Lucifer's ultimate guide: 1.4tsi fundamental problems

[lucifer666]

Oil restrictor from astra vxr is the one to get, looking some vxr forums and you'll find the part number

 

[lucifer666]

Reference tuning, no guide as of yet as I ain't finished with mine yet. But I've cracked 300bhp with ease whilst limiting torque to 360nm to keep the dsg happy. Absolutely no lag and peak bhp and peak torque are at the top of the rpm range. If you look at some of the maps available so far, torque tails off after 3500rpm, whilst peak power is around 6000, therefore you spend most of your time if your nailing it not at peak torque.
TSR ****ed my engine up though by not boreing out the head gasket to match the re bore of the cylinder so it got molten hot and damaged the piston heads and sized the little ends and ruining the rods too. Caught it early enough though. Cant talk about it too much though as I will be pursuing legal action when all the evidence is gathered

 

[VrsGeo]

Reference tuning, no guide as of yet as I ain't finished with mine yet. But I've cracked 300bhp with ease whilst limiting torque to 360nm to keep the dsg happy. Absolutely no lag and peak bhp and peak torque are at the top of the rpm range. If you look at some of the maps available so far, torque tails off after 3500rpm, whilst peak power is around 6000, therefore you spend most of your time if your nailing it not at peak torque.
TSR ****ed my engine up though by not boreing out the head gasket to match the re bore of the cylinder so it got molten hot and damaged the piston heads and sized the little ends and ruining the rods too. Caught it early enough though. Cant talk about it too much though as I will be pursuing legal action when all the evidence is gathered

Thanks for the heads up about the vxr restrictor bolt. Gonna do this b4 I put on the 3" down pipe on to my 3" cat bk

 

[lucifer666]

Apparently according to my new turbo specialist, the ratio of compressor wheel to turbine on the loba is useless which means it's so hard to map.

And it seems turbodynamics are on the list of people who know nothing by about car parts. They were asked to increase the bearing quality to as robust as possible and according to my expert, there's so much more they could have done, so their not surprised the seal kept going as easy. That coupled by TSRs botch job with the engine has resulted in the seal going easier. Fools

 

[villa chris]

Would these problems would still occur on the 2016 1.4 tsi model.cheers.

 

[villa chris]

Im hearing a hell of alot of horror stories regarding this 1.4 tsi engine.ive only just ordered mine but after hearing lots of bad things in getting worried.im hearing some great reviews regarding the engine itself but nearly every post i look at lately they are breaking down.

 

[lucifer666]

Well in pushing 320bhp so I'm a little different, read my guide and you won't go far wrong. If your engine is a cthe engine code, it will be fine. Just don't decathlon the exhaust or go bigger than 2.5-2.7". Also use 0w40 over 10w40/10w30 outlined by seat.

 

[VrsGeo]

Whoops I have a 3" cat bk and was gonna go for 3" decat or sports cat I might change my mind now!

 

[villa chris]

how would i find out if i have a cthe engine?

 

[lucifer666]

3" cutback is fine, you could get away with a 3" sports cat. Just get the restrictor bolt first

 

[VrsGeo]

Cheers Lucifer

 

[dezthestig]

Oil restrictor from astra vxr is the one to get, looking some vxr forums and you'll find the part number

Thank you very much for the advice I'm going to buy one from regal auto sport

 

[benwalsall]

PART NUMBERS

I will be updating this section soon to include all the up to date part numbers and I will highlight the ones essential to solve the problems above or needed for tuning.

did you ever manage to find a comprehensive list of the product codes

would be a great help
thanks ben

 

[stadan]

3" cutback is fine, you could get away with a 3" sports cat. Just get the restrictor bolt first

I've got a 13 plate 1.4tsi cupra. Do I need to bother with the spark change for a stage 1 or would I be okay ?

Thanks

 

[Jayarjay]

Timing chain info

Hi guys, new to the forum.. i have a 2010 seat ibiza bocanegra, my timing chain has jumped and i need a new one, where is the best place to buy from? I need the timing chain kit and the VVT kit. Hope you can help, thank you. Jack.

 

[sunnykhan96]

FINALLY

I hope this is useful for people who see the 1.4TSI as a mystery. I was one of these people to begin with. I have done my best to provide the most comprehensive and accurate account of these problems as well as all the solutions that are possible. The information gathered has been supplied by SEAT head technicians, ECU tuning companies, Performance engine builders, Turbo technicians and my own personal findings.

If there are any questions or comments that you feel the need to ask, please do.

LOOK FORWARD TO.............LUCIFERS ULTIMATE GUIDE 2: TUNING THE 1.4TSI

STAY TUNED
​

Hi lucifer666, I tried to get in touch with through Hotmail also on private messages as I need help on the oil catch can set up... I got a forge spacer and it's blowing out oil. I'll need a custom oil catch can, I rang Jabba sport and they don't do them.... do you know where I can get a custom made from?

