Leon Cupra R Noise at Idle after Cambelt change - Help!

[pooley25]

Hi fellow Cupra owners!

I have an on going problem with my Leon Cupra R 225 which I've had enough of and really want to put to bed, I'm hoping between you all you can come up with the answer!?

Had my timing belt changed along with everything else you could possibly service as I bought the car at 72,000 & some of the history was a bit vague so wanted to start fresh so I knew where I was.

After having the full belt kit changed at a well known VAG Specialist, upon picking up the car I was aware there was a kind of ( to the best I can describe) popping / vibrating noise coming from the timing belt area that wasn't there before.

I gave it the benefit of the doubt thinking it may just be because it was all new it needed to add in.

A few weeks worth of driving and I was convinced if anything the noise was getting worse.

Took the car back to the garage and asked them to take a look as I was concerned. They told me everything was fine, it's normal for BAM engines to be a little noisy.

However, I know it ran and sounded perfect before it went in, and I'm now frustrated as they're telling me it's fine but I know it wasn't and couldn't leave it.

I had a technician friend at another garage look at it, he decided the noise was coming from the main timing tensioner roller. I told him to just replace the whole kit again as I would claim for the kit under warranty.

He carried out the job again, but the noise is still there?

The noise has now escalated into a metallic clattery noise so now desperately seeking help and advice from you guys!

Just to fill you in, the kit used both times was a full Gates kit including hydraulic damper and water pump.

Has anyone got any ideas or experienced the same thing and knows what's wrong andwhat I need to do to sort it!?

You'll have to excuse me but I can't work out how or even if it's possible to add sound clips on here, but I found this YouTube video from someone else with a Jetta 1.8T that has had the same problem after changing the timing belt, the noise in the clip sounds identical to mine when I first picked it up, before it got worse and started sounding slightly clattery.

Here's the link...
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Q8shKTAkbvQ&feature=youtu.be[/url]

Any advice would be greatly, greatly appreciated people

 

[Bigjohn84]

That sounds like the belt is really really tight mate and the bairing in the wheel is grinding

 

[DrewCole]

It could be a few things that I could think of, without seeing the car.

Timing might be off, but still run reasonably well?
Like Jon said above, a pulley might be too tight?
Is something else that is totally unrelated to the belt loose or not been refitted following the first belt change?

Was it a local garage that carried out the work, are there any other VAG places near that could have a look at it perhaps.

If you are ever near Chelmsford, I use VW Audi Tech here for all of my cars, they have always been spot on with their work and advice.

I did once have a belt changed by a local garage, they forgot to tighten up the tensioner which resulted in the belt flapping around and snapping. Another garage fixed it all for me and charged the work back to the first people.

Keep us updated on what you find out.

 

[sockpuppet]

+1 for VW auditech.

Are you 100% sure it's timing belt related as it's common for the alternator clutch pulley to go or the drive belt tensioner, but that normally results in vibration and you will see the drive belt isn't moving smoothly.

 

[pooley25]

That sounds like the belt is really really tight mate and the bairing in the wheel is grinding

I at first thought it sounded like the belt might be too tight, but then what can cause it to be too tight?

Generally there is no adjustment to the tensioning side of it, you just pull the pin out of the hydraulic damper? Surely you can't get it wrong?

 

[pooley25]

+1 for VW auditech.

Are you 100% sure it's timing belt related as it's common for the alternator clutch pulley to go or the drive belt tensioner, but that normally results in vibration and you will see the drive belt isn't moving smoothly.

Yes Sockpuppet...

I have ran it for a few minutes with the Aux belt off and the noise is still there, so that eliminates any of those components.

As it happens the alternator clutch pulley was a little noisy, which was another reason I had it in the the specialist, they changed that at the same time (That noise is now gone!)

 

[pooley25]

I'm 95% sure it is definitely coming from the cambelt area, as it gets louder and more obvious if I pull open the top timing belt cover.

 

[pooley25]

I must just add, the car itself runs perfectly and smoothly. You can't even hear it when your driving, only on idle. I don't know if the noise eases with revs, or if it just gets drowned out by a higher engine note?

