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Poverty
Guest
Poverty
Guest
If i,m reading it right thats a really weird set of figures you have there.
364bhp with only 325lb/ft, and 299bhp @ the wheels
Exactly my thoughts
Correct me if i,m wrong, but with the headline bhp figure it should be making at least the same in torque and 320bhp+ @ the wheels.
perhaps it was jumping on the rollers
Correct me if i,m wrong, but with the headline bhp figure it should be making at least the same in torque and 320bhp+ @ the wheels.
perhaps it was jumping on the rollers
Yep, you are correct. It wont have been jumping on the rollers though because those plots are way too smooth for that.
Most MK2 Cupras with all the bolt ons and software to suit make approx 320-330hp at the wheels, dyno dependant from the increasing number of cars that have been dyno'd with these bits and bobs. It is more likely that wheelspin would be a problem than jumping, but wheelspin would show much higher than expected bhp figures typically.
Lighter wheels, lighter flywheel, lighter pulleys, lighter brake discs etc would see this whp increase however as you aware.
Another point worth noting is however that CupraBaz on here has a 1.8T Mk3 Ibiza. His car measures exactly the same fly bhp on a Daztek r/r as a Maha r/r, but the whp figure differs Given that the fly bhp is calculated, aside from all the ifs buts and maybes (tyre pressures, how much car is strapped down etc), it again proves that the only way you can compare cars is to run them on the same r/r on the same day.
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I doubt the car is making that power. I'd bring it to JKM's rollers it would then give a more realistic figure around 325 to 330 ish at the flywheel ....
Poverty
Guest
why only 330ish at flywheel? Or is it the whole, jkm rollers are more accurate/realistic than others debacle?
I'd say accurate. Here's a JKM readout of a ED30 stage 2+
http://www.jkm.org.uk/performance/M.../Golf GTI RR Day 03 10 09/Dyno Graphs/JYF.gif
My own Octavia has a KO4 and is equivalent to a stage 2+ now and with all the other stuff, pump, twintercooler, Evom's ,Exhaust etc and gave the exact same power too..
http://www.jkm.org.uk/performance/M.../Golf GTI RR Day 03 10 09/Dyno Graphs/JYF.gif
My own Octavia has a KO4 and is equivalent to a stage 2+ now and with all the other stuff, pump, twintercooler, Evom's ,Exhaust etc and gave the exact same power too..
Good god not this jkm rubbish again, just because its a lower figure doesnt mean its more accurate mate.
Real world test between stage 2+ cars and other cars would suggest the cupra puts out around 360ish not the acclaimed 320 at jkm.
Anyone remember the evo test in june edition when the revo cupra was almost 10 seconds quicker to 150mph than a focus rs or subaru sti, thats hardly 20bhp difference is it and that particular car didnt have an aftermarket intercooler or intake at the time of the test!
Also how does a cupra with supposedly 320bhp go past an rs4 on a rolling start, "cough Vtecabuser cough" and please dont quote vehicle weights.
Please this jkm rubbish is doing my head in, im not number chasing just fed up with jkm's perfect rollers all the time. soon as someone quotes figures of 360bhp theres always someone to quote jkm's rollers, sorry nothing personel its just getting old.
Rant over
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Poverty
Guest
as above, except I couldnt be bother to type it out. If the stage 2 plus k04 is only 320hp then we better start downrating every other car out there. Its regardless anyway, you should always stick with the same dyno if possible when modding so you can see what the improvement is, and not the headline figure.
Not taking anything away from JKM though as they know their way around a 2.0tfsi better than most.
Not taking anything away from JKM though as they know their way around a 2.0tfsi better than most.
Oh great my car must be making 360bhp + then. The reason i think JKM's rollers are accurate is because standard cars give bang on what they are supposed to be... But if you like to dream be my guest The TFSI is a torqey engine for a petrol so will give it a good start. If the road was a lot longer the RS4 would have gotten by vtecabusers car i would bet.
. The reason i think JKM's rollers are accurate is because standard cars give bang on what they are supposed to be... But if you like to dream be my guest The TFSI is a torqey engine for a petrol so will give it a good start. If the road was a lot longer the RS4 would have gotten by vtecabusers car i would bet.
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but every engine is different and most of them are underated, most engines give more I forget how it was put but superchips did explain that when they were remapping the FOcus TDCi most gave 120-125 bhp but the engine was rated at 115ps (113bhp) manufactures have to build them to be within tollerence or face fines. I've never had an engine produce book figures I've used northampton motorsport, superchips (very accurate and tested reguarly) and power engineering and all were within a few bhp of each other.
