Loads of wheelspin on launch control

[Fishbowlhead]

That much power going through just the front it has to be,

Manual.
Decent dog bone insert.
Good throttle control.
Michelin pilot sport 4s.

Or,
4x4.

 

[70 Plate- Cupra 290]

This is completely normal and nothing can really be done about it, 300 Bhp on launch in a FWD nothing much can be done, Although when I launch iv noticed not turning the TRC off completely helps a little. Doesnt give only wheelspin at the begining.

 

[Cuprabenwytm]

Launch control on fwd is a gimmic

Sent from my MRD-LX1 using Tapatalk

 

[SuperV8]

That much power going through just the front it has to be,

Manual.
Decent dog bone insert.
Good throttle control.
Michelin pilot sport 4s.

Or,
4x4.

Yes but that's surely the point of launch control in powerful cars - to 'electronically' control & limit the power going to the driven wheels to allow maximum acceleration from the available limited grip. The computers know each wheel speed so should be easy to allow a maximum of say 5% variance in wheel speed between axles, anything more then limit engine power.

OP; Are you keeping ESC on as required in the manual?

 

[seatram]

Yes but that's surely the point of launch control in powerful cars - to 'electronically' control & limit the power going to the driven wheels to allow maximum acceleration from the available limited grip. The computers know each wheel speed so should be easy to allow a maximum of say 5% variance in wheel speed between axles, anything more then limit engine power.

OP; Are you keeping ESC on as required in the manual?


View attachment 25696

Also mentions to use Sport mode and not Cupra mode. I was fully turning off the ASR and ESC. I will try using sport mode instead and keeping the ESC on next time, see what the difference is like!

 

[Fishbowlhead]

You can’t really “launch control” a fwd with a dsg, physics with that much power through the front just doesn’t allow it.

Has to be manual and do it all yourself to vary the power in to keep grip, my 280 is a manual and you can just keep traction with practice, but you can never fully floor it for a “launch” like a 4x4 can.

 

[DigitalSushi]

If launch control just lets the front tyres spin away then what on earth is its point?
I thought launch control reduced wheel slip to get a better 'launch'?

In a manual you can set the launch revs and grade power with the clutch etc that will always give you a better launch, to be honest i see no point in LC on a manual (infact is it even there?)

But in the DSG model you cannot rev the engine normally whilst stopped. so basically the clutch will engage at about 800rm normally or a little over 1k rpm in sport. As soon as you touch the accelerator the clutches try to engage.

Launch Control (which to me it isn't really) allows you to hold the brake, rev the engine higher (up to about 3.5k) and it only releases the clutch when you release the brake. The problem is it doesn't release the clutches in a controlled fashion, it pretty much slams them together which means if your engine is doing 3.5k rpm your likely to just spin the wheels.. And ironically you turnm off the traction control, esp and all that guff to engage it so yeh its a bit pointless to me

 

[SuperV8]

In a manual you can set the launch revs and grade power with the clutch etc that will always give you a better launch, to be honest i see no point in LC on a manual (infact is it even there?)

But in the DSG model you cannot rev the engine normally whilst stopped. so basically the clutch will engage at about 800rm normally or a little over 1k rpm in sport. As soon as you touch the accelerator the clutches try to engage.

Launch Control (which to me it isn't really) allows you to hold the brake, rev the engine higher (up to about 3.5k) and it only releases the clutch when you release the brake. The problem is it doesn't release the clutches in a controlled fashion, it pretty much slams them together which means if your engine is doing 3.5k rpm your likely to just spin the wheels.. And ironically you turnm off the traction control, esp and all that guff to engage it so yeh its a bit pointless to me

As in the screen shot I posted you are supposed to leave ESC ON - otherwise the manual says you can get wheel spin!
I haven't got launch control on my Leon so can't comment on the effectiveness of the system, my comments are just my thoughts as an engineer. It must be easy for the on board computers to see differences in wheel speed between the front and rear axles - and then 'allow' a minimal difference of a few % (highest tyre mu is actually at a small amount of slip) for optimal acceleration and NOT allow big axle speed differences (by reducing engine power/speed)
The DSG version has a quicker 0-60 than the manual - and I imaging this is done with the aid of launch control?

 

[DigitalSushi]

As in the screen shot I posted you are supposed to leave ESC ON - otherwise the manual says you can get wheel spin!
I haven't got launch control on my Leon so can't comment on the effectiveness of the system, my comments are just my thoughts as an engineer. It must be easy for the on board computers to see differences in wheel speed between the front and rear axles - and then 'allow' a minimal difference of a few % (highest tyre mu is actually at a small amount of slip) for optimal acceleration and NOT allow big axle speed differences (by reducing engine power/speed)
The DSG version has a quicker 0-60 than the manual - and I imaging this is done with the aid of launch control?

However in order to get it to actually use launch control (DSG model that i have) you have to press and hold the ESC button for 5 seconds or something (in that manual second paragraph middle column says you have to switch it off). This lights up the dashboard like a Christmas tree with many yellow triangles to essentially warn you that its you vs friction and you might die...

