Missing Power!! please help :)

[Mark27LCR]

I did post in another thread which looked similar but no replies maybe because it's an old thread but here goes.

Ok so in 2005 my Car was mapped by Jabbsport I only found out by ringing them that it was a Live serial port map rather than a stage 1 flash they also fitted a Boost controller that controls the N75 Duty Cycle which works well.

The Car was completely standard at the time and produced well I have print out for 205kw and 385nm roughly works out to I think (270bhp + 280 lb/ft)

Since I've had the car about a year now,
I've done the following

Badger 5 3" TIP
BMC filter & heat shield
Forge 008P
Piper 3" downpipe
Scorpion De-Cat and 2.5" Cat back non resonated
Tx Auto FMIC
2.5" intercooler pipework
n249 bypass (valve left plugged in)
Awesome Gti red top Coil packs

I understand that as it wasn't mapped for this hardware that the figures would be off but on a recent rolling road run it got 213 hp then 216 hp on the second run and only 218 ft/lb
could it be out by nearly 60bhp because it wasn't mapped for the above??

To rule out the RR one of the guys there had a remap 2 days before at badger5 and run 290bhp then run 291bhp here

To try and rectify this huge loss of power I have so far;
Cleaned the MAF IAT and throttle body with isopropanyl
Checked the sparkplugs and cleaned them up abit coil packs are new.
Checked compression 10 Bar on each cylinder
checked for boost leaks can't see anything obvious

and now i'm stuck could it be something like
a dodgy map sensor/n75/ o2 sensor?

I did a run this morning just to log some stuff but not sure what i'm looking for

just seen that it only requests 0.953 up till 5000 rpm and thought this may have something to do with it but I have no idea

again any help is appreciated I just want to rule out any hardware issues before I decide to get it mapped.

Mark

 

[James D1]

i dont know what im looking at in logs. but if you've done all that hardware and not had a map id say that is your issue. car probably confused with new parts and cutting power etc

 

[leon cupra r]

You're pulling good air flow there, boost requests look very high and looks like your turbo is on the verge of struggling to hit the requests as they are so high. Log block 118 to see N75 duty to check.

Fuelling is lean - still running standard 1.8T fuelling requests - they are programmed to run lean from factory to hit emissions / economy targets.... when remapped this should be richened out to 0.8xx under load to keep things a bit cooler for longer. The reason it drops to 0.6 suddenly will be EGT protection - block 112 will confirm, when EGT hits 920 deg it will run very rich (fuel dump) to cool temps down.

Your issue looks to be timing - you are running very retarded so engine won't be making use of the air/fuel its getting... As far as I know you should be more in the region of 15-18 degrees BTDC... Log block 020 to see whether timing correction is retarding further still....

Have a read of this for more info

http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?2363607

 

[285cupra-matty]

Im having the exact same problem at the moment mate. Im not quite sure what's causing it I have done same as you log after log after log. But never really getting to the bottom of it. Bill from b5 has been very helpful. I am going to check oil pressure at the weekend as my vvt is now pinging a code maybe related as the vvt has control over the inlet cam timing hence the wrong retard showing on the logs. My thread is about somewhere " rolling road disappointment" have a read through so of bills replies see if you can use any if that.

Hope this helps mate.

 

[Mark27LCR]

Thanks for the replies guys i will log the blocks you suggested tomorrow and post up, maybe when Jabbasport had it, as it was completely standard they might have left the fueling standard?? How they got those figures from it though i have no idea.

i know the EBC they installed controls the N75 duty cycle but i usually have it all the way up anyway.

as for the vvt i've never had any codes for that the only one i get is catalyst because of the de-cat, how do you know if the vvt is playing up are there any blocks to check that?

Maybe it does just need re-mapping.. but i want to be sure because when i spoke to ****** (there the closest to me in birmingham) to do a stage 2 live map they need the car for a few days due it to already being mapped and running low power and if any issues are found it maybe longer. I use the car daily so i'd like to get to get in done in as little time as possible.

