Lean Running 1.8T problems. Vagcom Logs attached *** PROBLEM SOLVED ***

[Cupra Ross]

Hi Guys,

I've recently picked up a Bora 1.8T Sport with full Milltek (downpipe and cat recently replaced under warranty), Carbonio and APR Stage 2 software. It has the AUM engine which as you will know is exactly the same as the AUQ apart from the factory ECU mapping. Same turbo, DBW, VVT etc.

I've been doing some logs as I'm not happy with the car's performance. I have just replaced the MAF with a genuine Bosch item and there doesn't appear to be any boost leaks on the car, its making specified boost without a problem.

I'm only managing about 150g/s over the MAF which equates to about 185bhp, I'd be expecting a minimum of 220bhp with this configuration. Its running on V-Power/Tesco 99 and there is no timing pull whatsoever. CFs for all cylinders are 0.0 throughout the rev range.

The map is requesting 2130mbar of boost at at 2800rpm dropping to a ridiculously low 1370mbar at 6250rpm. By stark contrast, my Jabba custom map on the same engine with the same mods in the Leon was peaking at a requested 2200mbar @ 3200rpm and was still requesting and getting 1940mbar @ 6500rpm.

I'll post both logs for comparison. Each log is done in 3rd gear on the same piece of road:

Jabba Custom:

Thursday	9	April	2009	15:30:54									
06A 906 032 HN 		1.8L R4/5VT         0002											
													
	Group A:	'002				Group B:	'115				Group C:	 Not Running	
		Idle speed	Engine load	Inj. period	Air mass in		Engine Speed	Engine Load	Spec. Boost	Actual Boost			
	TIME	700-820 rpm	15-25%	2.0 - 4.0 ms	2.0-4.5 g/s	TIME	700-6800 RPM	15-150%	990-1800 mbar	<=1800 mbar	TIME		
MARKER	STAMP	 /min	%	 ms	 g/s	STAMP	 /min	%	 mbar	 mbar	STAMP		
	0.56	1840	20.3	2.04	6.25	0.01	1840	12.8	980	990			
	1.57	1800	27.8	2.38	8.58	1.05	1800	23.3	980	990			
	2.57	1840	35.3	3.06	11.06	2.06	1800	33.8	980	990			
	3.58	1840	33.1	3.06	9.75	3.09	1840	34.6	980	1000			
	4.59	1840	38.3	3.74	12.89	4.08	1840	35.3	980	990			
	5.58	1880	44.4	4.42	14.64	5.09	1880	44.4	980	1000			
	6.78	1920	44.4	4.42	15.19	6.16	1920	44.4	980	1010			
	7.8	1960	48.1	4.76	17.69	7.29	1960	42.9	980	1020			
	8.81	2040	49.6	4.76	18.36	8.3	2000	50.4	980	1030			
	9.81	2080	48.1	4.76	18.33	9.3	2080	47.4	980	1040			
	10.81	1680	12.8	1.36	2.75	10.32	2080	27.1	980	1050			
	11.83	2760	66.9	7.14	38.64	11.32	2880	47.4	980	990			
	12.84	3080	140.6	15.98	104.14	12.33	2880	95.5	1470	1330			
	13.95	3760	166.2	19.38	129.19	13.43	3400	170.7	2180	2310			
	14.95	4320	165.4	20.4	150.22	14.45	4040	165.4	2200	2140			
	15.96	4840	163.9	19.72	161.19	15.44	4560	164.7	2130	2140			
	16.95	5080	39.8	3.4	3.31	16.45	5080	170.7	2060	2050			
	17.96	4960	11.3	0	8.22	17.46	5040	11.3	980	1120			
	18.97	4800	12	0	8.92	18.47	4880	12	980	1040			
	20.05	4600	11.3	1.7	9	19.49	4680	12	980	1030			
	21.19	4560	55.6	5.78	52.19	20.65	4600	28.6	980	1020			
	22.2	4560	34.6	3.74	28	21.69	4560	48.9	980	1230			
	23.19	4520	34.6	3.74	30.17	22.69	4520	36.1	980	1110			
	24.2	4480	34.6	3.74	29.83	23.69	4480	34.6	980	1130			
	25.21	4480	31.6	3.4	26.83	24.69	4480	34.6	980	1130			
	26.22	4440	33.1	3.74	28.83	25.71	4440	31.6	980	1100			
	27.31	4520	85.7	9.18	75.67	26.73	4440	51.9	980	1180			
	28.36	4720	82.7	8.84	75.03	27.85	4640	85	1170	1390			
	29.42	4840	37.6	3.74	28.33	28.93	4800	68.4	980	1330			
	30.45	4800	36.1	3.74	33.08	29.94	4800	38.3	980	1170			
	31.43	4760	25.6	2.72	20.11	30.94	4800	30.1	980	1160			
	32.44	4760	85	10.88	96.42	31.94	4720	19.5	980	1040			
	33.45	5200	175.2	22.1	172.28	32.94	4960	184.2	2090	2200			
	34.62	5680	169.2	20.74	181.69	34.03	5440	169.9	2050	2020			
	35.67	4360	12	0	6.53	35.15	5000	10.5	980	1170			
	36.66	4200	12	0	7.31	36.16	4280	12	980	1030			
	37.67	4040	12	0	8.5	37.16	4120	12	980	1010			
	38.67	3880	12	0	9.19	38.17	3960	12	980	1010			
	39.68	3720	12	0	9.14	39.19	3800	12	980	1020			
	40.75	3640	65.4	8.16	53.22	40.18	3680	12	980	1020			
	41.89	3680	36.1	3.74	23	41.38	3720	48.9	980	1240			
	42.91	3720	35.3	3.74	26.97	42.39	3680	18.8	980	1080			
	43.9	3680	48.1	5.1	34.64	43.41	3680	36.1	980	1070			
	44.92	3720	24.8	2.38	13.47	44.42	3720	45.1	980	1190			
	45.92	3680	14.3	1.36	7.22	45.42	3680	18.8	980	1040			
	343.86	2480	99.2	11.56	53.61	343.31	2360	72.2	1010	1120			
	345.01	2960	171.4	17.68	107.28	344.48	2680	133.8	2160	1730			
	346.01	3560	179.7	20.06	122.19	345.52	3280	183.5	2200	2300			
	347.02	4120	172.9	19.38	137.61	346.52	3840	173.7	2200	2170			
	348.04	4640	174.4	19.72	153.61	347.52	4400	175.2	2170	2190			
	349.03	5160	169.2	19.04	166.25	348.54	4920	169.9	2100	2120			
	350.07	5600	165.4	20.4	179.17	349.54	5400	167.7	2080	2030			
	351.15	6000	158.6	19.38	181.81	350.54	5840	161.7	1970	1950			
	352.16	6400	151.1	18.7	183	351.68	6240	153.4	1940	1910			
	353.16	6720	145.9	18.02	185.83	352.66	6560	148.9	1930	1890

