Missing Power!! please help :)

[Mark27LCR]

ok thanks for your help I will do tonight, erm I usually only do 3rd as the speed necessary in 4th is risky i'll have to find a better stretch of road lol.

my guess between 4500-6500 after the run I pulled into the next layby to change the blocks and run again so where the temps got high that was the only time it would have been at 100% throttle for like 10 seconds.. that and the very first post I put up has similar figures between those rev ranges, they are assumptions though and I will log again as you suggest.

Thanks again.

 

[leon cupra r]

You need to do it in 4th when logging three blocks really, as the sample rate is lower when logging 3 instead of two.

Thats what I was trying to say - its only a guess as to what revs it was when it's not written in the logs. Better with it in black and white

 

[Mark27LCR]

Okay so first run 4th gear 003-112-031

and 2nd run same road 003-020-118 4th gear again

however boost pipe blew off just before redline and I got the following codes.

 

[leon cupra r]

To be honest I don't think they look too bad, apart from the retarded timing and fuelling... Again it looks like you can't get the extra fuel in there to run rich enough for lambda requests when fuel dumping... You can calculate your IDC using block 002 and this calculator http://www.stealth316.com/2-calc-idc.htm

If its over 100% your ECU is wanting more fuel than they are capable of providing - this is likely a tired fuel pump but some stage 2+ 1.8Ts require larger injectors to be able to flow enough fuel.

Your timing pull low down the rev range would suggest to me that you might be trying to run a bit too much boost than your engine is happy with - normally timing corrections will start to increase over higher revs as heat builds up in the cylinders and starts to induce knock. Can you turn down your MBC a touch and re-run this log? I'm wondering if this is why your base timing is so low, as this also looks to be worst around the areas where your timing pull sets in and your boost is highest...

I'm no expert on ign timing, trying to work out why mine looks a bit retarded (not quite as bad as yours)... The ideas I've seen so far are:

Temperature - High intake temps / high cylinder temps / Exhaust restrictions causing pressure/heat build up
AFR - richer is better for putting off knock
Oil vapour - Reduces octane of fuel. I've recently done PCV delete + catch can, just need to take intercoolers off to see if they are half full of oil too.
Poor quality / low octane fuel

I'm running out of how much help I can be, you might be better giving Bill a shout to have a look at this thread?

 

[leon cupra r]

Also your intake temps look high, can't remember what weather was like on Thursday but by half 9 I imagine it was cooling down some...

For comparison I've just had a look at a log of mine from 6th of August at 21:41,

Tuesday	6	August	2013	21:41:40								
1ML 906 032		1.8l R4/5VT      01 0001										
												
	Group A:	'118				Group B:	'031				Group C:	Not Running
		RPM	Temperature	Load	Absolute Pres.		Lambda Factor	Lambda Factor	Bin. Bits	Bin. Bits		
	TIME					TIME					TIME	
MARKER	STAMP	/min	°C	%	mbar	STAMP					STAMP	
	0.31	1720	24	95.3	1150	0	0.93	0.93				
	0.92	1920	23	95.3	1210	0.61	0.93	0.922				
	1.52	2160	22	95.3	1300	1.21	0.922	0.914				
	2.12	2400	21	95.3	1470	1.81	0.899	0.906				
	2.73	2720	21	95.3	1700	2.43	0.899	0.899				
	3.33	3040	21	89.4	2110	3.03	0.906	0.891				
	3.93	3440	21	80.4	2310	3.63	0.899	0.883				
	4.54	3800	21	83.5	2250	4.24	0.867	0.875				
	5.14	4160	21	83.1	2230	4.84	0.875	0.867				
	5.74	4560	21	83.5	2160	5.44	0.86	0.86				
	6.35	4920	21	82.7	2160	6.04	0.844	0.852				
	6.95	5240	23	85.1	2100	6.65	0.828	0.844				
	7.55	5560	24	83.1	2120	7.26	0.852	0.844				
	8.16	5840	24	84.3	2040	7.86	0.852	0.844				
	8.76	6080	26	81.2	2080	8.46	0.844	0.844				
	9.37	6320	27	82	1990	9.07	0.86	0.844				
	9.97	6520	28	82	1950	9.67	0.836	0.844				
	10.58	6680	30	76.9	1910	10.28	0.821	0.844				
	11.17	6680	30	0	1400	10.88	0.821	0.875

The combination of my richer fuelling and the fact I'm running a bit less boost than you will go some way towards the lower intake temps, but not sure exactly how much of the difference can be put down to this...

