to do something with it anyway)...
Will look to get the charge pipe, inlet and cam cover powder coated the same colour once I have cleaned and smoothed the welds...
Will of course provide updates with pics etc as I get on...
<tuffty/>
Good news... I start next weekend
Managed to blag a ramp at Bills for enough time to get the head off and there is space for my car to stay there over Christmas while we sort out fitting the newly configured turbo and doing the necessary fabrication work...
I am feeling pretty excited about this latest evolution of my build... I had thought I was having issues with the build as I didn't seem to be getting any closer to 400hp as I had hoped but recently running up a couple of other S3's with the same spec turbo as my original one (GT30r) and then making around 375hp made me realise that in fact mine hasn't been too far away from what appears to be the limit or as close to the limit for this turbo configuration...
Seeing as my current turbo CHRA is now a full on GT3071r with the larger turbine and I am going external gate I am hoping this will give me the boost control and flow capability to get me too and a bit beyond 400hp...
I am still using the underslung configuration with the cast log manifold but its a big ol' beast and should flow pretty well and has a spot (once machined) ready for the Tial wastegate...
This same turbo made 447hp in an Ibiza we built recently but that did have 83mm pistons, a SEM inlet and tubular exhaust manifold.
I doubt I will see that level of power as the log mani won't be as efficient as a tubular one but I do plan an update to my charge system sometime in the new year prompted by Andrew@ald's inlet manifold project...
(http://www.audi-sport.net/vb/a3-s3-forum-8l-chassis/132953-my-inlet-manifold-project.html)
In fact I just bought this from ebay for £5.60
Plan is to replace the top charge pipe with 63mm alloy (less the dent thats in the OEM one) and replace the passenger side charge pipe work from 60mm to 63mm (mainly due to the different angle the TB will be on the fabricated inlet manifold so will need to do something with it anyway)...
Will look to get the charge pipe, inlet and cam cover powder coated the same colour once I have cleaned and smoothed the welds...
Will of course provide updates with pics etc as I get on...
<tuffty/>
Well... made a start today...
First thing I noticed while draining the fluids was that the rear earth strap was broken... typically as its been a bit of a topic at Bills recently with a couple of cars coming in like it...
Normally this leads to the haldex not working but mine is as far as I am aware but will be sorting this out anyway... more info here about this problem.. http://www.audi-sport.net/vb/a3-s3-...working-no-communication-etc-look-inside.html
So here we are again, head off for the <insert random number here>th time... sumps off for reasons I will explain later..
Found why the exhaust was blowing...
Found another little gem while removing the hotside for the swap... its cracked... again!!!
Really obvious this hotside does not like running much boost at all (not that I was tbh)... test fitted the new hotside...
Sadly it is a little taller so will bugger up my already tight clearance on the bevel box and has also sat the turbo closer to the engine as its now close in places it wasn't before
Bit of work to do then... will be getting the 6 speed quattro box Bill has in his garage over to mock up the fitment and see what can be done... bit of machining here and there should sort it out
Be worth it... quite a difference in size between the T25 and the new (essentially a T3) housing
Popped the pistons out to see if I could rule out the small ends as the rattle I have been getting... first issue... broken piston ring... brilliant!!!
Second issue... worn gudgeon pins
That'll be my rattle then... meanwhile back in the Badger Cave...
Bill is a star... has all sorts of goodies lying about including some Ibiza pistons (20mm) with as new condition pins... so, four new set of rings, a good honing and new pins... hopefully that should sort that lot out...
All in all a bit of a crap day... nothing but problems presenting themselves... however there are no problems only solutions so will take that into tomorrow and sort the turbo fitment out and clean up the pistons ready for the new rings...
Hopefully have a better day tomorrow
<tuffty/>
First thing I noticed while draining the fluids was that the rear earth strap was broken... typically as its been a bit of a topic at Bills recently with a couple of cars coming in like it...
Normally this leads to the haldex not working but mine is as far as I am aware but will be sorting this out anyway... more info here about this problem.. http://www.audi-sport.net/vb/a3-s3-...working-no-communication-etc-look-inside.html
So here we are again, head off for the <insert random number here>th time... sumps off for reasons I will explain later..
Found why the exhaust was blowing...
Found another little gem while removing the hotside for the swap... its cracked... again!!!
Really obvious this hotside does not like running much boost at all (not that I was tbh)... test fitted the new hotside...
Sadly it is a little taller so will bugger up my already tight clearance on the bevel box and has also sat the turbo closer to the engine as its now close in places it wasn't before
Bit of work to do then... will be getting the 6 speed quattro box Bill has in his garage over to mock up the fitment and see what can be done... bit of machining here and there should sort it out
Be worth it... quite a difference in size between the T25 and the new (essentially a T3) housing
Popped the pistons out to see if I could rule out the small ends as the rattle I have been getting... first issue... broken piston ring... brilliant!!!