And my APR Stage 2 map, very weak in comparison................

Friday	2	April	2010	22:29:10									
06A 906 032 HJ 		1.8L R4/5VT         0002											
													
	Group A:	'002				Group B:	'115				Group C:	 Not Running	
		Idle speed	Engine load	Inj. period	Air mass in		Engine Speed	Engine Load	Spec. Boost	Actual Boost			
	TIME	700-820 rpm	15-25%	2.0 - 4.0 ms	2.0-4.5 g/s	TIME	700-6800 RPM	15-150%	990-1800 mbar	<=1800 mbar	TIME		
MARKER	STAMP	 /min	%	 ms	 g/s	STAMP	 /min	%	 mbar	 mbar	STAMP		
	0.01	1600	12.8	2.04	4.03	0.51	1600	13.5	980	990			
	1.01	1600	12.8	2.38	4.17	1.51	1600	12.8	980	990			
	2.02	1560	12	0	3.78	2.52	1520	12.8	980	990			
	3.08	1520	12.8	2.38	4.08	3.71	1520	25.6	980	990			
	4.22	1520	18.8	2.38	5.14	4.73	1480	18	980	990			
	10.36	1760	61.7	7.14	21.11	10.88	1840	83.5	1360	1140			
	11.37	1960	103.8	12.24	42.5	11.88	2080	112	1430	1350			
	12.38	2200	130.8	17	60.94	12.88	2400	151.1	2030	1800			
	13.38	2600	166.2	26.52	87.11	13.89	2800	189.5	2130	2250			
	14.38	3040	181.2	29.24	99.81	14.9	3280	185.7	2090	2120			
	15.4	3480	177.4	28.56	117.39	15.89	3680	175.2	2070	2040			
	16.4	3880	175.9	28.56	131.83	16.96	4120	177.4	2060	2060			
	17.6	4360	171.4	28.22	139.19	18.11	4600	169.2	1930	1960			
	18.62	4760	164.7	27.2	149.89	19.12	4960	159.4	1770	1800			
	19.62	5120	153.4	25.16	149.28	20.14	5280	148.1	1640	1680			
	20.63	5440	144.4	23.46	150.19	21.13	5560	140.6	1530	1580			
	21.65	5680	136.1	22.1	148.72	22.13	5800	133.1	1450	1530			
	22.64	5920	130.1	21.08	146.56	23.15	6040	125.6	1400	1450			
	23.68	6120	122.6	19.72	142.03	24.33	6240	121.1	1370	1400			
	24.85	6360	117.3	17.68	144.36	25.36	5400	11.3	980	1150