As what poverty said dyno's should be used to guage how effective mods are but i aint buying the claimed figures at jkm when comparing to other cars like stage 3 vxr's and st's the cupra just walks past them with ease and i wasnt dreaming that anyway just my opinion.
Oh and jkm do know their stuff thats not in question.
anyway just my opinion.Oh and jkm do know their stuff thats not in question.
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Sorry for the delay, here's a clearer graph:
I must get the car to a more consistent dyno, this happens every time at TSR! Hope he straps everyone's car correctly ist time tomorrow or it'll be a long day! The initial torque reading on the ist run (390ft/lb) is always going to be right, it's just a case of getting a big hp FWD car to stay put on the rollers on the overrun when the drag is measured in order to calculate the engine bhp, the car just wants to "kick" and throws up daft (500 !) engine bhp readings.........
I must get the car to a more consistent dyno, this happens every time at TSR! Hope he straps everyone's car correctly ist time tomorrow or it'll be a long day! The initial torque reading on the ist run (390ft/lb) is always going to be right, it's just a case of getting a big hp FWD car to stay put on the rollers on the overrun when the drag is measured in order to calculate the engine bhp, the car just wants to "kick" and throws up daft (500 !) engine bhp readings.........
Rob, you're more than welcome tomorrow, what time you down?
Also re the "discussion" above, I appreciate the dyno lottery, but for me the important thing is the 60 bhp increase on the same dyno over my stage 1 figure of 300....................... Maybe that figure was wrong but what I have achieved is a 20% gain whichever way you look at it! Also the shape of the graph is a little different to others I've seen on here, but I bet if Rob or Poverty or Blade came along we'd all have similar results
Also re the "discussion" above, I appreciate the dyno lottery, but for me the important thing is the 60 bhp increase on the same dyno over my stage 1 figure of 300....................... Maybe that figure was wrong but what I have achieved is a 20% gain whichever way you look at it! Also the shape of the graph is a little different to others I've seen on here, but I bet if Rob or Poverty or Blade came along we'd all have similar results
Oh great my car must be making 360bhp + then
Have you changed the camshafts as well? Revos TT does not make the figures their Cupra does, and they put that down to the camshafts being different in the K04 car. I believe the difference is to the tune of 15-20bhp. If not, you probably would be closer to 340bhp than 360bhp
. Have you had your car tested on a r/r other than JKM's out of interest?Regarding JKM's rollers, it is bizarre that they seem to have different results from every other r/r. I would be intersted to know the numbers Astra VXR's and Focus ST's make on their rollers in stock/modified states of tune as a comparison.
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Sorry Pov, Somerset's in the Southwest, on the way to Devon, you're welcome anytime for a blast and a brew!
Have you changed the camshafts as well? Revos TT does not make the figures their Cupra does, and they put that down to the camshafts being different in the K04 car. I believe the difference is to the tune of 15-20bhp. If not, you probably would be closer to 340bhp than 360bhp
Regarding JKM's rollers, it is bizarre that they seem to have different results from every other r/r. I would be intersted to know the numbers Astra VXR's and Focus ST's make on their rollers in stock/modified states of tune as a comparison.
The cams make no difference. My car on the same RR gave the exact same results that any stage 2+ KO4 car did. Anyway it's debatable( meaning they could be but possibly questionable) about the BWJ and BYD if there is any difference in shafts, it's the BHZ engine from the S3 with most of those differences
My car has no problem keeping with a mates stage 2+ Cupra, in fact my top end i have the slight advantage because my aerodynamics are better on the vRS.
One thing i won't argue about, these uprated pumped KO4 cars are fecking rapid
best mod i ever did.
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The cams make no difference. My car on the same RR gave the exact same results that any stage 2+ KO4 car did. Anyway it's debatable( meaning they could be but possibly questionable) about the BWJ and BYD if there is any difference in shafts, it's the BHZ engine from the S3 with most of those differences
My car has no problem keeping with a mates stage 2+ Cupra, in fact my top end i have the slight advantage because my aerodynamics are better on the vRS.
One thing i won't argue about, these uprated pumped KO4 cars are fecking rapid
Weird - I recall the cams in the K04 cars to be the same - and different to those in a K03s car. I can and will check though to make sure I am not losing my marbles! I also specifically remember speaking to Kev and him saying that it was the cams that made the difference.
Do you have any reference points for VXR's/ST's on JKM's rollers or your car on other rollers?
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