Then it spins the wheels like there's no tomorrow if you plant your foot and makes absolutely no effort to fix it. its totally counter intuitive, to engage LC you seemingly need to switch off the systems that for me would be doing the working out and fixing of spinning wheels as you describe.


If you don't do that ESC/ASR switch off then you press the brake and touch the accelerator and you can feel the "launch control" is not active, the car tries to push against the brakes as soon as you touch the accelerator like a normal start.

I think that note manual is saying really you should not run with all of this off as it is a safety issue to cover Seat when Johnny iidjut crashes having turned it all off and tries to sue .

 

[Fishbowlhead]

However in order to get it to actually use launch control (DSG model that i have) you have to press and hold the ESC button for 5 seconds or something (in that manual second paragraph middle column says you have to switch it off). This lights up the dashboard like a Christmas tree with many yellow triangles to essentially warn you that its you vs friction and you might die...

Then it spins the wheels like there's no tomorrow if you plant your foot and makes absolutely no effort to fix it. its totally counter intuitive, to engage LC you seemingly need to switch off the systems that for me would be doing the working out and fixing of spinning wheels as you describe.


If you don't do that ESC/ASR switch off then you press the brake and touch the accelerator and you can feel the "launch control" is not active, the car tries to push against the brakes as soon as you touch the accelerator like a normal start.

I think that note manual is saying really you should not run with all of this off as it is a safety issue to cover Seat when Johnny iidjut crashes having turned it all off and tries to sue .

This with a fwd with a dsg?

 

[SuperV8]

However in order to get it to actually use launch control (DSG model that i have) you have to press and hold the ESC button for 5 seconds or something (in that manual second paragraph middle column says you have to switch it off). This lights up the dashboard like a Christmas tree with many yellow triangles to essentially warn you that its you vs friction and you might die...

Then it spins the wheels like there's no tomorrow if you plant your foot and makes absolutely no effort to fix it. its totally counter intuitive, to engage LC you seemingly need to switch off the systems that for me would be doing the working out and fixing of spinning wheels as you describe.


If you don't do that ESC/ASR switch off then you press the brake and touch the accelerator and you can feel the "launch control" is not active, the car tries to push against the brakes as soon as you touch the accelerator like a normal start.

I think that note manual is saying really you should not run with all of this off as it is a safety issue to cover Seat when Johnny iidjut crashes having turned it all off and tries to sue .

The manual says to turn off/disconnect ASR (Anti Slip Regulation) - NOT the ESC (Electronic Stability Control)!
And says if both are turned off you'll get wheel spin.
Are you saying you can't do this? Turn ASR off and leave ESC on?
ASR and ESC are two different systems.

 

[DigitalSushi]

This with a fwd with a dsg?

yup

 

[DigitalSushi]

The manual says to turn off/disconnect ASR (Anti Slip Regulation) - NOT the ESC (Electronic Stability Control)!
And says if both are turned off you'll get wheel spin.
Are you saying you can't do this? Turn ASR off and leave ESC on?
ASR and ESC are two different systems.

So i see your point here and thought i would go and have an actual; look, aaand the plot thickens

here's the dash in the only setup that I can do launch control with (or at least i thought that was the only way).

ESC Definitely off..

but in my manual it says the same as yours only turn ASR (which the manual defines as traction control) off for launch control to work.

However I have no settings in the Easy connect system contrary to the manual for my model to do this which is what I think the confusion is. I only have ESC settings I think the software has been updated and the manuals haven't, or the cupra is wired differently to the leon.

though would be intrigued to see if this is the same on anyone else's 18 plate cupra.

If I do not do that highlighted in green, and have the car in cupra mode (though admittedly i have never tried it in sport) the LC will not activate. as it now looks like for some reason this is the only way I have to disable ASR completely

That being said, it still means that even according to seat you have to turn off traction control to make launch control active. when surely launch control is supposed to be a slightly more involved traction control. You cannot launch if you are not controlling the traction. or am I missing something here. Also stupidly this turns off the other esc systems one of which is the electronic differential which seems even more counter intuitive.

Im gonna find a carpark tonight and see if i can get it to work in other modes because now you got me thinking. think my neighbours might object to me doing it on my street..


Nub of it is though whatever the settings are it's utterly useless.. you spin the wheels like mad and go nowhere

 

[SuperV8]

Why is it so complicated! In a Porsche (I believe - I don't have one haha) you just hold your foot on the brake - floor the throttle, release the brake and off you shoot!
To me all this rampant wheel spin while launching means the launch isn't activating/working correctly? not surprising as it's so complicated. More like the mode when you're in mud/snow and you need wheel speed to try and get you out.

Does anyone with FWD & DSG get the launch to work?

 

[Fishbowlhead]

A Porsche is 4wd, so launch control would work just fine.

I think we can safely establish that “launch control” on a dsg fwd shouldn’t really be a thing and doesn’t work.

Which leaves 2 options,
1: get a manual and do it all yourself, but your still guna get wheelspin at some point on a fwd.

2: get a 4wd with a dsg, in which “launch control” will work.