As you can see, there is a huge difference between the two maps, far more than there should be. I think my map has malfunctioned somehow as I KNOW that APR writes better software than this, any help would be much appreciated.

Below are my fuel trims and CFs. Its richening up nicely as the rpms increase and looks like it could run quite a lot more timing advance:

Friday	2	April	2010	22:42:07								
06A 906 032 HJ 		1.8L R4/5VT         0002										
												
	Group A:	'002				Group B:	'031				Group C:	 Not Running
		Idle speed	Engine load	Inj. period	Air mass in		Lambda Factor	Lambda Factor	Bin. Bits	Bin. Bits		
	TIME	700-820 rpm	15-25%	2.0 - 4.0 ms	2.0-4.5 g/s	TIME					TIME	
MARKER	STAMP	 /min	%	 ms	 g/s	STAMP					STAMP	
	0.01	1240	28.6	3.4	6.97	0.51	1.039	1	        	        		
	1.02	1200	21.1	2.72	5	1.56	1.016	1	        	        		
	2.2	1160	24.1	3.06	5.92	2.73	0.938	1	        	        		
	3.22	1200	60.9	6.8	14.03	3.73	1.023	1	        	        		
	4.22	1280	64.7	7.48	16.61	4.73	0.992	1	        	        		
	5.23	1400	63.2	7.14	17.5	5.74	0.984	1	        	        		
	6.24	1560	63.9	7.48	19.31	6.74	0.984	1	        	        		
	7.24	1720	77.4	8.84	25.22	7.74	1.039	1	        	        		
	8.33	1920	97	12.24	38.58	8.93	0.899	0.899	        	        		
	9.46	2320	132.3	17.68	63.31	9.96	0.914	0.852	        	        		
	10.46	2720	155.6	24.14	84.03	10.97	0.969	0.828	        	        		
	11.47	3200	185	29.58	109.25	11.97	0.977	0.828	        	        		
	12.47	3640	174.4	27.88	124.75	12.99	1.016	0.828	        	        		
	13.49	4080	172.9	28.22	134.61	13.98	1.016	0.828	        	        		
	14.48	4480	168.4	27.54	144.69	15	1.023	0.828	        	        		
	15.58	4880	160.9	26.18	150.22	16.14	0.992	0.828	        	        		
	16.71	5280	147.4	24.14	149.94	17.21	0.961	0.828	        	        		
	17.72	5600	141.4	23.12	152.64	18.22	0.938	0.828	        	        		
	18.71	5880	130.8	21.08	146.78	19.23	0.906	0.828	        	        		
	19.72	6120	126.3	20.4	146.53	20.24	0.883	0.805	        	        		
	20.74	6320	118	19.04	141.33	21.23	0.867	0.797	        	        		
	21.74	6480	112.8	18.02	140.61	22.3	0.86	0.86	        	        		
	22.91	6440	11.3	1.7	12	23.45	1.991	1.047

