HELP! Rear wheel bearing stuck on

[everson38]

Hey guys,

So was doing my sister's passwnger side rear wheel bearing and as per usual it's never simple for me, the whole thing for stuck and then it got of in bits and now the inner part is stuck on?

Any ideas on how to remove?

It's a 1.2 Seat Ibiza TSI 62 plate

Thanks as always

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[RUM4MO]

Maybe use a blow lamp on the seized bearing race with a large wet towel on the spindle so that there is a temperature difference. After that if that does nothing, very carefully cut through that bearing race with an angle grinder making sure that you don't damage the spindle.
If you totally mess the spindle up grab another rear hub from a scrappy and hopefully its bearing will come off and allow you to fit the new hub including bearing onto it.
Halfords also sell a version of freezer spray marketed by WD40.

Edit:- another 15 minute job gone wrong!

 

[everson38]

Maybe use a blow lamp on the seized bearing race with a large wet towel on the spindle so that there is a temperature difference. After that if that does nothing, very carefully cut through that bearing race with an angle grinder making sure that you don't damage the spindle.
If you totally mess the spindle up grab another rear hub from a scrappy and hopefully its bearing will come off and allow you to fit the new hub including bearing onto it.
Halfords also sell a version of freezer spray marketed by WD40.

Edit:- another 15 minute job gone wrong!

Hey Rum,

Long time no speak, hope you been well.

Your telling me, changing these rear brake shoes and the wheel bearing as been a nightmare, I only took of bearing to give me a full view as first time doing drum brakes and thought "easy enough, one added nut". I managed to get it off with a combination of heat of and grinding the race just enough to help with expansion. The issue is just like before , I tried putting another bearing on and it doesn't want to go done onto the spindle? I tried taking it off with a good yank and guess what, that race is now stuck on. For some reason it just doesn't want to go on like before?

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[RUM4MO]

I suppose all you can do now, once that bearing is back off, is to tidy up the spindle as it is obviously slightly damaged now or marked when removing the old bearing, I did not have that trouble when I took one side off my daughter's old 2009 Ibiza, I only took one side off and used what I discovered on that side to help me clean up the other side without removing the hub.
That sort of thing is why I hate drum brakes, I can see that most newer cars will only ever come with them and not discs to save money, for instance the VW ID3 all models have rear drum brakes!!

 

[everson38]

I suppose all you can do now, once that bearing is back off, is to tidy up the spindle as it is obviously slightly damaged now or marked when removing the old bearing, I did not have that trouble when I took one side off my daughter's old 2009 Ibiza, I only took one side off and used what I discovered on that side to help me clean up the other side without removing the hub.
That sort of thing is why I hate drum brakes, I can see that most newer cars will only ever come with them and not discs to save money, for instance the VW ID3 all models have rear drum brakes!!

That's the thing, it's strange, becuase I haven't marked the spindle with he angle grinder, maybe the heat has caused something. But this.problem happened before I done anything to it, I took bearing off for brake shoes and back on again when I was done, but the wheel bolts were fouling on the inside, so I starting again, took of bearing for better view and then once I was done it was this time when it just didn't want to go on, then it got stuck and then the rest explained. But it seized on somehow with no intervention intially? I challenge anyone to find a more unlucky home mechanic as.me. As I'm unsure of where to go now, as I'll be going through wheels bearings like no one's business at this rate.

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[Woody_72]

If you can get the new bearing off you could try hosing the stub axle with freezer spray and putting the bearing in a plastic bag and submerging it in very hot water to get a good temperature difference, wear gloves obviously. If you use some sort of tube to tap it on, only push the inner race, not the outer one.

 

[everson38]

If you can get the new bearing off you could try hosing the stub axle with freezer spray and putting the bearing in a plastic bag and submerging it in very hot water to get a good temperature difference, wear gloves obviously. If you use some sort of tube to tap it on, only push the inner race, not the outer one.

Hey woody thanks for the suggestion, I'm up for anything at the , been a nightmare, domtou know of worse comes to worse can you replace the stub axle all together or is it you have to replace the hole rear axle as a unit?

