420bhp hybrid k04

[jon-tfsi]

Hmm Im deffinately interested to see the timing pull once the trial map expires then.

Is there a reason for yours doing this ? A fault? Because i would not consider that acceptable on a stock car in any way !!

SEAT have some very odd opinions on what is acceptable. My last Leon had a worn fuel pump cam follower and cam lobe and SEAT seemed to think this was in line with normal wear and tear even though it was a known weakness.
They also seemed to think burning 6 litres of oil in 10k was acceptable too !!
This was on an unmodified car.

These motors are capable of serious power levels from just bolt on's but are far from bullet proof and need a close eye kept on them from a maintenance point of view.

 

[Deleted member 53697]

after a few long chats with various people in the know, i'm not gonna be bothering with a hybrid K04... role on BT!

 

[Al]

Just my opinion, but if I was going big turbo on a 2.0T, I would want four wheel drive. Having seen first hand the power and torque a big turbo deals out (they are undoubtedly quick), I also saw how so much of it is wasted with wheelspin and experienced the smaller useful band of power/torque that is available vs the OEM K04 turbo.

My own (and others) experience in an S2+ car vs a GT2871R 2.0T is that the big turbo car is only quicker from approx 100mph onward which makes going BT completely pointless on the road. Add to that all the hassle, costs and issues you get from going BT, and it makes the OEM turbo so much more of a no brainer.

I would personally go with the Hybird over a Big Turbo if I had to make the choice, but for performance per £, you will not beat S2+ on the OEM turbo.

[/£0.02]

Edit: And if you dont believe me, look at JonnyC's 1/4 mile times and terminals on a K04 turbo and big turbo on the same car

 

[DanGB]

after a few long chats with various people in the know, i'm not gonna be bothering with a hybrid K04... role on BT!

And people in the know (myself) say dont bother with BT, get a 4WD or RWD and save yourself a load of unforseen issues.

 

[vRSy]

Jabba can do it for 1.5k.

It's all about the spool and response IMO, which slot of the BT kits don't do very well.

It's the way the oem turbo is integrated into the manifold which gives it such awesome low down response.

IMO a 400hp ko4 will whip the ass off a 480bhp big turbo 2.0tfsi

they haven't released a dyno prinout or any figures for it yet, and also his 1/4 times were slower than when he had stage 2+ on the std k04 turbo. last time he updated his thread(which was a fair while ago), they had issues with the DSG limiting the output,

 

[Poverty]

And people in the know (myself) say dont bother with BT, get a 4WD or RWD and save yourself a load of unforseen issues.

I would have to agree with that. Wanted more power from my k1 but no way in hell through the front wheels.

I also think bolting on turbos bigger than what dan has fitted is also counter productive. Have seen slot of supposedly mega powerful bt cars with massive turbos never actually live up to the figures that the owners/tuners say they have.

I just don't think big turbos work to well on what's relatively a small capacity engine.

 

[Invisible]

BT or hybrid for me it's really a case of useable power.

I'm building my stack of handling mods for my Cupra and i'm still not convinced, even when I add;

Mounts, WALK, ARB's, poly bushes, coilovers, maybe even TT lower control arms and expensive rubber that I will prevent wheel spin / loss of traction at stage 1 let alone stage 2+ or beyond!

For me it is all about useable power. Yes it is great to get more power from a Hybrid or BT but will you be able to see any significant useable power for what will be a large chunk of cash.

What I would actually like to see (and I know it would be very expensive) is a conversion of the Cupra to 4-wheel drive first and then slap a BT on. If I win the lottery I'll find a company willing to do this for me!

 

[Al]

What I would actually like to see (and I know it would be very expensive) is a conversion of the Cupra to 4-wheel drive first and then slap a BT on. If I win the lottery I'll find a company willing to do this for me!

It's already been done and it's known as the Audi S3

 

[Deleted member 53697]

And people in the know (myself) say dont bother with BT, get a 4WD or RWD and save yourself a load of unforseen issues.

