Mk1 1.6 S Crank Pulley 'fell' off

[bwtalbot]

To cut a long story short a mate forgot to tighten the bolt holding the crank pulley on when replacing the cam belt for me. ...It all fell off.

I was almost stationary when it happened (barely over 1000rpm), so he reckons it's not as bad as if it had gone at 40mph.

Now it is running very rough, and will only start without the air box fitted. Sometimes nothing happens when the accelerator pedal is pressed and you have to switch it off and start it up again without the air box on. My mate insists it's all timed up correctly.

It has a new cam belt, water pump, oil filter, and oil

Any one got any specific ideas?

I have a reasonable knowledge about cars but I'm not an expert.

 

[danblowes]

You have some bent valves in the head, you are going to have to pull the cylinder head off and replace them.
even at 1000rpm it will still bend at least 4 valves, and will give you all the symptoms that you have.

It may be timed up correctly but with bent vlaves you will get crap or no compression, misfires etc....

 

[Keithslippery]

As above.. No matter if its 40mph or 1000rpm, just one turn of the engine is enough to bend the valves.

 

[bwtalbot]

Thanks. That's what I thought.

Will the bent valves have damaged the head?

What am I gonna need to buy and how much is it likely to cost? I'm assuming I'll need to replace the head gasket, exhaust manifold gasket and valves. Will I need to replace all of the valves or just a few? Or am I not going to know until I've taken the head apart?

How difficult a job is it? Could I do it on my drive over a weekend? Will I need any specialist tools? If I take the head apart will it be obvious which valves and how to replace?

Is it easy to **** up, or do I need to make sure everything goes back together properly (i.e. everything is tightened back up properly)?

What are my options?

Thanks

 

[danblowes]

If it was at about 1000rpm it will more than likely just have bent the valves and nipped the pistons.

You will need a full head set ( head gasket, head bolts etc....) You won't know how many valves till it is apart.

Leave the inlet an exhaust manifolds on but, drop the downpipe off it and remove all the inlet trunking and fuel lines etc....

Its not a difficult job but if you aren't that experienced you could c*ck it up quite easily.

You could defo do it over a weekend and the specialised tools you will need are:

1, Torque wrench,

2, Torque angle gauge,

3, Valve lapping in stick and lapping paste,

4, Gasket scraper,

5, Valve spring compressor.

there prob is more but it isn't too bad a job too do, as long as you don't rush and do things methodically!

Good luck!!

 

[bwtalbot]

Do I absolutely HAVE to use all of those tools? I know what a torque wrench is and how to use it and could get hold of one. But the rest are new to me. Are they expensive to buy?

I'm weighing up my options at the moment between doing it myself, getting a garage to replace the valves or do an engine swap, or sell the car as is.

 

[danblowes]

You will need a torque angle gauge, a valve spring compressor ( you won't get the valves out otherwise) and you can always stick the valve in a drill on slow to lap it into the valve seat, but you will need lapping in paste.

Torque angle gauge is £9.10 http://shop.northwalestools.co.uk/laser-2611---torque-angle-gauge---12d-96431-p.asp

lapping paste is £4.14 http://www.agriemach.com/c34/tools-...ompound.html?gclid=CNXghuXBmLgCFdDJtAodeEEACg

Valve spring compressor is £16.95 http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/ENGINE-OVERHEAD-VALVE-SPRING-COMPRESSOR-TOOL-pincer-clamp-/271183168436

I just googled the stuff and these were pretty much the cheapest

 

[Keithslippery]

Your local car spares shop might hire you a valve spring compressor, mine does, I would change all the valves that way you know most of the head is good for a fair few miles, personally I have never just changed the ones damaged but replaced the full set.

 

[bwtalbot]

I priced it all up (parts and tools) at my local GSF and could do it for less then £150 so I reckon it's worth a punt

 

[bwtalbot]

Got the rocker cover off, realised (after of a bit of research) I need an m10 Ribe tool.

Also discovered that torque wrenches need to be periodically callibrated, so I think I'll buy my own rather than use my dad's which is probably older than me, never been calibrated, and therefore wildly inaccurate.

Ordering tools and see that there are different torque wrenches with different torque ranges, so I should probably find out the torque specs for the head bolts to make sure I order the correct one.

Does anyone know where I can find the torque settings?

Also, do I HAVE to use a gasket scraper, or could I just use a paint/wallpaper scraper, screw driver, and or stanley blade?

