tdi sport 130 remaped no difference? Remap reviews please

[SteveC123]

i know curpa has nearly 100 more lbs of torque

*Peak* torque... it has nearly 100 lb/ft more *peak* torque.

There's more to what makes a car shift than just its peak figures, you know.

If not... well I guess Integra Type Rs must be *really* slow, given how low they are on torque by comparison to a TDI.

and as stated by lots of clio owners a rolling start 30-40 the cupra will win

That still doesn't mean that the video you offered up as 'evidence' shows two drivers getting the absolute best out of their cars.

diesels not good at the start

Oh aye... I'm *always* getting rinsed at the lights in my Ibiza thanks to its lack of low down shove... terrible it is, as was the Passat TDI before it.

or top end but mid range they will suprise most cars

Top end - this is only a problem if you've not yet figured out that rather than rag the tits off the car well into the red, it's perhaps better to change up that bit earlier.

The biggest problem with the Ibiza 130 Sport, is that fifth is too short given the rev range in which it has power and sixth is too long to quite be in the right place for the car to do its worst if you're trying to do a decent top speed run.

The gearing in my Passat TDI meant you got more outright top end due to its ability to pull its way through the slightly lower top gear with more ease.

I believe the FR has a lower ratio box than the Sport... as does the Fabia vRS.

 

[antnee]

No, with real 190bhp it is doable. With 190"tuner"bhp NOT.....

Mine on the right lane, #123:

At this time i had about 190-195bhp

With real 230bhp you come close to 14.0, with luck even under 14.

Greets, Alex

Ahh, when you said 14's I thought you mean like 14.0!! They are some good times!

Tom. who has hybrid has run a 14.0, T Spark who has hybrid and meth for cooling has run 13.7

 

[Gaz44]

in the video the curpra comes back hard in mid range 30-70mph indicating better mid range and you can see that in the video?

This is not what mid range means.

im sorry i dont need rr and all the other tests as me driving and stop watch shows me real life driving performance and figures.

This does not show any real life figures, so your times are not going to be in any way accurate!

130 tdi states 0-60 9.4 thats the smae as a saxo vtr however in real life driving the saxo wouldnt stand a chance? tdi has more than twice the pulling power.

In gear, yes, the Ibiza 130 would pull easily. 0-60, there wouldn't be that much in it. As I said previously, the turbo makes the car FEEL quicker than it is. The mid-range is where the main advantage would lie. Remember, the Saxo weighs less than 1000kg, so has a good power to weight ratio for a 100hp car, which you are failing to realise.

iv read standard 130 tdi ibiza is around 21 sec 0-100. if remaped ( giving more power than a standard cupra 180ish ) surley the 17sec you qoute for your cupra makes perfect sence to me as most people state a remaped 130 does 0-100 in around 17-18 sec ?

As I said, 0-100 will be closer to a 3 secs increase but you were talking about 0-60.

and you get a better gain from the 130pd over the 160 cupra with a remap

See above.

 

[BKR]

Ahh, when you said 14's I thought you mean like 14.0!! They are some good times!

Tom. who has hybrid has run a 14.0, T Spark who has hybrid and meth for cooling has run 13.7

Well T. Spark's PB is actually a 13.5 IIRC, and that was without the Meth fitted, in regards to with a real"230bhp" coming close to a 14.0 or even with luck under it, then T. Spark must be the luckiest guy on the planet,as he is running standard injectors, has 226bhp on his last rolling road and can run under 14 seconds, not just onthe odd occasion, but 8 times over the past year, infact minus the off 2nd gear launch that boggs down at 1,000rpmhe never runs below 14.2's from what I have seen, he has ran at three different events and hit below 14 seconds,GTi Inters which is at Bruntingthorpe Proving Grounds, again before and after on two different days at Santa PodRaceway, and again last weekend at Shakespeare Raceway.