Aren't you happy with your APR Stage 3?

 

[robdf2]

It's already been done and it's known as the Audi S3

i thought the S3 had fit problems when going BT?
seen before people grinding off lugs on the gearbox and manifolds to make it all fit?

 

[DanGB]

Aren't you happy with your APR Stage 3?

Ive got some issues with my setup which I think is APR's problem, but APR insist its my engine, so some things will not get solved basically.

With BT you are introducing a whole unknown into the engine and diagnosing problems becomes 100 times harder.

With BT more lag is an issue. it depends how you drive. The extra lag may annoy you most of the time if you not constantly putting your foot down, espeicallty if you go with a GT30 based turbo, if its not perfectly tuned.

What handling mods you do, it will barely improve how you put the power down. I have some of the best handling mods you can buy (including a diff), but still always have issues.

Dont kid yourself you will always put the power down. most of it the dry yes, but in the wet you can forget it.

power wise yes its immensely fast (for the short periods im driving at that speed - like on the track), but in terms of quarter mile races etc its has been shown its slower than a decent stage 2 + setup until over 100mph due to a combination of spool times and grip due to the amount of torque.

 

[Ben CTR]

Ive got some issues with my setup which I think is APR's problem, but APR insist its my engine, so some things will not get solved basically.

With BT you are introducing a whole unknown into the engine and diagnosing problems becomes 100 times harder.

With BT more lag is an issue. it depends how you drive. The extra lag may annoy you most of the time if you not constantly putting your foot down, espeicallty if you go with a GT30 based turbo, if its not perfectly tuned.

What handling mods you do, it will barely improve how you put the power down. I have some of the best handling mods you can buy (including a diff), but still always have issues.

Dont kid yourself you will always put the power down. most of it the dry yes, but in the wet you can forget it.

power wise yes its immensely fast (for the short periods im driving at that speed - like on the track), but in terms of quarter mile races etc its has been shown its slower than a decent stage 2 + setup until over 100mph due to a combination of spool times and grip due to the amount of torque.

A good honest conclusion that Dan, nicely put..

 

[Deleted member 53697]

Sorry to hear your problems regarding APR
I know, I appreciate there may very well be some problems with the car down the line. All I can do is make sure the BT is installed by a reputable tuning company and that it is maintained well. If I was seriously worried about warranty I would never have got into tuning cars. I am hoping that being sensible and looking after the car will be enough to make sure I don't have long term or BIG problems in the future (touch wood).
I'm not gonna do any handling mods till after the winter. With all the ice/salt/grit, I can't see the point of rushing to get it done until February time at the earliest. Plan is KW V3, H&R ARB's and WALK. I am undecided about uprated mounts as I don't want the car to completley loose some degree of ride comfort.
So what conclusion are we heading towards with this thread; Don't bother with hybrid or BT, stage 2+ is enough?

 

[DanGB]

What are you running now power wise?

 

[Deleted member 53697]

Revo stage 2 so whats that like 320bhp? Not had a dyno yet.

 

[RobH]

Id be tempted to put a hybrid in an s3 or golf R but other than that stage 2+ is enough. BT is not something that appeals to me.

 

[vRSy]

Sorry to hear your problems regarding APR

So what conclusion are we heading towards with this thread; Don't bother with hybrid or BT, stage 2+ is enough?