Friday	2	April	2010	23:02:47									
06A 906 032 HJ 		1.8L R4/5VT         0002											
													
	Group A:	'022				Group B:	'023				Group C:	 Not Running	
		Engine Speed	Engine Load	Tim. Retard 1	Tim. Retard 2		Engine Speed	Engine Load	Tim. Retard 3	Tim. Retard 4			
	TIME	700-6800 RPM	15-150%	0.75-12 KW	0.75-12 KW	TIME	700-6800 RPM	15-150%	0.75-12 KW	0.75-12 KW	TIME		
MARKER	STAMP	 /min	%	 CF	 CF	STAMP	 /min	%	 CF	 CF	STAMP		
	0.5	2680	26.3	0	0	0.01	2680	25.6	0	0			
	1.55	2680	27.1	0	0	1	2680	25.6	0	0			
	2.73	2800	56.4	0	0.8	2.17	2680	43.6	0	0			
	3.71	3360	154.1	0	0	3.21	3000	119.5	0	0			
	4.72	4080	188.7	0	1.5	4.23	3760	170.7	0	0			
	5.73	4800	168.4	0	0.8	5.22	4440	181.2	0	0			
	6.74	5360	113.5	0	2.3	6.23	5160	161.7	0	0			
	7.73	3600	18	0	0	7.23	4400	11.3	0	0			
	8.81	3480	11.3	0	0	8.24	3560	25.6	0	0			
	9.95	3320	12.8	0	0	9.41	3440	12	0	0			
	10.96	3120	12	0	0	10.45	3240	12.8	0	0			
	11.96	2920	13.5	0	0	11.46	3000	12	0	0

So guys, If Anybody can pick something out that I'm not seeing, I'd appreciate your help. I don't see that the car is doing anything other than what the map is requesting.

 

[Damoegan]

Boost is hitting requested but the requested is low for a stage 2 map, its actualy more like stage 1 boost.

As you said, MAF is low. Its almost like stock MAF readings..

Fueling isn't great as its running lean too....

 

[Cupra Ross]

Boost is hitting requested but the requested is low for a stage 2 map, its actualy more like stage 1 boost.

As you said, MAF is low. Its almost like stock MAF readings..

I thought lower equals richer Damien? I would have said that it was running a tad on the rich side if anything? You multiply the Lambda figure by 14.7 to get the Air/Fuel ratio, so a lower figure equals a higher ratio of fuel to air. At 0.8 labda factor on the log, the car is running an AFR of 11.7 to 1, nice and rich. I have the receipt for the Stage 2 APR software and Milltek turbo back from Awesome GTi.

If its running lean, that would point to a boost leak or a weak fuel pump but it still doesn't explain the requested boost dropping off to such a low level after the peak. I'm rapidly losing patience with this software.

 

[Damoegan]

When looking at 031, its actual fueling then requested fueling (opposite way to boost in block 115). Actual fueling x 14.7 = AFR.. You realy want to see 0.8xx in actual fueling under boost.

 

[Cupra Ross]

When looking at 031, its actual fueling then requested fueling (opposite way to boost in block 115). Actual fueling x 14.7 = AFR.. You realy want to see 0.8xx in actual fueling under boost.

Ok mate, got that one ar*e about face then I also realised that lean can't equal a boost leak. So its either the map or something fuel related then. I suppose its possible that the car isn't seeing enough fuel to meet the available air and thats why its requesting lower boost?

 

[Damoegan]

It is possible mate. I dont think I've seen a APR stage 2 log before so dont know what sort of boost they request..

 

[james walker]

but its not seeing enough air either at 150g/s

what filter is on it?

 

[Cupra Ross]

but its not seeing enough air either at 150g/s

what filter is on it?

New MAF tested with Carbonio CAI and Powertec open cone so thats not the problem. Its not being constrained by the intake. It sounds strange but airflow over the MAF is not directly related to boost pressure. This is because of the function of the N75. Its quite feasible that one map will show a higher MAF figure at lower boost than another map on the same car. In practice, this is exactly how it works, a good map doesn't rely on high boost to get a high MAF figure. I think the map itself may be at fault here. It should be somewhere in the region of 180 g/s and it shouldn't be dropping the requested boost anywhere near as much as it is. If this is due to insufficient fuel, its obviously doing a good job of stopping the boost air from blowing my engine up. If its not, the map needs tweaked.

I'm thinking it either has a vac leak somewhere (unlikely as N249 etc is bypassed) or the fuel filter is clogged, it hasn't been changed since new so this is quite likely. I'm not happy with the boost figures that the map is requesting at higher revs but this could be down to fuel starvation.

I'm going to start with the little things first so I'll change the fuel filter and see if it makes a difference. If that doesn't work, I'll change the Fuel Pressure Regulator and if I have no joy there, it'll be a new fuel pump.

Its hitting the lambda numbers at high revs but this is no surprise as the boost being requested is very low. My cupra could fuel enough for a ratio of about 11 to 1 or 0.75 on the lambda log at 1950mbar of boost and 6250rpm. The Bora isn't getting anywhere near this, its about 7 psi short of that and still won't fuel that rich.

 

[DPJ]

I think, looking at the load figures, it's pulling back because it's running really lean.

 

[Cupra Ross]

I think, looking at the load figures, it's pulling back because it's running really lean.