 

[jaz205gti]

torque = pulling power

yes i know bhp to ton figures count however integra figures are misleading add some weight, and those figures will go down a lot!

people seem to forget real life driving conditions , we are not rally drivers , petrol cars need high reving , you need to be in the right gear, diesels move from any gear
your avrage driver would do better in a diesel car.

i wanted to change my 130 ibiza to a 225bhp rx8
i test drove one , going up a slight hill joining the motrway it was shocking!! no power
my ibza felt quicker no torque!

 

[SteveC123]

torque = pulling power

yes i know bhp to ton figures count however integra figures are misleading add some weight, and those figures will go down a lot!

Not as much as you'd think, and if that was the case, then my Ibiza should be *much* quicker in the real world than my Passat TDI was, (a car that was at least 300kg heavier), and it isn't.

people seem to forget real life driving conditions , we are not rally drivers , petrol cars need high reving , you need to be in the right gear, diesels move from any gear
your avrage driver would do better in a diesel car.

Oh right... only you said up there diesels were rubbish low down?

i wanted to change my 130 ibiza to a 225bhp rx8
i test drove one , going up a slight hill joining the motrway it was shocking!! no power
my ibza felt quicker no torque!

It might feel quicker, but I'll bet it isn't - tis a question of being able to drive it in a such a way that you get the best out of the power available.

 

[Gaz44]

torque = pulling power

yes i know bhp to ton figures count however integra figures are misleading add some weight, and those figures will go down a lot!

people seem to forget real life driving conditions , we are not rally drivers , petrol cars need high reving , you need to be in the right gear, diesels move from any gear
your avrage driver would do better in a diesel car.

i wanted to change my 130 ibiza to a 225bhp rx8
i test drove one , going up a slight hill joining the motrway it was shocking!! no power
my ibza felt quicker no torque!

Sorry, this just gets worse!

If petrol cars need high revving, then you let them rev. An RX8 will out perform a standard and remapped Ibiza 130 in almost all situations. Just because you need to rev it doesn't make it slow. And to say it has no power...it has 225! You can rev them to 9000rpm! You're done by 4000!

What does "My Ibiza felt quicker no torque" mean?

If you mean it felt quicker because the RX8 has less torque, then you are right. But in reality, it's not. Real life driving conditions don't mean you can't rev a car or you can't change down gears to hit the power.

My car has as much torque as a Porsche Boxster S (older version) but it doesn't mean it's faster in any way! Torque and power are limited by the car's gearing.

 

[jaz205gti]

Ibiza quicker no torque in the rx8 I meant!
Iv never owned a rx8 but just read reviews on the car and see what ALL owners say about the torque.

im sorry but some of you are missing the point of cause rx8 has 225bhp but its also 1400kgs
and around 160lbs torque 225 doesn’t do nothing when this thing has to go up a hill
believe me folks i thought the one i test drove was knackered they all did it
Shocking going up a hill

Believe it or not going up a hill or when your car has more than 2 people torque kicks in hard

Let me give u a example my brothers a8 tdi 4.0 out preformed subru sti in mid range? Both cars full
Both have similar bhp yet a8 is a LOT heavier?

Petrol cars suffer lot more under load than diesels do simple logics?

The owner who said passat is on par with his Ibiza

Sorry there must be something wrong with your car as 300kg is a huge difference when your talking about cars.
My brother has a superb 130 tdi ( same weight as a passat ) and there is a huge difference in performance my and his car?

Some people are misinterpreting what im saying of cause rx8 is a high performing car lot faster than tdi on a track and road , however put in 4 people in a rx8 and a remapped Ibiza would beat an rx8 up a hill I have no doubt about that bhp means nothing. Let the thing run up to 9000 it will still be left behind
Im sorry you cant comment on it unless you drive one , iv driven lots!

Have a loaded rx8 and knock down a gear going up a hill and see what happens nothing lol

1.3 in a 1400kg car ???????

rx8 has same performance as clio sport , check the figures online?
Clio = 1000kg 150lbs torque
Rx8 = 1400kg 160lbs torque

And yet remapped Ibiza has similar performance to Clio?