Overall Leader Board

1 ). 12.601 @ 115.85 - DSG - OEM K04 - REVO S2+ - TRACK TYRE - MK5 ED30 - JonnyC
2 ). 12.701 @ 114.58 - MAN - GT3071R - REVO S3 - ROAD TYRE - AUDI S3 - Andy Oram
3 ). 12.733 @ 107.70 - MAN - OEM K04 - REVO S2+ - ROAD TYRE - AUDI S3 - David_Phillips95
4 ). 12.790 @ 111.67 - DSG - OEM K04 - JABBASPORT CUSTOM - TRACK TYRE - MK5 ED30 - JABBALAD
5 ). 12.904 @ 110.90 - DSG - OEM K04 - REVO S2+ - TRACK TYRE - MK5 ED30 - Hurdy
6 ). 12.911 @ 119.21 - DSG - GT3076R - REVO S4 - TRACK TYRE - MK5 ED30 - JonnyC
7 ). 12.920 @ 112.80 - MAN - OEM K04 - GIAC EXTREME PLUS - ROAD TYRE - LEON CUPRA - Owen
8 ). 12.950 @ 115.10 - MAN - OEM K04 - REVO S2+ - ROAD TYRE - LEON CUPRA - Djhorace
9 ). 12.989 @ 113.24 - DSG - OEM K04 - REVO S3 - TRACK TYRE - AUDI TT - Revo TT


10). 13.040 @ 112.20 - DSG - OEM K04 - REVO S2+ - ROAD TYRE - MK5 ED30 - GTIjames
11). 13.165 @ ???.??? - MAN - GT2871R - GIAC RSR - TRACK TYRE - MK5 GTI - Regal Autosport
12). 13.177 @ 109.15 - DSG - OEM K04 - REVO S2 - ROAD TYRE - MK5 ED30 - VtecAbuser
13). 13.284 @ ???.??? - DSG - OEM K04 - REVO S1 - ROAD TYRE - AUDI S3 - T88OMM
14). 13.401 @ 110.62 - DSG - OEM K04 - REVO S2 - ROAD TYRE - MK5 ED30 - NB07
15). 13.402 @ ???.??? - MAN - OEM K04 - REVO S2+ - ROAD TYRE - CUPRA K1 - Revo K1
16). 13.598 @ 101.00 - MAN - OEM K04 - REVO S1 - ROAD TYRE - CUPRA K1 - cuprak1
17). 13.650 @ ???.??? - DSG - OEM K04 - REVO S2+ - ROAD TYRE - MK5 ED30 - NeilM
18). 13.680 @ ???.??? - MAN - OEM K04 - REVO S2+ - ROAD TYRE - AUDI S3 - S3Dan
19). 13.742 @ 103.55 - MAN - OEM K04 - REVO S1 - ROAD TYRE - AUDI S3 - KRL
20). 13.850 @ ???.??? - MAN - OEM K04 - REVO S1 - ROAD TYRE - AUDI S3 - LEON
21). 13.850 @ 107.17 - DSG - OEM K04 - REVO S2+ - ROAD TYRE - MK5 ED30 - DomT
22). 13.853 @ 104.97 - DSG - OEM K04 - BLUEF S2 - ROAD TYRE - MK5 ED30 - Aparoon

Consider these 1/4 mile times. For instance JonnyC's Ed30 was faster at stage2+ than with a GT30 big turbo. then consider the other big turbos are lower down the pecking order ie regals Gt28 was only quicker than the stage 1 and 2 cars but not the stage 2+ cars

 

[Al]

Revo stage 2 so whats that like 320bhp? Not had a dyno yet.

Mine made 354bhp on Stage 2 with selected bolt ons

 

[Al]

Consider these 1/4 mile times. For instance JonnyC's Ed30 was faster at stage2+ than with a GT30 big turbo. then consider the other big turbos are lower down the pecking order ie regals Gt28 was only quicker than the stage 1 and 2 cars but not the stage 2+ cars

Yeah thats the point I mean above Sy. The big turbo car has a higher top speed, but overall, is slower in a straight line.

Also note how Owen got down the 1/4 mile 0.03 seconds quicker than me despite my car having an approx 2.5mph higher top speed, probably down to him having a WOT box and getting through the gears quicker as well as less weight.

Cars are faster with gadgets and less weight than more power in the case of the 2.0T it seems.

 

[Damoegan]

Dan, did Awsome map your car? Will they not swop you to REVO FOC?