Dave,

Thanks for your input. I was getting confuddled because block 31 displays its figures the opposite way around from block 002. Do you think the fuel filter and FPR should be the first port of call?

Thanks,

Ross

 

[DPJ]

Dave,

Thanks for your input. I was getting confuddled because block 31 displays its figures the opposite way around from block 002. Do you think the fuel filter and FPR should be the first port of call?

Thanks,

Ross

Sorry about my reply delays, Ross. Having serious issues with my broadband. Yes, need to look at all causes of running lean, inc faulty injector. I doubt it's an under-reading maf.

 

[ibizacupra]

oddly enough i have logged an LC with APR2 on it, carbonio, full milltek etc
it ran more boost that yours is..

you sure its a stage 2?
dont they offer switchable maps?

 

[Cupra Ross]

Sorry about my reply delays, Ross. Having serious issues with my broadband. Yes, need to look at all causes of running lean, inc faulty injector. I doubt it's an under-reading maf.

Thanks Dave, I'm grateful for your help. I'll need to get this one on the rollers at Motoscope when I get the issues sorted.

oddly enough i have logged an LC with APR2 on it, carbonio, full milltek etc
it ran more boost that yours is..

you sure its a stage 2?
dont they offer switchable maps?

Hi Bill, yes its stage 2. It seems to be quite an intelligent map, see below.

The plot thickens:

Went to do some more logs to try to get to the bottom of this. Checking for fault codes came up with this:


2 Faults Found:

16795 - Secondary Air Injection System: Incorrect Flow Detected
P0411 - 35-00 - -
16804 - Catalyst System: Bank 1: Efficiency Below Threshold
P0420 - 35-00 - -

Getting my thinking cap on prompted me to look for a connection between the two. I thought about whether an incorrectly bypassed N249/N112 could cause these faults. More on this in a minute.

I did the block 002, 31, 32 and 115 logs again, this time in second gear and actually came up with some good figures. The fuel trim run o2 adaption was -0.8% meaning the car is actually trying to lean the mixture out slightly. Its running 12.5 to 1 at higher revs, a bit high and lean but the ECU is asking for it to be lean so I may disconnect the battery for a while to get it to forget its trim settings.

In 2nd gear this time, the car made 176.5g/s @ 6180 rpm and will still holding onto 1820mbar of boost at 6350rpm so producing somewhere around 220bhp. However, it couldn't match this in 3rd gear showing a trend of dropping off again towards the redline, exactly the opposite of what it should be doing. In conjunction with the two fault codes above, it got me thinking about whether an incorrectly bypassed N249/N112 could allow the SAI valve to open in high load situations, saturating the exhaust with outside air and making the lambda probes think that the mixture is a lot leaner than it actually is.

I took a look at the N249 bypass and its been done by simply disconnecting the N249/N112 hose from the manifold and running another one from that manifold port to the top of the DV. This leaves the entire N249/N112 circuit open to atmosphere, probably not a good thing for keeping the SAI valve closed under boost. I've reconnected the N249/N112 system but I can't do any more logs until tomorrow. I've posted the "good 2nd gear/not good 3rd gear" log below. It makes very interesting reading.

Any thoughts on this are much appreciated.

Saturday	3	April	2010	18:37:05						
06A 906 032 HJ 		1.8L R4/5VT         0002								
										
	Group A:	'002				Group B:	'115			
		Idle speed	Engine load	Inj. period	Air mass in		Engine Speed	Engine Load	Spec. Boost	Actual Boost
	TIME	700-820 rpm	15-25%	2.0 - 4.0 ms	2.0-4.5 g/s	TIME	700-6800 RPM	15-150%	990-1800 mbar	<=1800 mbar
MARKER	STAMP	 /min	%	 ms	 g/s	STAMP	 /min	%	 mbar	 mbar
	0.01	2320	13.5	0	5.97	0.5	2240	12	960	980
	1.02	2280	65.4	10.2	32.44	1.51	2440	98.5	1950	1240
	2.03	2680	130.1	14.62	74.06	2.57	3040	170.7	2120	2040
	3.2	3520	174.4	22.44	115.67	3.72	3960	178.9	2110	2120
	4.22	4320	177.4	23.8	144	4.75	4640	175.9	2040	2030
	5.25	4960	172.9	23.12	165.14	5.74	5280	169.9	1920	1920
	6.24	5560	163.9	22.1	173.75	6.75	5840	155.6	1830	1790
	7.25	6120	151.1	20.06	176.5	7.76	6360	145.1	1820	1740
	8.27	6280	33.8	2.72	10.94	8.77	5160	12	960	1100
	9.26	4280	73.7	10.88	74.67	9.85	4440	142.9	1980	1740
	10.41	4600	149.6	20.4	124.86	10.98	4680	85.7	1220	1400
	11.5	4720	93.2	11.56	82.94	11.98	4800	121.8	1970	1470
	12.48	4920	169.2	26.86	163.17	12.97	5080	159.4	1790	1900
	13.48	5240	151.9	25.16	148.72	13.99	5400	146.6	1650	1720
	14.49	5520	142.9	23.46	150.72	15.01	5680	136.8	1540	1590
	15.51	5800	133.1	21.76	146.78	16	5880	129.3	1470	1530
	16.58	6000	125.6	20.4	143.92	17.2	6120	123.3	1420	1470
	17.7	6200	120.3	19.72	143.92	18.22	6320	118	1340	1420