 

[DigitalSushi]

well shoot the bed...

I stand corrected, well sort of as it seems its not as straightforward as you'd think it should be. I found a quiet carpark and did some messing (will be quite odd if the warehouse looks at their CCTV and see someone one in a car launching themselves up and down the carpark like a pleb)

So here is the way I thought is the only way to get this to happen. But i was wrong (a rare occurrence! )

Pull up to line, switch to cupra mode (I generally don't drive on Bolton roads in Cupra mode as I have vertebrae that I would like still intact..), press and hold the ESC/TC button on the dash for 5 seconds - ESC OFF. LC activated. Tyres melted..

Here is what i tried and failed

Pull up, switch to Cupra, tap the button to go to ESC Sport only, LC did not want to engage. No switching modes etc seems to make this want to work once stopped

Pull up in Cupra mode, tap the button to go to ESC Sport only, LC did not want to engage


And now ladies and gents, this is what worked...

Pull up, switch to Cupra, switch esc sport using the easy connect menu, not the dashboard button . LC engaged < why the button on the dash and the mib setting is treated different I have no understanding. I can only think a little bug in the software or something, because when you press the button on the dash it changes the option in the menu so surely they are the same thing

Pull up, already in Cupra, already in ESC sport (button or MIB), LC will engage.. every time < this is seemingly the best way to do it in my car.


Soooo, frankly after all of that it seems that if you press the buttons in he correct order well certainly in my motor you can do LC it with esc sport on...

Yeh again, if you plant your foot to the floor you bounce the wheels like mad but to be honest it does this in LC mode or not really, the tramping is more toward the top end as the power really spools up. However it now seems a lot more controlled in the first phase of acceleration which is always the ropey bit in the fwd with ESC off..

So there you go... I am still a bit confused as to the switching it on process being inconsistent. But thnk you SuperV8 for questioning it and making me look into it further as I have found a new toy to play with for a bit on the car and actually oddly it is simpler to do and better..

 

[SuperV8]

well shoot the bed...

I stand corrected, well sort of as it seems its not as straightforward as you'd think it should be. I found a quiet carpark and did some messing (will be quite odd if the warehouse looks at their CCTV and see someone one in a car launching themselves up and down the carpark like a pleb)

So here is the way I thought is the only way to get this to happen. But i was wrong (a rare occurrence! )

Pull up to line, switch to cupra mode (I generally don't drive on Bolton roads in Cupra mode as I have vertebrae that I would like still intact..), press and hold the ESC/TC button on the dash for 5 seconds - ESC OFF. LC activated. Tyres melted..

Here is what i tried and failed

Pull up, switch to Cupra, tap the button to go to ESC Sport only, LC did not want to engage. No switching modes etc seems to make this want to work once stopped

Pull up in Cupra mode, tap the button to go to ESC Sport only, LC did not want to engage


And now ladies and gents, this is what worked...

Pull up, switch to Cupra, switch esc sport using the easy connect menu, not the dashboard button . LC engaged < why the button on the dash and the mib setting is treated different I have no understanding. I can only think a little bug in the software or something, because when you press the button on the dash it changes the option in the menu so surely they are the same thing

Pull up, already in Cupra, already in ESC sport (button or MIB), LC will engage.. every time < this is seemingly the best way to do it in my car.


Soooo, frankly after all of that it seems that if you press the buttons in he correct order well certainly in my motor you can do LC it with esc sport on...

Yeh again, if you plant your foot to the floor you bounce the wheels like mad but to be honest it does this in LC mode or not really, the tramping is more toward the top end as the power really spools up. However it now seems a lot more controlled in the first phase of acceleration which is always the ropey bit in the fwd with ESC off..

So there you go... I am still a bit confused as to the switching it on process being inconsistent. But thnk you SuperV8 for questioning it and making me look into it further as I have found a new toy to play with for a bit on the car and actually oddly it is simpler to do and better..

Really interesting - thanks for feeding back.
There was another point from the manual I noticed; after using LC,

- after moving off, the ESC mode should be deactivated to turn ESC back on? seemed a strange instruction to me.

Why make LC so un-intuitive and fiddly to activate! Almost as if they don't want you using it, and only for magazine articles to get below 6 secs to 60!
If I was to guess - I would think it will control wheel spin for a certain point/time until you are off the line and rolling, then leave it up to the driver to carefully modulate the throttle?

 

[SuperV8]

A Porsche is 4wd, so launch control would work just fine.

I think we can safely establish that “launch control” on a dsg fwd shouldn’t really be a thing and doesn’t work.

Which leaves 2 options,
1: get a manual and do it all yourself, but your still guna get wheelspin at some point on a fwd.

2: get a 4wd with a dsg, in which “launch control” will work.

Most Porsche's are RWD.

 

[Fishbowlhead]

Most Porsche's are RWD.

Really? Fair enough I thought they were all 4wd now for traction

 

[CupraGeezer]

Most Porsche's are RWD.

These days most Porsches are SUVs. Cayennes & Macans massively outsell Boxsters, Caymans & 911s.