In my experience though, any noise that shouldn't be there, will always get worse, & potentially cause damage!!

 

[Alexis27]

Video would help!

 

[pooley25]

Not sure why but I can't upload the video?

However...I found this on YouTube, someone else with a 1.8T having the same trouble, mine sounds identical to this!


m.youtube.com/watch?v=Q8shKTAkbvQ&feature=youtu.be

 

[Bigjohn84]

You have to have 15 posts in 15 days and be a full member to post photos videos. I also have that noise but Dosnt sound so loud like your I just noticed it just now when I put my head under the bonnet, the same place also, I can't hear it in the car or with bonnet up I have to put my ear down

 

[pooley25]

Thanks for the info on posts etc mate.

I wouldn't mind so much if it was so quiet I had to put my head down under the bonnet to hear it! I wouldn't say you have a problem if it's that quiet

If I just stop to unload the boot or whatever it's all I can hear, even if I'm 20 metres away!

 

[Bigjohn84]

Yeh mines isn't loud but it sound exactly the same as your but quiet and coming from the same place

 

[JDUB 20V]

If your down Leicester way at any point I don't mind looking at it.

 

[pooley25]

If your down Leicester way at any point I don't mind looking at it.

Thanks JDUB.

UPDATE

I had my technician friend take another look yesterday.

When we pulled everything out the way and took off the Upper timing cover is was noticeable straight away that the tension on the timing belt wasn't as tight as it should be. The belt was fairly loose. We pulled up on the tensioner lever arm and it came up quite easily applying the correct tension on the belt. Technically indicating that the hydraulic damper isn't applying enough force to the arm of the tensioner roller?

Because we were in there and I had some replacement parts we fitted yet another new Hydraulic damper and tensioner roller, this time the parts were in INA boxes. Again though, the parts themselves were marked up with NTN just like the Gates kits that had previously been fitted. This is evidence that the majority of OEM manufacturer cambelt kits contain genuine bought in components directly from NTN (VAG groups OE manufacturer for there components)

Job complete, we ran the engine. Sounded perfect for the first 5 minutes whilst engine was cold... As soon as the Revs dropped as it warmed boom, the noise was back. Definitely the tensioner arm 'vibrating' on the piston of the damper. Again, we were able to pull up on the tensioner arm, applying more tension to the belt.

Is there a huge problem with NTN hydraulic dampers not applying the correct pressure, or has my cambelt change been carried out incorrectly 3 times now!!? Are we missing something? I can't believe that I am the only one that's had or having this trouble?

 

[sockpuppet]

Where does the hydraulic tensioner get the pressure from? Is it from the engine oil? If so could a blocked oil pickup filter being causing it?

 

[pooley25]

Where does the hydraulic tensioner get the pressure from? Is it from the engine oil? If so could a blocked oil pickup filter being causing it?

That's what's more annoying, the damper is a self contained unit. It's not fed by anything. I've changed it 3 times now, using an OE NTN damper each time, surely I can't have had 3 faulty units all from different batch numbers?

 

[JDUB 20V]

The tensioner is faulty if not maintaining tension, try not to rev too much incase timing jumps. Try OE item from tps etc and look to claim your money back from these faulty batch items. Feel for you as this isnt cheap easy work. Good luck with it bud.

 

[pooley25]

The tensioner is faulty if not maintaining tension, try not to rev too much incase timing jumps. Try OE item from tps etc and look to claim your money back from these faulty batch items. Feel for you as this isnt cheap easy work. Good luck with it bud.

Tell me about it, it's costing me a fortune and getting no where!

I thought about trying a damper from TPS, but then if the ones I've fitted are made by NTN anyway, I can't see how that would make any difference?

I don't think it's getting loose enough to jump a tooth but it's definitely not as taught as it should be.

 

[pooley25]

Here's link to a video of the noise now... Same noise present after all 3 cambelt changes!

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Lg9UgWFVVnU

How many of you VAG 1.8T owners out there also have or have had this noise? And how do you get rid of it!