 

[Cupra Ross]

Re: Problems with 1.8T APR Stage 2 map. Vagcom Logs attached

Still struggling with this. The car seems as if the lambdas are either seeing far too much air in the exhaust or it just can't get fuel. This is a rubbish log but I'll post it anyway, the car is making no effort whatsoever to richen the mixture up even though it looks mega lean:

Saturday	24	April	2010	17:47:29					
06A 906 032 HJ 		1.8L R4/5VT      01 0002							
									
	Group A:	'031				Group B:	'032		
		Lambda Factor	Lambda Factor	Bin. Bits	Bin. Bits		Idle O2 Adapt	Run O2 Adapt	 
	TIME					TIME	-10.1	-10.1	 
MARKER	STAMP					STAMP	%	%	
	0.51	1	1	        	        	0.01	0.8	0	        
	1.65	1	1	        	        	1.07	0.8	0	        
	2.71	1.008	1	        	        	2.21	0.8	0	        
	3.72	0.992	1	        	        	3.22	0.8	0	        
	4.72	1.008	1	        	        	4.22	0.8	0	        
	5.73	0.969	1	        	        	5.24	0.8	0	        
	6.75	1.016	1	        	        	6.25	0.8	0	        
	7.82	1.008	1	        	        	7.25	0.8	0	        
	8.96	0.961	1	        	        	8.42	0.8	0	        
	9.97	1.008	1	        	        	9.45	0.8	0	        
	10.96	1.039	1	        	        	10.46	0.8	0	        
	11.97	0.961	1	        	        	11.47	0.8	0	        
	12.98	1.016	1	        	        	12.47	0.8	0	        
	13.98	1.156	0.883	        	        	13.48	0.8	0	        
	15.07	1.296	0.828	        	        	14.51	0.8	0	        
	16.09	0.875	1.047	        	        	15.61	0.8	0	        
	17.1	1.016	1	        	        	16.6	0.8	0	        
	18.1	1.289	0.914	        	        	17.6	0.8	0	        
	19.12	1.242	0.86	        	        	18.61	0.8	0	        
	20.13	1.359	0.828	        	        	19.62	0.8	0	        
	21.12	1.296	0.828	        	        	20.63	0.8	0	        
	22.29	1.109	0.828	        	        	21.69	0.8	0	        
	23.35	1.094	0.828	        	        	22.84	0.8	0	        
	[B]24.36	0.75	0.899	        	        	23.84	0.8	0	        
	25.37	0.797	0.875	        	        	24.85	0.8	0[/B]	        
	26.36	1	1.047	        	        	25.85	0.8	0	        
	27.36	1.991	1.047	        	        	26.87	0.8	0	        
	28.43	1.991	1.047	        	        	27.86	0.8	0	        
	29.58	1.991	1.047	        	        	29.05	0.8	0	        
	30.58	1.991	1.047	        	        	30.08	0.8	0	        
	31.58	1.991	1.047	        	        	31.08	0.8	0	        
	32.6	1.991	1.047	        	        	32.1	0.8	0	        
	33.59	1.991	1.047	        	        	33.1	0.8	0	        
	34.6	1.991	1.047	        	        	34.1	0.8	0	        
	35.77	1.991	1.047	        	        	35.13	0.8	0	        
	36.81	1.991	1.047	        	        	36.31	0.8	0	        
	37.83	1.991	1.047	        	        	37.32	0.8	0	        
	38.82	1.991	1.047	        	        	38.32	0.8	0	        
	39.83	1.991	1.047	        	        	39.34	0.8	0	        
	40.85	1.991	1.047	        	        	40.33	0.8	0	        
	41.85	1.991	1.047	        	        	41.34	0.8	0	        
	42.96	1.991	1.047	        	        	42.42	0.8	0	        
	43.95	1.172	0.797	        	        	43.46	0.8	0	        
	44.96	1.991	1.047	        	        	44.46	0.8	0	        
	45.97	1.991	1.047	        	        	45.46	0.8	0	        
	46.98	1.991	1.047	        	        	46.47	0.8	0	        
	47.98	1.991	1.047	        	        	47.47	0.8	0	        
	49.04	1.991	1.047	        	        	48.5	0.8	0	        
	50.2	1.616	0.805	        	        	49.65	0.8	0	        
	51.21	1.016	1	        	        	50.7	0.8	0	        
	[I]52.21	1.39	0.883	        	        	51.71	0.8	0	        
	53.22	1.304	0.828	        	        	52.71	0.8	0	        
	54.21	1.156	0.828	        	        	53.73	0.8	0	        
	55.23	1.086	0.828	        	        	54.73	0.8	0	        
	56.29	1.047	0.828	        	        	55.76	0.8	0[/I]	        
	57.33	1.164	1	        	        	56.85	0.8	0	        
	58.35	0.836	1	        	        	57.83	0.8	0	        
	59.35	1.991	1.047	        	        	58.84	0.8	0	        
	60.36	1.991	1.047	        	        	59.86	0.8	0

