Robbie C's Ibiza Cupra

[ibizacupra]

none of us know this tho, its educated guesswork from what the plots say from then and now.

my guess is whatever figures you get off my dyno, will most likely be read as higher on some other dynos. We know this is a huge variance.. You wont likely be dissapointed elsewhere tho is the upside.

 

[PhilW]

Personally, i would think this is a one off knowing how thorough Craig is normally on his dyno sessions, and i think Bill would back me up with his knowledge and info about the setup.

 

[Robbie C]

Agreed. No doubts about that whatsoever Phil, even from the one and only time I've met Craig I've every confidence in his abilities and was appreciative of the time spent setting up my car

 

[wild willy]

Great Car you have there Robbie, The power you have there is an honest power level which is inexcess of all the stage 2 LCR's out there, coupled with the weight saving it must be a beast.

 

[Robbie C]

Cheers Willy - looking forward to exploiting it some more on track over the coming months

 

[ibizacupra]

Personally, i would think this is a one off knowing how thorough Craig is normally on his dyno sessions, and i think Bill would back me up with his knowledge and info about the setup.

totally agreed Phil. Craig is top notch and detailed and very knowledgable on these rollers without question. Neither of us can think why there's a shift in figures since the move, assuming all other software parameters are the same.

Std test vehicles have produced std numbers within the scope of measurement scatter.

The Feb run report does say test gear 5th, but the final drive it reported was that for 4th is all I can confirm... That and the large temp difference between the days 8'C vs 31'C is a significant difference after all. No boost was logged in Feb so I cant compare that figure unwith my logs unfortunately.

His Mainline dyno will be an interesting and complex bit of kit.. It will be interesting to see how it goes, what numbers come off it etc, and I am sure we will both want to compare results to each other also.

 

[PhilW]

I think it was down to plain old human error bill. Simple as that. It would be good to get another car that has previously run at Craigs up to yours.

If you want me to find someone willing ill ask about as ive held a few RR days there now.

Yeah i spoke to him and it does sound a good but complicated piece of kit, cant wait to get my car down there for a couple of hours messing about and maybe ill drag a few "known" cars down to see what they pull.

 

[joehirth]

Must say I do find this thread amazing - really helps me out when I'm doing mine - no doubt Robbie I think you may find some things in my car that will reflect your knowledge .

Bill might just have to come to you for some mapping and roller beading soon....

 

[ASHL3Y]

wow. just read threw the majority of the thread & what a car!

nice bit of inspiration in here for my imperial cupra build

keep it up dude

Ash

 

[Robbie C]

Must say I do find this thread amazing - really helps me out when I'm doing mine - no doubt Robbie I think you may find some things in my car that will reflect your knowledge .

Bill might just have to come to you for some mapping and roller beading soon....

lol, thanks Joe. I remember how difficult it was getting accurate information when building mine so glad it can be of some help to others doing similar work.

wow. just read threw the majority of the thread & what a car!

nice bit of inspiration in here for my imperial cupra build

keep it up dude

Ash

Cheers Ash

 

[Robbie C]

Last night I headed into London for a bit of a random photoshoot under Waterloo station, along with a couple of friends from back home driving their P1 and Corsa B turbo:

 

[Robbie C]

 

[Robbie C]

While I'm cleaning up my first post here's some older pics of mine before the hybrid work was carried out:

 

[George 3G]

Great photos mate! Out of interest what camera was used?

How does the Ibiza compare to the other cars? That arden blue Corsa B looks nice!

 

[Robbie C]

Thanks, yeah they've come out really well

I'm not sure on the camera specs as they were taken by a friend of a friend, but he does this professionally. All pics can be found here

The P1 is believed to be running somewhere in the region of 400 BHP and 365 lb/ft and the Corsa C20 LET turbo is running somewhere in the 260s for both power and torque - on just ~15-18 PSI running the standard turbo (GSi)

The P1 comes onto boost at around 4,500-5,000 RPM so I can easily out-spool that at lower RPMs but once we're both in the power bands he'll effortlessly pull a few cars lengthes towards the top end with a much stronger power delivery. We were playing around last night on the way home and both pulling away in 5th at 50 MPH I'm gone - but it's a different story at 80-90

The Corsa has the weight advantage and pulls very well. He's still in the process of getting it fine-tuned as after a couple of dyno sessions with Bill it's now clear the exhaust is a massive restriction and it may even need larger injectors to get the most of this current setup - though he's planning to go BT next year. When he was peaking at 15 PSI I could pull on it without too much trouble but the latest tweaking by Bill has transformed the car and it's only towards the top end I pull it back in. They all go well and make for big smiles

 

[joehirth]

Man you should of said you were going to Leak street loads of us lot from round Guildford area go there quite a lot. Won't be going again soon will you?