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[Crossthreaded]

Hi everson, so sorry to hear of your tribulations. It looks to me, after carefully studying your photos, that the inner race was slightly "coggled", ie askew, on the stub axle. Did it pull off quite easily until it jammed up just at the last wee bit? If so that would seem to support that theory. The bearing was almost off so, for future reference, what I'd have done was to square the race up on the axle (it looks slightly downward pointing?) by tapping that top edge back onto the axle until it was "square on". Then I'd have pulled it off with a 3 legged puller (If you don't have one you can buy them for peanuts on line) Then I'd have taken some medium grade emery strip and buffed the axle all round - I've even filed them when the axle is very badly marked - This will remove next to nothing in terms of shaft diameter but will smooth out irregularities. The new bearing always slips on fine after this. Don't get worried about doing this, it's not the tight fit of the inner race on the shaft that stops it rotating in use it's the fact that the axle nut is done up very tight indeed thus "sandwiching" the outer bearing's inner race, the spacer and inner bearing's inner race which stops them rotating. By the way, If you split a bearing, as you have here, so all the balls fall out, Whilst some will be able to be reassembled with finger pressure if it's a tight fit it's best not to try to hammer it back together - the races are very hard but very brittle and you may crack it without realizing you have, which, of course, is not good. Instead put the inner race in the freezer for a half hour or so and see if it will then reassemble. Putting the outer race in the oven to expand it can help too but it can result in a ruined seal if it's a sealed type bearing. Wait 'till everything is back to normal temp before trying to assemble onto the stub axle of course!

I've seen inner bearings "coggle" like this on a number of occassions. The outer race comes away clean because the entire bearing assembly keeps it square to the shaft but the inner bearing, as you've found, is being pulled apart so the balls aren't in contact with the race to keep it square and then, at the very last moment, it goes squint "coggled" and jams. If you're dismantling this sort of set up take it easy and if it starts to hang up push it back on and try again, sometimes it helps to get your fingers round the back to help support the inner race but this will depend on the seal design as some stop you getting at the inner race. Generally speaking these come off pretty easily. If you're needing to apply force stop immediately, push it back on and try again.

As woody says above, only ever drive against the race that's being installed, in this case the inner race. Also, Replacing the axle? I can't see anything from your photos to indicate this might be needed. I've come across bearings stuck on shafts like this all my life and only ever replaced one I can remember (front hub on a Reliant Scimitar where the bearing had actually seized so the inner race was rotating, at wheel speed, on the stub axle (this was a RWD vehicle) The bearing had actually cut about a third of the way through the axle when the customer came in complaining mainly of wheel balance problems "Oh, The brake pedal seems to be going down a long way and there's a wee noise from the front wheel too!" It was the wheel/hub/disc assembly "waggling" around on the stub axle! Absolutely horrendous. The customer asked our receptionist how long it was going to take as he was needed in Aberdeen that afternoon! The boss hired him a car! I'm not too sure about your car without researching it but most beam rear axles are made so a stub axle can be replaced if needed simply by unbolting it - If the bolts aren't rusted solid!

 

[everson38]

Hey Cross,

Thanks for the your condolences lol. I almost out all my tools on a garage sale after this one lol.
Frustration and annoyance is an understatement.

But the pictures you see above are me trying to refit the original bearing, but it got jammed pretty much straight away, it honestly did not slide down the shaft at all. Once I saw it wasn't going down I tried pulling it off but again it wasn't budging, it took some heat and long.pry bar on the back of the bearing to get the majority of it off but then it left the inner race as seen in pics above. I eventually managed to get the inner race off with some heat and slightly grinding into the race without hitting the shaft... Yayyyy!!! But then I tried to put on a brand new bearing and that got stuck again straightaway, tried to put it off and currently it is sitting with a second race stuck on the shaft. After this I downed tools and when inside to cry.

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[everson38]

If you can get the new bearing off you could try hosing the stub axle with freezer spray and putting the bearing in a plastic bag and submerging it in very hot water to get a good temperature difference, wear gloves obviously. If you use some sort of tube to tap it on, only push the inner race, not the outer one.

I'm currently buying some tools and parts based on everyone's suggestions, so I can have everything I need to attempt different things. You mention about freeze spray (never hear of this before). Is there a difference in the two (see pic). One seems more for quick getting off bolts and the other seems more used for plumbing. Since I'm trying to keep the shaft cold for long periods is one better than the other?