One more thing, any preference over 3/8" drive or 1/2" drive? would either be better? The tools that I have already are all 3/8".

 

[danblowes]

Just use a stanley blade as that always works well, and grab some 400 grit wet & dry to clean up the block face and the head face, 3/8" drive is fine for pretty much everything apart from when you torque the head up, when you will need 1/2" drive.

Torque settings are:

Stage 1... 40 nm

Stage 2.. 60 nm

Stage 3.... tighten a further 90 degrees..

Stage 4... Tighten a further 90 degrees...

 

[Nath.]

Think about a scrap yard cylinder head.There must be plenty of rear ended 1.6 Golfs about. If you get a good one it will just be a swap over with new gaskets.

 

[bwtalbot]

Took delivery of the tools and the head doesn't use Ribe head bolts. It uses bloody 12 spline torx head. Bugger! So much for my research.

Anyone know which size 12 spline torx it is?

 

[bwtalbot]

Turns out it was an M12 'triple square' or XZN tool.

Next problem, I'm not sure I have the correct valve spring compressor. I bought the one that danblowes recommended and it doesn't look like it fits. Does anyone know which one or type I need?

 

[bwtalbot]

Finally finished it, and it's (touch wood) running better than ever. Cost me about £280 in parts. Had to do it twice because I didn't realise the cylinder head was warped, so cost me 2 lots of head gaskets, head bolts, and oil and filters, and a skim. Was just 2 exhaust valves that bent, but an ignition coil died, and I broke the alternator.

I also ported the exhaust outlet to improve efficiency whilst I was down there too.

I'll post a whole separate thread about the whole job too so nobody makes the same mistakes as me. Thanks to everyone that helped me out.

You will need a torque angle gauge, a valve spring compressor ( you won't get the valves out otherwise) and you can always stick the valve in a drill on slow to lap it into the valve seat, but you will need lapping in paste.

Torque angle gauge is £9.10 http://shop.northwalestools.co.uk/laser-2611---torque-angle-gauge---12d-96431-p.asp

lapping paste is £4.14 http://www.agriemach.com/c34/tools-...ompound.html?gclid=CNXghuXBmLgCFdDJtAodeEEACg

Valve spring compressor is £16.95 http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/ENGINE-OVERHEAD-VALVE-SPRING-COMPRESSOR-TOOL-pincer-clamp-/271183168436

I just googled the stuff and these were pretty much the cheapest

The valve spring compressor you pointed me to didn't fit because the valves are recessed into the head. I needed this one http://www-1.toolbox.co.uk/sealey-vs153-valve-spring-compressor-00104278M.jpg

Just use a stanley blade as that always works well, and grab some 400 grit wet & dry to clean up the block face and the head face, 3/8" drive is fine for pretty much everything apart from when you torque the head up, when you will need 1/2" drive.

Torque settings are:

Stage 1... 40 nm

Stage 2.. 60 nm

Stage 3.... tighten a further 90 degrees..

Stage 4... Tighten a further 90 degrees...

I bought a haynes manual in the end (4169 vw golf and bora), and it turns out it the torque settings are 30Nm, then 90, and 90.

Thanks again to everyone that helped.

 

[bwtalbot]

FFS! The bolt on the cam belt tensioner sheared off... at 70mph! Now I've got do everything all over again AND get the end of the bolt out of the cylinder head. FUUUUUUUUUCCCCCCCKKKKKKK!!!!

 

[wakko]

Holy Sh*t mate, you're not having much luck At least you know how to do the job and have the right tools. I have my cylinder head to remove soon to replace a bent con rod.

 

[akchappers]

Would have nearly been cheaper to buy another leon way things are going! I bought a 1.6s in red on Sunday. 112,000 miles and 9 months mot. £650!
Ak

 

[danblowes]

FFS! The bolt on the cam belt tensioner sheared off... at 70mph! Now I've got do everything all over again AND get the end of the bolt out of the cylinder head. FUUUUUUUUUCCCCCCCKKKKKKK!!!!

Dude if you didn't have bad luck you would have no fooking luck by the sounds of it!!! Sorry to hear it has gone tits up again!

 

[James D1]

if you've had cambelt snap / come off at that speed repairing the engine is the worst idea. buy a donor engine or get a new car AND DONT LET YOUR MATE TIME IT UP HAHA.

at that speed all sorts of damage could have been done and repairing it will most likely cost 3/4 times more than getting a cheap donor lump