Audi S3 GT3582R stroker Build (previously GT3071r)

[tarzan]

hey paul my mate have an s3 and want to uppgrade his engine mounts. he is around the 300 mark. you know some good engine mounts??

 

[tufftybloke]

hey paul my mate have an s3 and want to uppgrade his engine mounts. he is around the 300 mark. you know some good engine mounts??

I used ones from THS Performance... they are ok but I am going to change them to to the Vibratecnics ones Bill normally uses...

<tuffty/>

 

[tufftybloke]

Had some time to myself this afternoon as I wasn't at the workshop. I have been having a few issues with boost control ever since my latest map had the boost upped from 1.4bar to 1.7bar.... Boost has been dropping off randomly or wavering between 1.4 and 1.6bar rather than holding as it should... I initially put this down to the actuator and was going to try a bit more preload as this helped the last time I had a similar issue...

I have tried an MBC (manual boost controller) before but without much success... I couldn't be bothered to play with it previously but thought I would give it another go...


Using a Forge UNOS MBC I bypassed the N75 completely (leaving it electrically connected and blocked the pipe going to the TIP) and gave it a try.

It was one that Bill had used on the Polo build while mapping so should be set about right... however, when I tried it I was still getting varying boost so I fitted the stiffer spring that comes with the UNOS, wound it back to its softest setting and tried again... steady 1.4bar this time... wound it up 20 clicks... over 2bar!! eeep!!... wound it back 5 clicks and it settled nicely at 1.8 (ish) bar....

Car was pulling nicely and it held boost pretty much up to the redline...sweet!!!

Think I will fit that in properly now as its just lazing about the engine bay at this moment (I have cable tied it in now)

Max airflow I got from that run was 282g/s... this is lower than I have been getting in the past as my MAF is a little tired... I have previously been only getting in and around the 270 mark where I have logged over 290 before... I have previously tried a MAF Bill had on the shelf and my airflow was back up at 292g/s so a new MAF and pre-cat lambda are on the shopping list for the end of the month.

The 282g/s was encouraging though as the MBC appears to be working nicely and maintaining boost keeping the airflow up. This was when I decided to have a go at de-meshing the MAF...

De-meshing the MAF has been discussed before and a friend of mine has recently done his... I am little sceptical but thought 'what the actual hell!!!'

Here we have an S3 MAF... grille thingy at the front (airbox side)

..and TIP side...

TIP side grille was an easy job to remove..

The airbox side less so... this is where the 'mesh' is. The plastic grille is retained in the MAF housing so I ended up having to push from the inside of the MAF while unclipping the retainers to allow the grille and mesh to pop out... I damaged the mesh doing this, good job its not going back in

And there you have it, one de-meshed MAF...

Fitted it back on the car and did a couple more runs.... got an airflow of 291g/s!!! same setting on the MBC, just a de-meshed MAF...

Not a bad increase for a hours messing about... 270 to 290 g/s

There is some discussion on another thread about the validity of this increase and the MAF ability to now accurately measure the airflow now that it can no longer be stabilised by the mesh screen... I am on the fence with this, I am not convinced it would over read the air but under read if anything at all. I will be logging block 001 amongst others to keep an eye on real time ECU correction to fuelling and keeping an eye on long term fuel trims to see if fuel is being removed or added in any great quantities that would back up a misreading MAF.

Hoping to get the new MAF, lambda and finally my EGT probe sorted next weekend if I and of course Bill can find the time.

Car is driving great at the moment, feels stronger than it has done in a long while... I is a happy chappy

<tuffty/>

 

[DK_GTI_RACER]

Fitted it back on the car and did a couple more runs.... got an airflow of 291g/s!!! same setting on the MBC, just a de-meshed MAF...

Not a bad increase for a hours messing about... 270 to 290 g/s

There is some discussion on another thread about the validity of this increase and the MAF ability to now accurately measure the airflow now that it can no longer be stabilised by the mesh screen... I am on the fence with this, I am not convinced it would over read the air but under read if anything at all. I will be logging block 001 amongst others to keep an eye on real time ECU correction to fuelling and keeping an eye on long term fuel trims to see if fuel is being removed or added in any great quantities that would back up a misreading MAF.