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[Woody_72]

The one on the left looks fine, the one on the right says it's a refill for something.

 

[RUM4MO]

They will both do the same thing, ie have a compressed fluid that is very keep to evaporate, it is the evaporation that takes in the heat of the spindle in this case and allows the compressed fluid to gas off, leaving the spindle a lot colder than it started off being.

If the second one is meant for freezing pipework and so allowing a damaged section to be cut out without water escaping from the open end (as it has a frozen plug of water in the pipe), it would normally get used with some fittings, and so that version will probably not discharge its contents unless the "special" fitting is fitted to the can, so in this case better to avoid - as Woody is saying it is marketed as a refill, that would back that theory up.

 

[RUM4MO]

Just one question to satisfy my curiosity, are you buying and replacing the fully assembled hub - as that is what VW Group sell for this repair, or are you just sourcing a new suitable bearing and fitting that into your original hub assembly? Personally I would always go with what the manufacturer sells as spares in term of contents, so in this case not a single compatible bearing assembly but a complete hub, typically that is the way that things have gone as bearing design as improved - ie most times a zero workshop time larger assembly is provided for many reasons, and one of these many reasons would be that specialist tooling is normally required to work on later bearing designs.

 

[RUM4MO]

Also, typically these cars need a new hub nut as the original one is a nyloc type - so always better to replace with a new one, a rear hub assembly from most sources will include a new hub nut.

The glide pads on the back plate, if you have time, check that they are still flat, if they are not they will stop the shoes retracting properly, I think that they are cheap as chips.

 

[everson38]

Just one question to satisfy my curiosity, are you buying and replacing the fully assembled hub - as that is what VW Group sell for this repair, or are you just sourcing a new suitable bearing and fitting that into your original hub assembly? Personally I would always go with what the manufacturer sells as spares in term of contents, so in this case not a single compatible bearing assembly but a complete hub, typically that is the way that things have gone as bearing design as improved - ie most times a zero workshop time larger assembly is provided for many reasons, and one of these many reasons would be that specialist tooling is normally required to work on later bearing designs.

Hey Rum you alittle more clued up then more, so I'll try answer your questions:

1) Yes I am doing a full bearing replacement / hub, as it "seemed" the easiest and smartest lol. The only other thing I am actually considering if this axle stub spindle is somehow distorted , is seeing if you can buy that part also, as it looks like you remove four bolt, from the dust shield and then you can remove the spindle from there. (Haynes manual make it seem so) But I am having trouble sourcing this part (unless I am being daft - I type in seat Ibiza rear Stub axle but doesn't seem to be mainstream as was hoping it was a collect from euro car parts

2) the gliding pads : I assume they are the little off white collected circles in the dust shield. (See first pic) I will double check those as I'm having a slight issue with one side of the brake drums not sitting correctly and the wheel bolts are slightly fouling on the brake shoe yolk (I think it's called) internals and causing a rubbing noise, where as other side is fine. But one insanely annoying problem at a time lol

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[RUM4MO]

I'd think that the reason why you are not finding places like ECP listing these stub axles is that they will only stock products that move fast and frequently.

Two places to get a stub axle, scrappy or any VW Group dealership, they would need to order one in from the main warehouse as again that will not be a frequently asked for part.

Like Crossthreaded I think that any surface damage on that stub axle could be tidied up wit a bit of time and care using basic hand tools, plus greasing the stub axle to help things along.

I'd also guess that in 95% of cases, the only reason to replace a stub axle is because the car had been kerbed heavily and so after carrying out alignment checks, that stub axle was proved to be bent - which is not the sort of issue you are having.

Also I think that there is a spacer pressed onto that stub axle, so buying a new stub axle would just give you a new plain stub axle, you world also need to order in a spacer and get a workshop to press the spacer on to it - though I could be wrong there, I'll check up a parts listing and edit this posting.

So, in your shoes, I would spend a bit of time finding out where the damage was on that stub axle and tidy it up using an old bearing inner race to prove all was well then fit the new hub assembly when you get it. Only then after failing to get things sorted out would I try to get a stub axle from a scrappy - if in deed they are willing to separate it from the axle and not try to sell you the complete rear axle assembly.