And yes diesels have little power at start and top end ( they rev low 4000)

Why are more and more rally cars changing to diesel?

Why has 535d have similar mid range to m5 yet m5 has 220bhp more over diesel?

 

[antnee]

Well T. Spark's PB is actually a 13.5 IIRC, and that was without the Meth fitted, in regards to with a real"230bhp" coming close to a 14.0 or even with luck under it, then T. Spark must be the luckiest guy on the planet,as he is running standard injectors, has 226bhp on his last rolling road and can run under 14 seconds, not just onthe odd occasion, but 8 times over the past year, infact minus the off 2nd gear launch that boggs down at 1,000rpmhe never runs below 14.2's from what I have seen, he has ran at three different events and hit below 14 seconds,GTi Inters which is at Bruntingthorpe Proving Grounds, again before and after on two different days at Santa PodRaceway, and again last weekend at Shakespeare Raceway.

He doesn't really count the Inters time. He has had water/meth running last time he ran at shakespear and pod you know

 

[beeko85]

Ibiza quicker no torque in the rx8 I meant!
Iv never owned a rx8 but just read reviews on the car and see what ALL owners say about the torque.

im sorry but some of you are missing the point of cause rx8 has 225bhp but its also 1400kgs
and around 160lbs torque 225 doesn’t do nothing when this thing has to go up a hill
believe me folks i thought the one i test drove was knackered they all did it
Shocking going up a hill

Believe it or not going up a hill or when your car has more than 2 people torque kicks in hard

Let me give u a example my brothers a8 tdi 4.0 out preformed subru sti in mid range? Both cars full
Both have similar bhp yet a8 is a LOT heavier?

Petrol cars suffer lot more under load than diesels do simple logics?

The owner who said passat is on par with his Ibiza

Sorry there must be something wrong with your car as 300kg is a huge difference when your talking about cars.
My brother has a superb 130 tdi ( same weight as a passat ) and there is a huge difference in performance my and his car?

Some people are misinterpreting what im saying of cause rx8 is a high performing car lot faster than tdi on a track and road , however put in 4 people in a rx8 and a remapped Ibiza would beat an rx8 up a hill I have no doubt about that bhp means nothing. Let the thing run up to 9000 it will still be left behind
Im sorry you cant comment on it unless you drive one , iv driven lots!

Have a loaded rx8 and knock down a gear going up a hill and see what happens nothing lol

1.3 in a 1400kg car ???????

rx8 has same performance as clio sport , check the figures online?
Clio = 1000kg 150lbs torque
Rx8 = 1400kg 160lbs torque

And yet remapped Ibiza has similar performance to Clio?


And yes diesels have little power at start and top end ( they rev low 4000)

Why are more and more rally cars changing to diesel?

Why has 535d have similar mid range to m5 yet m5 has 220bhp more over diesel?

Well ill admit im not an expert and im only on my fourth car, but the last two have been diesels, the last one was remapped. i wanted a petrol this time because theyre supposed to be beter performance...but as far as most na petrol engines go, theyre not.
jaz is spot on a remapped ibiza to say 170 would stay right behind a civic type r from about 20 to say 80, mid range, ive done it in a megane diesel mapped to 165, and im sure the vag engine is stronger than the renault was. i also took a test drive in a megane 175gt dci which was a compnay car for the service maganer that they wanted to sell, the guy had it mapped to 205bhp and an rx8 couldnt overtake me on a reasonably long stretch on single carriageway, he had to pull back in. now im not sure if this was a 225bhp one, theres a less powerful one than that i think, but it could have been, and id say that even if it wasnt, the faster one wouldnt have gotten past either. a remapped leon fr even to around 210 which is where they used to have to stop for dpf issues would leave the faster rx8 sitting from second gear all the way to fifth.
Also, the point about going up hill feels right. im not saying it is, im saying from what i can feel, it seems to be. my mapped megane felt far quicker up a steep hill that i drive every day than my fr tfsi did, until i got it a remap. likewise, ive driven a mates impreza sti prodrive- amazing in a straight line, and round any country road, but up that same hill it does seem to strugle a lot more than it should. ive also driven that imprezza with four people in the car, and yes four people in that do make a really big difference, just as they do in leon. but in my dads car, a 3.0tdi four people feel like they make much less of a difference