Hoping to get the new MAF, lambda and finally my EGT probe sorted next weekend if I and of course Bill can find the time.

Car is driving great at the moment, feels stronger than it has done in a long while... I is a happy chappy

<tuffty/>

You will end up destroying your maf with this, its running overtime on adjustment, the mesh is their to make the airflow straight, if you run demesh the air around the MAF will be a vortex, this will throw off readings completly, make it unreliable and not mention overstress and kill your maff - get your mess back inside...g/s dont really mean anything, it could be indications in case maf is reading 100% accourate, if not - its worth nothing, the only real way to test is on a dyno - you have to in to conideration that the filter alone is more off an obstruction then the mesh, so why bother demesh anything and get fals readings? The germans did it ok with the design but APR made it even better in their MAF housings, but still the oems are good enough, dont change it....i even tried dynoing my car without filter and just the mafhorn and lost power over with filter, about 1hp only, but still.......another thing to take in to consideration is that HGP turbo of germany only tunes with stock AIR box and STOCK airfilter , and yet has no problems pulling out 600hp on turbosetups...

 

[Indy]

.another thing to take in to consideration is that HGP turbo of germany only tunes with stock AIR box and STOCK airfilter , and yet has no problems pulling out 600hp on turbosetups...

I was at the essen motorshow in december 2009 and i saw some VW MK 5 setups on the 2.0T fsi, they used the standard air box but with high performance panel filters and were producing 350+Hp.
This makes me wonder if Induction kits really make any difference.

 

[DK_GTI_RACER]

I was at the essen motorshow in december 2009 and i saw some VW MK 5 setups on the 2.0T fsi, they used the standard air box but with high performance panel filters and were producing 350+Hp.
This makes me wonder if Induction kits really make any difference.

If you watch my thread you can see im pushing on a "tiny" GT2860rs almost 400bhp, this is on stock airbox, K&N panel filter...no issues with air intake on my car...no drills in aibox, but just modified to be a R32 airbox system.

 

[ibizacupra]

you can make those power levels, but it does'nt mean you cant get more from an open cone.

its proves nothing..
compare one, swap over and compare again, same car then you will know

 

[h7 cya]

So many mixed opinions on this de-screened maf? is it worth the extra gains or just hassle.

 

[DK_GTI_RACER]

you can make those power levels, but it does'nt mean you cant get more from an open cone.

its proves nothing..
compare one, swap over and compare again, same car then you will know

Bill i compared to not running a filter at all or airbox for that matter, in wich case i lost 1hp...to me that proves it does not work better - still the demesh is really bad idea, the flow is be sucked in like a vortex, giving false readings, killing the maf and make the car run rich....

 

[ibizacupra]

What will be causing this vortex you describe on the intake path of a std airbox which has intergral bell mouth

Open MAF could indeed flow less than an airbos which runs radius bell mouth.. think of aero jet engines intake.. and they pick up 30+% flow efficiency from their intake bells..

you are right about the purpose of the screen to help laminar flow across the sensor element, however, down stream mesh serve no purpose at all.. and upstream with 5-8 diameters worth of pipe will also yield smooth flow across the sensor with or without the screen/mesh. mesh would look to just be a parge pore particulate filter, and the screen is what guides flow into laminar across the sensor.

as for over stressing a sensor, I see no causation for this at all. it remains a temperature device as before reacting to incoming airflow and its cooling affect.

very high airflow can and will damage the sensors hybrid circuit, when it cannot normalise its temperature relative to the internal reference.. and then the hybrid fails and dead maf syndrome.. nothing to do with quality of air passing, more quantity.

tuttys on the edge and slightly beyond on his turbo on the 80mm maf, and is more likely to fail for the reasons I have just described above. RS4 larger maf next and slow the airflow across the sensor so the hybrid is within its 0-5v output range. tufftys actual output when I checked months ago was 4.98v which was above map scale for this sensor back then.