 

[Mark27LCR]

I ran the log earlier again with the boost set lower, cleared codes and also ran the TB adaption again drove for 5 mins first before started the log, 4th gear run. 23'C outside temperature. also there are signs of oil in the intercooler pipes when I put the pipe back on they were clean were I put them on about a month ago.

So I might have a few of the symptoms you suggest above about high IAT's, Oil vapour and the low AFR. The Fuel on all these recent runs has been optimax 98.

I didn't manage to get another run with 002 logged to check the Inj on time but I have a previous run 2 weeks ago with it on.

Is this the correct calculation?

I'm going to try and get the PCV delete and Catch can done ASAP Oil flush and pick up clean too, this weekend if I can source the parts locally, but If the pump's gone do you know what part number it is because I've seen a few variations in price when looking?

Seriously appreciate your time on this one mate, I know I need to get mapped anyway to sort the fuelling but just want avoid hours in labour charges trying to find the problems if I can in the mean time think i'll leave the boost down and lay off the runs cause I think i'm hurting her and fuel goes really quickly when doing these logs lol.

 

[ibizacupra]

Okay so first run 4th gear 003-112-031

Why does this log show standard fueling despite higher boost??
not good at all

lean

 

[leon cupra r]

That latest run looks much better - does it actually feel much slower? It's still pulling good air flow and timing looks much more regular now, I would imagine it doesn't feel an awful lot slower?

Your intake temps look better - the run was done much earlier and at 23 degrees ambient they're never going to be anything special!

Yes I believe your IDC calc is correct - they are indeed maxed out - can't be on more than 100%, hence the fuel request is 0.704 lambda but you can only hit 0.75.. As I suspected this is probably why you aren't hitting the fuel dumping targets.


This can spell bad news - if your engine is running lean up to the point it hits 920 EGT, then it's only way of cooling down is fuel dumping to run rich, but your injectors are maxed out and can't richen the mixture any more.... you do the maths.

No idea what fuel pump part number is mate sorry.

Why does this log show standard fueling despite higher boost??
not good at all

lean

Bill you know exactly the reason why!!

 

[leon cupra r]

Bill have you read through this thread? Is my advice about right?

 

[ibizacupra]

Bill you know exactly the reason why!!

oh the siggy mapper is the map in it?
explained...
and EAK!

Shocking..

edit: is this the one I Fixed for you?

 

[ibizacupra]

Bill have you read through this thread? Is my advice about right?

yes..
only read the last bit mind you

 

[Mark27LCR]

It did seem to take forever to pull through 4th with it turned down I've only moved it a little bit but was testing the measurement of actual boost to limit it to 1.3bar instead of 1.5bar.

i'm going to look into the fuel pump issue if that's what it is. and the PCV system before getting the mapping done.

Bill if you don't mind I've heard your the man to see, if I get the pump and pcv/catch can sorted first could you pm me an estimate of time and cash to re-map? your about an hour and a half from me in Birmingham, but if there's no hardware at fault can it be done a day?

 

[leon cupra r]

oh the siggy mapper is the map in it?
explained...
and EAK!

Shocking..

edit: is this the one I Fixed for you?

The log I posted is from my car that you fixed for me, apparently the OP's car is on a Jabbasport map, but looks like same **** different map lol.

 

[leon cupra r]

It did seem to take forever to pull through 4th with it turned down I've only moved it a little bit but was testing the measurement of actual boost to limit it to 1.3bar instead of 1.5bar.

i'm going to look into the fuel pump issue if that's what it is. and the PCV system before getting the mapping done.

Bill if you don't mind I've heard your the man to see, if I get the pump and pcv/catch can sorted first could you pm me an estimate of time and cash to re-map? your about an hour and a half from me in Birmingham, but if there's no hardware at fault can it be done a day?

If that was on the same road (same incline + wind more specifically) then the 'taking forever' part is all in your head I reckon - if you look at the time stamp vs RPM for the two runs.. well as close matched as you can get anyway (100rpm difference)

131.49 - 117.6 = 13.89 seconds with boost up from 3520 - 6520rpm
251.42 - 240.26 = 11.16 seconds with boost turned down from 3640 to 6520 rpm

Being that these runs are both in the same gear, the vehicle speeds will be the same on both runs... It actually looks slightly quicker now you've turned boost down a touch! Obviously the second run has 100rpm head start and if there was a head/tail wind it will have an impact, so take these readings with a slight pinch of salt, but I'd definitely not say it is slower now...