 

[IbizaAlex]

Great pics Rob. I miss mine!

 

[GotBoost]

So... on Sunday I headed over to Badger5 to spend some time on the dyno, making sure everything was running OK and optimising my fuelling, which also gave a chance to compare my previous rolling road results on the same dyno when it was owned by Craig at GotBoost. The results were "interesting" to say the least.

Previously the car made 296.9 BHP and 344.4 lb/ft with 8 Deg C ambient temps.

After 5-6 runs on the same dyno since Bill has calibrated it as he sees fit I saw very different, but consistently repeatable results with a best run of 273 BHP and 282 lb/ft with ambient temps of 31 Deg C.

Peak airflow was down to 215 g/s from 227 g/s which accounts for an approximate drop of 284 BHP down to 269 BHP - probably accountable from much warmer, less dense air being sucked past the MAF.

Peak boost of 24 PSI is still being met, with 6 degrees of ignition advance thanks to WMI which kept IATs in the 20s run after run.

Obviously a huge difference in ambient temps is going to account for some discrepancy between these results, though it's the curves themselves that paint a very different picture when compared side-by-side. My initial run at GotBoost is shown in red below, vs my latest runs at Badger5:

Notice how the power appears to come in much lower in the rev range compared to my latest runs, which just doesn't make sense... even running the car on different ramp rates we weren't able to emulate these characteristics. Wheel spin would appear to be the only real plausible explanation here, which we saw none of on Sundays runs.

So, all a bit strange, though these latest figures would appear more credible than the last so perhaps not quite the torque monster I'd been led to believe!

Initially this was a bit depressing to watch on the dyno, but not forgetting that the car isn't actually down on any power and happily educates M3s, RS4s and a fair proportion of Porsches then it doesn't actually change anything, other than perception.

For a hybrid like mine that's running all the bells and whistles I'm intrigued as to what "real" figures others will see on this particular dyno, time will tell

This aside, the map itself seemed pretty much bang on with a nice smooth power curve and the car is running really well, with some minor fuel trimming adjustments made to help even things out.

Next up may be Castle Combe for an open track day in early October, unless I opt for a session on the Action day, we'll see

There is a difference in test gear and/or ramp rate, there is no other explanation for the dramatic change in how the car builds boost ( TQ ). TQ will read differently if ran in a different test gear and/or ramp rate, but the peak FLY BHP figures should remain fairly consistant regardless. All dynos operate like this, despite what the manufacturers will tell you.

The ambient temp change and the lower actual air density ( read higher intake temp ) will account for the loss of BHP. Since you are using WMI the temps logged from the intake air temp sensor may not give a true representation of the actual air temp. When Bill upgrades his cooling fan system return for another test, and i bet your MAF readings will return to the higher value

BTW, my rough calculations for the 1.8T Golf engines, on this dyno, with correctly set ignition and fuelling, would be (MAF g/s*1.3 = fly bhp), plug your maf readings before and after into that formula and you will see that it is clear the air mass has changed and this ties into the loss of power noticed.

Hope this helps.....

 

[ibizacupra]

1.2/1.25 factor is what correlates currently on the dyno as a guide - its a good approximation.

Sadly me gettign bigger fans wont make the ambient cooler.. much as I wish they could.. 31'c ambient by the dyno.. and I am sweating buckets - lol
logged ait's are wmi enhanced for sure, incoming air density the other weekend at 31'c wont have been the same as the feb 8'c day fo sho

8'c back in feb plays 31'c the other week is a significant change for the worse (power wise) - absolutely agree

 

[Robbie C]

Thanks for the input Craig Totally agree with everyone's comments above.

Unfortunately I didn't get MAF logs back in January but 215 g/s was seen at Bill's, which roughly translates to 258-269 BHP, pretty consistent with what the runs showed. When mapped in November with ambient temperatures much lower we saw peak figures of 227 (~272-284 BHP)

I'll be tempted to get another run in the Winter to compare for contrast.

Great pics Rob. I miss mine!

Cheers Alex, bring back memories?