 

[DK_GTI_RACER]

What will be causing this vortex you describe on the intake path of a std airbox which has intergral bell mouth

Open MAF could indeed flow less than an airbos which runs radius bell mouth.. think of aero jet engines intake.. and they pick up 30+% flow efficiency from their intake bells..

you are right about the purpose of the screen to help laminar flow across the sensor element, however, down stream mesh serve no purpose at all.. and upstream with 5-8 diameters worth of pipe will also yield smooth flow across the sensor with or without the screen/mesh. mesh would look to just be a parge pore particulate filter, and the screen is what guides flow into laminar across the sensor.

as for over stressing a sensor, I see no causation for this at all. it remains a temperature device as before reacting to incoming airflow and its cooling affect.

very high airflow can and will damage the sensors hybrid circuit, when it cannot normalise its temperature relative to the internal reference.. and then the hybrid fails and dead maf syndrome.. nothing to do with quality of air passing, more quantity.

tuttys on the edge and slightly beyond on his turbo on the 80mm maf, and is more likely to fail for the reasons I have just described above. RS4 larger maf next and slow the airflow across the sensor so the hybrid is within its 0-5v output range. tufftys actual output when I checked months ago was 4.98v which was above map scale for this sensor back then.

Bill what you say makes totally sense - and the downstream mesh is definately not needed, forgot about that because APR dont run one in their maf housing, anyways i didnt dyno with out the MAF horn, making the increased air velocity and why i think its worthy to compare with and without filter....the MAF horn is same as the bell effect if you ask me...here is pic of the MAF horn and kit to show what i mean...

But i can also mention af few who has upgraded to GT3076r on this kit utilizing same MAF horn, maf housing and airbox without killing the MAF sensor wich could be the colder air from airbox as to open filter.....So far i have had my MAF on for 2 years now without a failure, not to mention when we wired the 5v wire on the MAf from ecu box to support the newer DBW maf´s it has made my car impossible of driving without maf plugged in and working, so i know exactly when it fails

 

[Willie]

The new style MAF's (MK2 LC) don't have any screening.
I haven't looked closely at the design but the MAF is very different between the MK1 and MK2 Leons

 

[Robbie C]

I keep on seeing discussions around this. Taking the bell mouth out of the picture, do you share the opinion that it wouldn't be wise to do this on an induction setup using a cone filter?

Oh - and cheers for the joyride last night Paul, muchos impressed

 

[PhilW]

Where did you get the heat wrap from for the downpipe?

 

[ibizacupra]

The new style MAF's (MK2 LC) don't have any screening.
I haven't looked closely at the design but the MAF is very different between the MK1 and MK2 Leons

I think I have read too tho, that mk2's are sensitive to induction kits also, which may be by the turbulant flow..

*maybe*

 

[tufftybloke]

...Oh - and cheers for the joyride last night Paul, muchos impressed

You're welcome Rob.... its nice to get someone else's opinion as I think I have got used to the power now lol

<tuffty/>

 

[tufftybloke]

Where did you get the heat wrap from for the downpipe?

http://www.exhaustwrapshop.com/

I used the Thermo Tech stuff, 2" x 50' in graphite black... I didn't use the whole roll though as the 2" stuff covers well so you could get a couple of the 15' packs I guess to save some cash

<tuffty/>

 

[tiresmokindad]

Good job! Nice building of your Audi S3 GT3071R. I want to ask its Air filters? How and what did you do about it?

 

[tufftybloke]

Good job! Nice building of your Audi S3 GT3071R. I want to ask its Air filters? How and what did you do about it?

Thanks... Using the std airbox, Green Cotton filter and a 4" cold air feed... details here..
http://www.seatcupra.net/forums/showthread.php?t=234021&page=9#174

<tuffty/>

 

[tufftybloke]

Productive weekend...

Managed to find some time to finish stripping the large port head ready for a skim and new valve guides...

The OEM tool a bit of a 'tool' to use, Bill has an idea for a rig that will hold the head still and make it easier to use but I couldn't be bothered to wait

...inlets are tight, have to be careful not to catch either the follower bore or the cam bearing...

20 bloody valves later!!!

Pulled out the stem seals next, the rubber on these were hard as nails...

All done and ready for cleaning... I will get the machine shop to clean the chambers..

Into the parts washer and looking nice and clean now...

Thats it for now, will give the machine shop a bell this week to see when they can sort the work out for me...

<tuffty/>