Thanks

Well in pushing 320bhp so I'm a little different, read my guide and you won't go far wrong. If your engine is a cthe engine code, it will be fine. Just don't decathlon the exhaust or go bigger than 2.5-2.7". Also use 0w40 over 10w40/10w30 outlined by seat.

Sent from my SGH-M919 using Tapatalk

 

[jamaicanjetta]

1. Misfiring, Oil Consumption, Engine Failure

This is the main worry for most 1.4TSI owners. Its not because of a single problem, but involves a number of factors which together they ultimately lead to engine failure.



A) Piston Rings

After it was finally admitted in late 2011 that there was a problem leading to engine failure(bearing in mind the engine came out in 2010), SEAT offered customers new piston rings.
Actually, what they were doing was fitting completely new pistons. It was VW trying to delude the customer that it was a minor piston ring batch problem rather than a major piston design problem.
In truth, its the pistons that were weak full stop and couldn't handle much punishment before they failed. The specific problem was that the part of the piston between the rings used to crack and then come away, damaging the piston rings and eating into the cylinder bores (although these have proven to be very strong due to being plasma coated).
There have been examples of totally standard cars having piston failure and these tend to be early cars with the original ignition hardware and OEM ECU software. Then when you add an ECU map you are bound to have a failure.
When these pistons crack, oil consumption is increased as it enters the combustion chamber, also lowering the effective octane value of the fuel being injected. This is not the only reason for oil consumption and equally the culprit is the turbocharger, especially on cars with aftermarket exhausts. I will talk about that later.
Its easy to blame the pistons but its not the whole story. If the car was used for daily driving and not running massive amounts of boost, there’s no reason why these pistons should be put under such an amount of punishment that it would result in failure........unless there are other contributing issues, which there are. Read on.........

Solution: Revised pistons 2012 onwards and come as standard in the CTHE/CTHF engine codes.



B) Ignition System

Injectors
These were problematic at the end of 2009/start 2010.
They would drip when stationary with the engine off causing oil to be washed off the bores and pistons, resulting in increased piston ware. Upon starting the engine, the engine would run lumpy because of the extra fuel in cylinder.
Another feature was a narrow spray pattern to the injector. This would result in an incomplete burn when fuelling is at its highest and the excess would collect on the surface of the piston, which would then ignite due to the heat of the engine. This would scorch the surface and cause carbon build up which collected on the exhaust valves. This would cause misfiring due to valves not shutting correctly. The crazy part is that by driving the car hard under boost then it would clean away enough carbon to allow normal operation without misfire but would also speed up the failure process.
When re-maps started getting released as fuelling was increased it was exaggerating the problem. This coupled with the weak pistons discussed earlier resulted in the early engine failures.

Solution: Revised Injectors with a wide spray pattern got released by SEAT mid 2010, chances are most cars have these now, which lead to other problems.

This new problem was at full fuelling the wide pattern would extinguish the spark of the spark plug which is sat almost directly in line with the injector. It is because this 1.4TSI engine is actually based on the old 1.4 16v engine from years ago so that wasn’t addressed. It was Revo Technik that actually discovered this after they had a piston fail whendeveloping their stage 2+ map, subsequently falling out with SEAT. They then halted theirdevelopment of this engine but came out with a couple of recommendations which I shall discuss below.​

Coil Packs
There were a batch of coil packs in 2010 that were faulty according to SEAT but again I believe that was an excuse to make them look less liable for their problems.
There were a later version of the coil packs in 2011 which again the CTHE/CTHF engines have as standard. I believe the aim was to increase the strength of the spark created by the plugs in order to try and stop the misfiring. From my experience these helped very little as the cause of the problem was still existent.



Seat Software+Spark Plugs+High Presure Fuel Pump
This is the main cause of the engine failures since 2010.
So as we know we have the weak pistons and new injectors with a wider spray pattern causing contamination of the spark plug tip.

One other thing I haven’t mentioned yet is the Software. When the engine was re-released as a performance engine in 2010, it coincided with new emission regulations. The pre 2010 variants under the old emission regulations had the same power output as the new FR (150) and engine failures with these were rare; yet the FR failures were as common as the CUPRA (180bhp) variant so it was nothing to do with the increased power output.
It was as a result of the software which ended up making the engine run a lean mixture when not under boost in an effort to meet these regulations.

As it stood, the engine itself ran hot due to its twincharged nature.
Pre detonation was therefore a problem. Fuel was ignited as a result of the heat build-up rather than the activation of the spark plug which, as was mentioned above, was not fully operational under high fuelling instances. So this was throwing timing out when booting the car after gentle driving/traffic situations, the spark plug was then firing without any fuel to ignite making the problem worse. This resulted in engine misfire and stutter until fuelling was increased enough to the extent that it was contaminating the spark plug as we discussed. The fuelling therefore went through cycles of being too lean and too rich.
There were further problems as a result of the ECU software. There were some floored parts of coding in the software that couldn’t control misfiring properly, which is so hard to believe when dealing with such a well established company such as VW. Revo again were the first to inform me of this parameter within the code.