 

[Mark27LCR]

The rolling Print outs i have..

Original Jabbasport Serial port map in 2005

Latest Rolling road after upgrades

http://imageupload.co.uk/files/dmi2e9d1tnxcyrwli5ux.jpg

 

[vroomtshh]

It doesn't just need mapped.
Something is broken

 

[Mark27LCR]

I kinda hoped someone wouldn't say that but I don't know where to look because it pulls well, no smoke, no codes...

I'll do some more logs as suggested above.. should I do them in specific way or just one log with 020, 112 & 118

 

[Mark27LCR]

Tbh i took it to a garage last year for a head gasket, did the metal water pump and cam belt at the same time...if say the belt was off by one notch or the vvt system wasn't right would this be obvious.. or is that a possibilty with regards to the timing being off in the logs?

 

[Hobbiniho]

surely if the crank was out by a tooth you would get an error code for cam sensor and crank sensor not being in sync

 

[will.i.am]

had same sort of problem in power loss but since getting another turbo from midland turbo's from 270bhp down to 215bhp. actuator was set up wrong by 8 turns this got it boosting correctly to 24psi but dropped to 14psi at high revs. havent had much feedback but the re-mapper I go to said its either boost leak or actuator spring. also as you have a forge 008 do you have the correct spring in that?

 

[Mark27LCR]

Well possibility the acutuator was moved when the head was done i guess?

yellow spring in the dv i have a blue and green one too hand and some shims, sure it was yellow i was supposed to use..

just another thing i read up the vwvortex link at the top and then remembered i had some old logs before the head was done last year and it has some quite high CF readings on that is it possible that while this was happening some damage was caused?? what happens when the engine knocks, is this when rods/valves bend etc?

again can it go unnoticed if it's only slight? or should this be quite obvious?

Here is the log i found from last year doing a run

and more worryingly i think on the same day ad only half load

Could this have caused some serious issues that have yet to be rectified?

Starting to think i shouldn't be driving it everyday now...

again appreciate the help on this one

 

[Mark27LCR]

Just realised Will.I.AM ^^ pretty sure you bought my old Cupra R exhaust, if you have the same ebay name lol small world..

 

[will.i.am]

looking at your location it could well be HAHA small world and yes my ebay name will.i.am_1987

Im no good at reading data logs. hope its nothing serious though

 

[Mark27LCR]

Yea mate was me i'm compute******nix lol, is yours still running low power then?

Just looked back over the last logs i posted above, the G/s was low so i probably did a run with the boost turned down which may explain some of the High CF values as this one in the same logfile from last year, has a higher mass flow read out and hardly any CF values. But again i don't know what any of this means..

 

[leon cupra r]

had same sort of problem in power loss but since getting another turbo from midland turbo's from 270bhp down to 215bhp. actuator was set up wrong by 8 turns this got it boosting correctly to 24psi but dropped to 14psi at high revs. havent had much feedback but the re-mapper I go to said its either boost leak or actuator spring. also as you have a forge 008 do you have the correct spring in that?

It's nothing to do with boost/actuator/dv springs. His car is producing plenty enough boost.

Well possibility the acutuator was moved when the head was done i guess?

yellow spring in the dv i have a blue and green one too hand and some shims, sure it was yellow i was supposed to use..

just another thing i read up the vwvortex link at the top and then remembered i had some old logs before the head was done last year and it has some quite high CF readings on that is it possible that while this was happening some damage was caused?? what happens when the engine knocks, is this when rods/valves bend etc?

again can it go unnoticed if it's only slight? or should this be quite obvious?

Here is the log i found from last year doing a run

and more worryingly i think on the same day ad only half load

Could this have caused some serious issues that have yet to be rectified?

Starting to think i shouldn't be driving it everyday now...

again appreciate the help on this one

The CFs on your second run are crazy high... I thought the most our ECUs could dial out was 12 degrees, but by the looks of your logs its 15... it certainly looks like thats the max as there are so many readings at bang on 15....