 

[Mark27LCR]

it probably is as was the same road just doesn't have the same kick low down, and I think I started earlier too yes,

so is my timing still retarded in the last run? and is timing rectified with mapping as the fuel requests would be?

 

[leon cupra r]

it probably is as was the same road just doesn't have the same kick low down, and I think I started earlier too yes,

so is my timing still retarded in the last run? and is timing rectified with mapping as the fuel requests would be?

Yes low down kick might not feel as strong as it was, but it should be more reliable power right through the revs - lower boost means lower temps means less likely to hit fuel dump. Running 0.7lambda for fuel dumping is very rich and will be starting to rob you of power higher up. How you are now should drive more like a petrol should, instead of having loads of punch lower down and then running out of puff up top when fuel dumping is kicking in and timing is being retarded from being pushed too hard (driving like a diesel!!!!) The other benefit of having less punch low down is that you are going easier on your rods!

Timing looks much better in last run - no corrections which is good and base timing looks much more steady. If you're not needing any corrections in this hot weather with high intake temps I would say there is scope for advancing timing slightly. I'm not sure if your ECU will 'learn' that everything is running healthier and advance timing a bit over time or whether this will need mapping in (or bodging in with uni-settings )

Now just to get your fuelling sorted. You can get map adjusted for proper fuelling requests (Bill can do this) and then check whether you are capable of hitting requests or not... if not it's probably time to look at fuel pump.

 

[turboboy111]

The EGT defiantly two high as suggested

im no expert when it comes to logs e.t.c but check out the lambda reading on the last line.. 1.91 thats almost twice the correct reading?

 

[leon cupra r]

The EGT defiantly two high as suggested

im no expert when it comes to logs e.t.c but check out the lambda reading on the last line.. 1.91 thats almost twice the correct reading?

No throttle - ECU cuts fuel completely... put MPG reader on instantaneous and take foot off throttle when doing more than 1.5k revs it will read --.- - no fuel only air, 1.9x is leanest lambda sensor will read.

 

[Mark27LCR]

Hi just a quick update since doing the runs the other day i'm now continually getting the o2 sensor error,
17511 - Oxygen (Lambda) Sensor Heating; B1 S1: Performance too low
P1103 - 35-00

if the o2 sensor was about to fail anyway would this give me incorrect readings in regards to the fuel requested and actual? basically should I replace this sensor before buying a new pump?

also Leon Cupra R I looked at that uni settings program you mentioned, I don't want to adjust my timing however I seen that there are options to enrich the fuelling, have you had any experience with this, I'm not trying to re-map my own car as I understand these are just adaptions not mapping but is there a way I can adjust these settings so my car requests more fuel on WOT??

1. to make it safer until I can get down to Bill.
2. so I can further test the fuel pump.

 

[leon cupra r]

Hi just a quick update since doing the runs the other day i'm now continually getting the o2 sensor error,
17511 - Oxygen (Lambda) Sensor Heating; B1 S1: Performance too low
P1103 - 35-00

if the o2 sensor was about to fail anyway would this give me incorrect readings in regards to the fuel requested and actual? basically should I replace this sensor before buying a new pump?

also Leon Cupra R I looked at that uni settings program you mentioned, I don't want to adjust my timing however I seen that there are options to enrich the fuelling, have you had any experience with this, I'm not trying to re-map my own car as I understand these are just adaptions not mapping but is there a way I can adjust these settings so my car requests more fuel on WOT??

1. to make it safer until I can get down to Bill.
2. so I can further test the fuel pump.

Won't affect requested readings but might affect actual... Might be worth replacing before fuel pump yes.

Uni settings fuelling options are a red herring - you can't adjust requested fuelling, can't think how to explain it but basically it adjusts the 'in spec' values that are accepted as being ok.... e.g. if you were to put a 4bar FPR that would throw EML, you adjust the spec down with unisettings as a temp measure...

I had the same remap fuelling issues as you and also thought I'd be able to use unisettings as a bodge, but it's not that simple unfortunately