Because the fuelling system is a 'demand' type, air quantity is measured and the correct amount of fuel is then supplied for the desired mixture(as set in the ECU). So when a misfire occurred, the ECU had no comprehension that the engine could possibly be running rich as a result of the misfire, only lean. It would then start increasing fuelling constantly expecting the misfiring to stop, to the point that the engine would completely stall and the cylinders were full of fuel.
This fuel would leak into the sump and mix with the oil which is detrimental to its function. This is another catalyst to the engine ware.
Revo found that cylinder 4 on the other hand, being the last cylinder to be supplied fuel along the common rail fuel supply, was starved of fuel. This is because the capacity of the fuelling system was max'd out; injectors 1, 2 and 3 were at full flow and there wasn’t sufficient fuel left to be able to supply injector 4. This lead to piston 4 being the one that failed in most cases.
SEAT released a new High Pressure Fuel Pump towards the end of 2011 as an attempt to stop the cylinder 4 starvation of fuel, which may or may not have helped, but didn’t address the cause of the problem.
Now when you have a serious bout of misfiring it is obvious, it is felt throughout the car and lights appear on the dash. The majority of the time, the engine would have invisible misfiring. When I logged the car, I found that misfiring was present constantly but not so bad as to be detectable. So this problem was going on to this degree undetected for a lot of cars, leading to piston 4 finally going.

Revo actually took it upon themselves to rewrite this part of the coding, which isn't the norm. Usually they just re configure boost pressure, Air-Fuel-Ratios, timing etc. After this was done people, including myself who were totally standard before, flocked to Revo just for a car that would work properly. It took SEAT several months after this to release software that would solve this problem but of course they still needed to abide by the new EU regulations which REVO didn’t.

In addition to the amended software, Revo also recommended a plug change to NGK Iridium BRK7EIX. This plug was shorter and colder so it sat out of the way of the flow of the injectors whilst reducing pre detonation. Again there is a disadvantage of these plugs. It is more difficult to create an efficient burn, especially on cold start-up. There will be a lumpy initial idle because the plug is on the edge of its operating temperature zone.
Carbon build-up on the valves is still a problem too.
SEAT then released a new model of plugs for this engine to work with their software which are shorter than the original plugs which work with their new software; but not a re-map.

Solution:Revo/New SEAT software + recommended plugs.
The new fuel pump released at the endof 2011 is not necessary but is handy for tuning as I know its adequate for over 300bhp, where the other one may be not.
All the above upgrades will be available on the 2012 cars onwards.





Misfiring is still present with these engines regardless of all the new hardware and software. It will just be on occasion when the right environment is created:

1. High Carbon Build up on the valves restricting exhaust gasses leaving the engine plus carbon build up on the plugs restricting the quality of spark.
- Caused by long slow driving or not using the turbocharger for extended periods

2. High intake temperatures
- Caused by heat soak when in traffic with high ambient temperatures.

3. Lower quality fuel (95ron supermarket)
- Caused by being a tight ass
,

Hey I'm having a recurring problem of spark plugs cracking specifically in cylinder 2 . Any thoughts on the possible cause . (cavd engine 145k km)

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[AlexTSI]

Hello dear 1.4 owners.
Is it possible to update the Part Numbers section in the OP ?

That would really help also, because - which one is, for example, the upgraded water pump?

 

[RUM4MO]

I don't know any thing about these problems, but, on reading your posting, in general, where genuine VAG parts have been updated, you will not be able to buy older versions of these parts from official VAG parts outlets - though they will appear on online auction sites etc. Also, VAG will change part numbers for many reasons, so when visiting your local SEAT dealer's part place, just request the parts by description as if you ask by part number, and that part number was superceded maybe a few times, then they might not be able to help you. I've had that problem on something as simple as an oil filter when dealing with newer/younger members of parts staff and copying part numbers from previous receipts or very old "hooky" parts catalogue.

 

[AlexTSI]

I don't know any thing about these problems, but, on reading your posting, in general, where genuine VAG parts have been updated, you will not be able to buy older versions of these parts from official VAG parts outlets - though they will appear on online auction sites etc. Also, VAG will change part numbers for many reasons, so when visiting your local SEAT dealer's part place, just request the parts by description as if you ask by part number, and that part number was superceded maybe a few times, then they might not be able to help you. I've had that problem on something as simple as an oil filter when dealing with newer/younger members of parts staff and copying part numbers from previous receipts or very old "hooky" parts catalogue.

So basically, the main recommendation would be to avoid aftermarket alternatives and chose OEM versions. Thanks very much, makes sense, i'll see into it.
Other than this : can someone please post a Radiator part no recommendation ?