The couple of lines highlighted in bold show that the car is capable of getting plenty of fuel into the engine but for one reason or another, its just not doing it. The lines in italics are ones that scared me. I've ordered a new fuel pump in the hope that this will sort things out, I replaced the fuel filter last week and it made no difference whatsoever.

The only other things I can think of are:

1. an air leak between the MAF and the turbo (unmetered air getting in),
2. A leak in the exhaust between the turbo and lambda probes (doesn't sound like there is one)
3. Lambda probe needs replaced

I have a Forge TIP in my garage that I may fit today so that could rule option 1 out.

I'm getting a bit confused with this now guys, does anybody have any thoughts?

 

[ibizacupra]

Re: Problems with 1.8T APR Stage 2 map. Vagcom Logs attached

your requested boost is lower than the apr2 leon i logged the other week

why is this?

 

[Cupra Ross]

Re: Problems with 1.8T APR Stage 2 map. Vagcom Logs attached

I have no idea Bill. I think it pulls boost off when it detects lean running conditions or excessive heat. I can see the car is running lean, the annoying thing is that it is making no effort to richen the mixture up. This aspect is surely down to the map? I'm less than impressed with it. When I get the present issues sorted, it'll be getting a different map.

 

[Cupra Ross]

Re: Problems with 1.8T APR Stage 2 map. Vagcom Logs attached

Well, the TIP was not the problem. Forge one fitted and the problem remains. I'm getting some crazy Lambda readings and the car is really pulling back on boost. Log below:

Sunday	25	April	2010	15:20:14						
06A 906 032 HJ 		1.8L R4/5VT      01 0002								
										
	Group A:	'002				Group B:	'031			
		Idle speed	Engine load	Inj. period	Air mass in		Lambda Factor	Lambda Factor	Bin. Bits	Bin. Bits
	TIME	700-820 rpm	15-25%	2.0 - 4.0 ms	2.0-4.5 g/s	TIME				
MARKER	STAMP	 /min	%	 ms	 g/s	STAMP				
	0.5	1160	35.3	3.74	7.17	0	0.977	1	        	        
	1.51	1440	41.4	5.1	12.81	1	1.016	1	        	        
	2.52	2000	59.4	7.14	24.11	2.01	1.016	1	        	        
	3.6	2920	73.7	8.16	42.86	3.02	0.992	1	        	        
	4.74	1960	39.1	5.1	16.14	4.17	0.86	1	        	        
	5.73	2280	81.2	9.52	39.03	5.23	0.922	1	        	        
	6.74	2960	133.8	18.02	82.89	6.24	0.992	1	        	        
	7.75	3760	165.4	21.42	121.19	7.25	1.117	0.891	        	        
	8.76	4320	169.9	22.78	139.61	8.25	1.335	0.836	        	        
	9.76	4920	163.2	21.76	151.75	9.26	1.289	0.828	        	        
	10.95	4720	10.5	1.7	4.56	10.31	1.273	0.828	        	        
	12	3480	74.4	9.18	55.69	11.48	1.991	1	        	        
	12.99	3600	82.7	9.52	58.36	12.48	1.016	1	        	        
	13.99	3760	72.2	8.5	51.83	13.48	1	1	        	        
	15	2880	13.5	0	6.86	14.48	0.813	1	        	        
	15.99	2880	29.3	3.74	17.72	15.49	1.367	1	        	        
	17.02	2880	12.8	1.7	7.28	16.5	1	1	        	        
	18.1	2840	13.5	0	7.64	17.56	1.608	1.047	        	        
	19.12	2520	13.5	0	6.89	18.62	1.991	1.047	        	        
	20.13	1200	16.5	2.04	6.22	19.61	1.991	1.047	        	        
	21.12	2840	13.5	0	8.19	20.62	1.413	0.797	        	        
	22.13	1960	15	0	5.86	21.62	1.991	1.047	        	        
	23.13	1720	12.8	2.04	3.14	22.63	1.991	1	        	        
	24.22	3880	15.8	2.04	11.83	23.65	0.914	1	        	        
	25.35	4440	172.2	22.1	150.22	24.81	0.961	1	        	        
	26.37	4960	162.4	26.52	149.47	25.85	1.367	0.883	        	        
	27.37	5640	144.4	24.48	157.58	26.85	1.125	0.828	        	        
	28.38	6240	130.8	21.76	154.89	27.87	1.101	0.828	        	        
	29.4	5840	10.5	1.7	4.31	28.89	1.031	0.828	        	        
	30.39	4560	144.4	20.74	149.67	29.88	1.047	0.977	        	        
	31.46	4800	163.9	21.42	149.28	30.9	1.343	0.852	        	        
	32.49	5120	158.6	21.42	153.39	31.99	1.273	0.836	        	        
	33.51	5360	75.9	9.18	49.97	33.01	1.257	0.813	        	        
	34.52	5600	160.2	22.78	169.97	34.01	1.008	0.821	        	        
	35.51	5440	11.3	1.7	9.94	35.01	0.75	0.984	        	        
	36.51	5040	12	0	10.58	36.01	1.991	1.047	        	        
	37.52	4600	11.3	0	10.5	37.02	1.991	1.047	        	        
	38.66	4240	12	0	10.11	38.08	1.991	1.047	        	        
	39.73	3840	12.8	0	9.86	39.24	1.991	1.047	        	        
	40.74	3560	12.8	0	8.97	40.23	1.991	1.047	        	        
	41.75	3440	12	0	8.17	41.25	1.991	1.047	        	        
	42.76	3240	12.8	0	8.14	42.25	1.991	1.047

Possibilities?

Fuel Pump, Lambda probe, Fuel injector?

 

[Cupra Ross]

Covering all bases, I've ordered a new fuel pump and front lambda sensor, the only other possibility is an injector but I think the chance of that is remote. The car has been run on nothing other than Optimax/V-Power for the last 6 years. Failing all of the above, its the APR map that's at fault. I emailed them but got no response, quality customer service I don't think.

An expensive week. Intake manifold and throttle body, Forge TIP, LCR fuel pump and Lambda sensor

 

[Cupra Ross]

Just to keep this up to date in case anybody has a similar problem in the future. I checked the turbo to downpipe connection and also the exhaust manifold for leaks today, nothing leaking. I also checked the plugs to see if the electrodes were white from lean running. They are a perfect light chocolate brown meaning that the engine is being correctly fueled.

The deduction to be made? The front Lambda sensor is fcukd. Replacing it tomorrow at work and will update on progress. People always jump on the MAF as being the root of any fueling problems and to be fair, it usually is. Its worth bearing in mind that there are lots of other things that can cause fueling issues.

To Bill,

I contacted Awesome GTi today who confirmed that the car has APR Stage 2 and they offered to reflash it free of charge if the problems persist after fitting a new Lambda. John also stated that the APR stage 2 map relies on timing advance to make its power rather than massive boost and that any sensor reported fueling problems cause the map to drop boost and timing very quickly.

 

[ibizacupra]

can you do a log which shows:
block 001, 031 and 115 @ the same time, so request vs actual boost and fueling can be seen, as well as short term lambda correction which will show if its trying to adjust..

NOTE: as I have seen recently, and confirmed for myself, if there are badly done N249 type bypasses etc done, then adaption is prevented by ecu..