 

[NickyJam]

i didn't really want to jump on the band-wagon...but just had to

basically people seem to be misenterpreting the differences between Torque and HP. Diesels have always been more robust, capable of creating more powerful engines...whereas Petrols are more refined and better for outright performance allowing them to rev a lot higher.

Once fitted with a turbo all diesels (be it a 1.4TDi or 3.0TDi) will climb hills with hardly no struggle in 2nd and even 3rd in higher engine range due to torque (as mentioned already, pulling power). Take tractors for example who need huge torques to pull heavy objects along with themselves and rotate their huge tyres, these won't have high HP figures. Doesn't mean they have no "power" it's just set up in a specific way

with modern day diesel-powered sports cars engineers have to try to get the balance right as having too much bhp will have a massive impact on CO2 emissions and therefore map the engines to have more grunt and fit turbos to them

this is a basic view of the whole subject, but hopefully it can answer some people's questions

P.S. i don't believe RX8's are fitted with turbo's so even they will struggle up a steepish hill. I've seen prestige petrol-engined cars with masses of HP get overtaken climbing hills in the north of Portugal by little TDi's so in some ways Diesels can be better without too much compromise

 

[BKR]

He doesn't really count the Inters time. He has had water/meth running last time he ran at shakespear and pod you know

why would he not count the run at inters oh wait he would

i know he has been running water meth i was talking to him whilst he was getting it fitted

 

[Gaz44]

Ibiza quicker no torque in the rx8 I meant!
Iv never owned a rx8 but just read reviews on the car and see what ALL owners say about the torque.

im sorry but some of you are missing the point of cause rx8 has 225bhp but its also 1400kgs
and around 160lbs torque 225 doesn’t do nothing when this thing has to go up a hill
believe me folks i thought the one i test drove was knackered they all did it
Shocking going up a hill

Believe it or not going up a hill or when your car has more than 2 people torque kicks in hard

Let me give u a example my brothers a8 tdi 4.0 out preformed subru sti in mid range? Both cars full
Both have similar bhp yet a8 is a LOT heavier?

Petrol cars suffer lot more under load than diesels do simple logics?

The owner who said passat is on par with his Ibiza

Sorry there must be something wrong with your car as 300kg is a huge difference when your talking about cars.
My brother has a superb 130 tdi ( same weight as a passat ) and there is a huge difference in performance my and his car?

Some people are misinterpreting what im saying of cause rx8 is a high performing car lot faster than tdi on a track and road , however put in 4 people in a rx8 and a remapped Ibiza would beat an rx8 up a hill I have no doubt about that bhp means nothing. Let the thing run up to 9000 it will still be left behind
Im sorry you cant comment on it unless you drive one , iv driven lots!

Have a loaded rx8 and knock down a gear going up a hill and see what happens nothing lol

1.3 in a 1400kg car ???????

rx8 has same performance as clio sport , check the figures online?
Clio = 1000kg 150lbs torque
Rx8 = 1400kg 160lbs torque

And yet remapped Ibiza has similar performance to Clio?


And yes diesels have little power at start and top end ( they rev low 4000)

Why are more and more rally cars changing to diesel?

Why has 535d have similar mid range to m5 yet m5 has 220bhp more over diesel?

I agree, the mid-range punch is the diesel cars' trump card - the in-gear times are very good due to the higher torque which is good for pulling heavy loads and hills. With regards to the BMW, yes, the mid-range is very impressive on the 535d and will hold a M5 but you started this thread by looking at reducing your 0-60 by 3 secs with a remap. If you line up both BMW's in a drag to top speeds, the diesel will not stand a chance.