Second issue... worn gudgeon pins
That'll be my rattle then... meanwhile back in the Badger Cave...
Bill is a star... has all sorts of goodies lying about including some Ibiza pistons (20mm) with as new condition pins... so, four new set of rings, a good honing and new pins... hopefully that should sort that lot out...
All in all a bit of a crap day... nothing but problems presenting themselves... however there are no problems only solutions so will take that into tomorrow and sort the turbo fitment out and clean up the pistons ready for the new rings...
Hopefully have a better day tomorrow
<tuffty/>
Those pins look familiar, and the fact i don't think you can even buy them separately led me to fork out for some new pistons when i done my rods originally.
Hope the build goes better than todays work.
Hope the build goes better than todays work.
Yeah, fingers crossed... good job Bill hoards bits of old VAGs lol...
The design on the pins is a tad different which is a concern but will find out no doubt later when I reassemble them...
Alternative of course is to remove the block and get it bored for a set of 82.5mm JE's which I can't stretch for at this time...
Onwards and upwards
<tuffty/>
You hear it quite badly on idle? sounds like the same thing mate sadly...
awesome car!
Thanks mate...
<tuffty/>
Better day today...
Started a little badly of course... my plan to use the pins from the other pistons failed at the first hurdle..
So sod it... I cleaned up the Ibiza pistons...
...fitted them on the rods....
...and honed the bores...
...there are still a couple of deeper scratches on the top of cyl 1 but short of a rebore (which I can't afford right now) it will have to do..
Rings will be ordered in the morning and will be gapping them up and fitting the pistons back in...
Also fitted my manifold and turbo to the build engine... the new hotside has moved the turbo closer to the block, hangs a little lower than before and has moved the compressor over to flywheel side a bit... doesn't sound or look much but with the tight clearances I already have being underslung it may as well be a mile...
Anyway, did some measurements and looks like the turbo needs to lift by 4/5mm so the plan is to machine the manifold as there is quite a bit of meat there and some other stuff needs a bit of clearancing too... not taken pics yet as it was getting late and we knocked it on the head early...
While under the car I undid the nut for the rear diff earth strap which thankfully didn't shear off and the bolt came off the diff too so looking up... will be making a new strap out of some 25mm2 battery cable... nice and thick so should last a bit better and provide a decent earth..
Will get some pics tomorrow of the turbo setup as I need to fit it all to a bare head and sit it on the engine to see what hits what as the bevel box Bill had to use on the build engine is a different/earlier version to mine and the case is different so won't help gauging clearances
Got a couple more days off to work on the car... not going to be finished before Christmas as there will be some fabrication work to do... water pipes don't fit and will need tweaking plus the manifold needs machining and welding for the external gate fittings...
<tuffty/>
Started a little badly of course... my plan to use the pins from the other pistons failed at the first hurdle..
So sod it... I cleaned up the Ibiza pistons...
...fitted them on the rods....
...and honed the bores...
...there are still a couple of deeper scratches on the top of cyl 1 but short of a rebore (which I can't afford right now) it will have to do..
Rings will be ordered in the morning and will be gapping them up and fitting the pistons back in...
Also fitted my manifold and turbo to the build engine... the new hotside has moved the turbo closer to the block, hangs a little lower than before and has moved the compressor over to flywheel side a bit... doesn't sound or look much but with the tight clearances I already have being underslung it may as well be a mile...
Anyway, did some measurements and looks like the turbo needs to lift by 4/5mm so the plan is to machine the manifold as there is quite a bit of meat there and some other stuff needs a bit of clearancing too... not taken pics yet as it was getting late and we knocked it on the head early...
While under the car I undid the nut for the rear diff earth strap which thankfully didn't shear off and the bolt came off the diff too so looking up... will be making a new strap out of some 25mm2 battery cable... nice and thick so should last a bit better and provide a decent earth..
Will get some pics tomorrow of the turbo setup as I need to fit it all to a bare head and sit it on the engine to see what hits what as the bevel box Bill had to use on the build engine is a different/earlier version to mine and the case is different so won't help gauging clearances
Got a couple more days off to work on the car... not going to be finished before Christmas as there will be some fabrication work to do... water pipes don't fit and will need tweaking plus the manifold needs machining and welding for the external gate fittings...
<tuffty/>
Nice christmas update Tuffty. What did you use to deglaze the bores as it looks quite a considerate hone compared to some horror stories you sometime see. Is it a lazer tripple prong affair using a medium stone maybe.
Those pistons look brand new they've cleaned up well. Are you certain you can't buy the pins direct from Audi.
Those pistons look brand new they've cleaned up well. Are you certain you can't buy the pins direct from Audi.
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