The weird part is that log is only at 2.5k rpm.... pulling 165g/s at those revs?? By normal calculations thats roughly 206bhp...?? IF those readings are correct... 206/2440 * 5252 = 443lb/ft?? Something's reading wrong here.

The part you have highlighted looks like you're pulling off in 1st gear then straight into second going by the revs and time stamps.... To be honest, although your timing corrections definitely don't look normal, the log isn't of much use as the time spent on the throttle (dont even know if its WOT) is so small and your revs are so low.

 

[Mark27LCR]

To leon Cupra R, those logs were from last year before the head gasket was corrected.

I was really just messing with the logs looking for misfire counts this was the only one I had from last year that had CF readings so I thought it might be useful to mentio but anyhow I've done some more today

The EGT defiantly two high as suggested

and don't know what the n75 should be at?

since reading the other thread as suggested "rolling road disappointment" I think I should take the sump off check the pickup pipe etc and possibility my VVT tensioner is worn as it does make a weird "belt-like" noise for about 2 mins on warm up most mornings...

Would retarded timing due to high CF's or the VVT system cause the fueling to be standard or is that part of my problem down to software?

 

[leon cupra r]

Fuelling requests are remap related - there are a lot of remaps out there running standard fuelling - rumour is that in Germany emissions laws state you can't mess with fuelling, so they can only increase boost + timing, in the hope that EGT protection will stop engine completely cooking itself. This means temps increase very very quickly, which I imagine isn't healthy and increases heat stress.

Boost + N75 are fine I'd say. I think N75 maxes at about 95% so you're not quite maxxed out yet, although I think you mentioned you had a MBC - I have no experience with these, I'm not sure whether that makes N75 readings irrelevant.

Your timing is better on that run, your first log is not much use as you don't have any blocks with RPM so no idea what engine speed this is at. You have also been logging for almost 5 mins so doesn't look like you've specifically done a WOT run in 3rd/4th, I imagine you were just driving normally then hunted through the logs for any fuel dumping... You need to do a proper run for comparisons sake.

Fuelling requests get very very rich when your EGTs rocket sky high but I suspect you let off the throttle before it had chance to try and hit the target - again this is where RPM is needed... Looking back at your first run though to check if targets are hit, it looks like your fuel pump might be struggling. If your fuelling was richer across the board and there wasn't as much need for fuel dumping you would be a lot safer - as it stands you're getting very hot very quickly (running huge boost and retarded timing is a recipe for high EGTs) and EGT protection is absolutely vital to stop your engine melting. If your fuel pump can't get enough fuel in there to hit the AFR needed to cool stuff down........

Log 003 with 112 and 031 to see proper fuelling and EGT - this will need to be in 4th gear to get enough samples logging three blocks at a time. I'd also advise you have a passenger to keep an eye on EGT temps while you do this being that you are strugging to get rich enough to keep cool.

 

[Mark27LCR]

Hi in regards to the n75 it's an electronic boost control wired into ecu I think when I asked Jabba about this they said it adjusts the duty cycle, it was set to max earlier does this mean it might need replacing as it's not meeting 95%

In regards to the runs/logs i'm doing I was driving to work and did a 3rd gear run on a dual carriageway I go down every day, EGT would have been kicking in between 4500 and 6500 rpm on a third gear run full throttle till redline and fuel cut.

and this lack of fuel, is it to with the just the pump or the FPR too,, looking back through the history of the car none of these nor sensors have been changed since new, so 10years worth of abuse??

 

[leon cupra r]

No you don't want to replace it, absolute last thing you need now is more boost!!!!

I imagine its the pump they are the bits that get tired later on in life.

Do the run I suggested in last post and also a run of 003-020-118 to see timing with corrections now.

"EGT would have been kicking in between 4500 and 6500 rpm" - how do you know??