Getting back to "ends of the road wheel bolts fowling the brake shoes yoke - something not right there, are the wheel bolts the original VW Group supplied ones, ie 46-47mm in length overall or 26-27mm in length from the base of the spherical seat, and genuine VW Group wheels?

Edit:- I am wrong, there is no separate spacer on the rear axle stubs, it is one piece.

 

[everson38]

I'd think that the reason why you are not finding places like ECP listing these stub axles is that they will only stock products that move fast and frequently.

Two places to get a stub axle, scrappy or any VW Group dealership, they would need to order one in from the main warehouse as again that will not be a frequently asked for part.

Like Crossthreaded I think that any surface damage on that stub axle could be tidied up wit a bit of time and care using basic hand tools, plus greasing the stub axle to help things along.

I'd also guess that in 95% of cases, the only reason to replace a stub axle is because the car had been kerbed heavily and so after carrying out alignment checks, that stub axle was proved to be bent - which is not the sort of issue you are having.

Also I think that there is a spacer pressed onto that stub axle, so buying a new stub axle would just give you a new plain stub axle, you world also need to order in a spacer and get a workshop to press the spacer on to it - though I could be wrong there, I'll check up a parts listing and edit this posting.

So, in your shoes, I would spend a bit of time finding out where the damage was on that stub axle and tidy it up using an old bearing inner race to prove all was well then fit the new hub assembly when you get it. Only then after failing to get things sorted out would I try to get a stub axle from a scrappy - if in deed they are willing to separate it from the axle and not try to sell you the complete rear axle assembly.

Getting back to "ends of the road wheel bolts fowling the brake shoes yoke - something not right there, are the wheel bolts the original VW Group supplied ones, ie 46-47mm in length overall or 26-27mm in length from the base of the spherical seat, and genuine VW Group wheels?

Edit:- I am wrong, there is no separate spacer on the rear axle stubs, it is one piece.

Yes I agree I do believe or I hope just some.good.cleaning maybe.some slight sanding, I don't have any Emery paper, but do have wet and dry sand paper (what type of grit should I be looking at). But yes the stubby is a last resort, as it's not.my.car and it needs to go to Nottingham soon, so all rush rush but also I've got work.

The wheel bolts are not original as the alloys are after market, but it doesn't catch on the other side, but I actually cannot see anything wrong. I will have to check and measure them, but if not could be.my fault but again my sister's alloy are atrocious, she's is Mrs Curb

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[everson38]

Question for all, I'm also thinking to try get the 2nd stuck race of with a gear puller? Any reasons why this wouldn't work or be a bad idea?
@RUM4MO @Crossthreaded @Woody_72 [IMG]//uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210703/8840b2af25abcffbc2a340dd94cc82a7.jpg[/IMG][IMG]//uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210703/8281e14d2c20ca5c2cf5cfdddffc6f69.jpg[/IMG]

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@Crossthreaded @Woody_72

 

[RUM4MO]

Maybe because I don't use Tapatalk, I can't split the puller kit that you are referring to from the rest of what is a single hot link, sorry!

 

[RUM4MO]

One other I'll add here, for anyone that is interested, is, on all normal VW Group cars, using wheel bolts that end up projecting any more than 17.5mm from the rear face of any wheels or any wheels + spacers is just not correct as these bolts are M15 so full strength bolt to hub, is reached easily by this point and that includes adding 2.5mm to cover for lead in both on the bolts and the fixing holes in the hubs.

This is a safe general statement as it includes both VW Group wheels along with VW Group bolts with spherical seats, or aftermarket wheels with any spherical seats, or aftermarket with taper seat bolts.

Aftermarket wheel suppliers are usually a bit lazy so only list and supply maybe 3 bolt lengths to cover maybe 7 bolt "needs".

Unless you have done a lot of checking both at the front hubs and the rear hubs, you are only guessing what "bolt projection length" is always safe for both front and rear instals. Finding out that came from me needing to check if the bolts supplied for use with aftermarket wheels were okay, the other issue is, if you have a longer than necessary section of wheel bolt sticking out from the back of the hubs, but still keeping clear of any other parts when the wheel is rotating, they will get even more nasty curd building u on them, and that extra curd being forced back through the hub fixing holes is only going to lead to more frustration and maybe extra wear on these hub fixing holes when you get a puncture and that is the only time you ever remove wheels.