I'm not really sure what you are getting at anymore? It sounds like you are trying to justify the benefits of diesel over petrol, which most people will already know. The main issue with power v torque is the gearing and the torque at the wheels (which is limited by the gearing). This is the defining factor.

And if you are carrying 4 people in a car, why would you be trying to race anyway? The RX8 with it's little amount of torque will still make it up the hill with 4 passengers. Saying that changing down a gear or two makes no difference is rubbish. My Clio managed fine with 4 people in it but you had to rev it.

 

[SteveC123]

Once fitted with a turbo all diesels (be it a 1.4TDi or 3.0TDi) will climb hills with hardly no struggle in 2nd and even 3rd in higher engine range due to torque (as mentioned already, pulling power).

You appear to have mis-spelt '6th'.

And I don't consider 'pulling like a train' from around 1800rpm upwards to be in the 'higher engine range' either.

 

[SteveC123]

jaz is spot on a remapped ibiza to say 170 would stay right behind a civic type r from about 20 to say 80

Humm... I've managed to keep on level terms with an Integra Type-R DC5 when we both nailed it at about 80 and beyond tbh.

And this was before the FMIC went in and I had the map tweaked (again).

 

[broadbandings]

my previous car was a clio 182, and if treated correctly the thing flew! but honestly i used to get seen off by flipping golf tdi's unless i wasnt right on the button in terms of gear selection. and get 3 mates in it and it was dog slow. ive loaded the cupra up with 4 lads in it and barely noticed the difference in performance.

my mate turned up at mine once in a bmw 120D and said see if you can keep up - i laughed in his face. but i sh*t you not i couldnt catch it.
that along with several other close encounters with diesels (golf tdi's mainly) made me think to move over to the dark side. plus they were doing 40mpg whilst i was thrashing its tits off at 22mpg

real life driving, ill take a diesel.

 

[SteveC123]

The owner who said passat is on par with his Ibiza

Sorry there must be something wrong with your car as 300kg is a huge difference when your talking about cars.

There's nothing wrong with my Ibiza - *read* what I wrote again with regards to top speed runs etc.

There's more to what makes one car faster than another than just outright BHP and weight...

My brother has a superb 130 tdi ( same weight as a passat ) and there is a huge difference in performance my and his car

Which brings us nicely back to the original point people picked you up on when you determined your car was keeping up with a mapped Ibiza - your car is mapped, and I suspect your brothers Superb isn't, whereas both my Ibiza and the Passat before it, were mapped.

I've also slung both of them round the same bit of track on a trackday...

And yes diesels have little power at start and top end ( they rev low 4000)

*sigh*

Yes, they may rev lower (normally to around 5k, actually), and yes, they make more of their outright poke in the mid range, but they are most definitely not the poor relation to petrols when it comes to low down power or 'start' as you like to put it.

 

[jaz205gti]

Right folks can I start by saying thank you beeko85 , nickyjam and broadbandings for showing more evidence on the points I was talking about .

And Gaz 44 please look back at the original threads as I have never stated taking 3 sec of 0-60 (that was crossy r thread)
I stated maybe 3 sec off 0-100

My original thread was basically asking approximate figures of before and after remap?
Which is what im trying to get at to answer your question gaz?

I didn’t realise you can only race people if you have no passengers? Why do people have sports cars and high powered cars if they are not going to enjoy the drive , and Im not a boy racer lol

And gaz 535d and m5 to top speed race obviously m5 will win, but once again you fail to understand what im saying REAL LIFE DRIVING I don’t do top speeds on roads however mid range driving counts in everyday driving for me. My friend has 535d and its amazing.

When I said changing down in rx8 will make no difference I was exaggerating , obviously you didn’t get it?

And steve just to clarify my car isn’t remapped as it came out 145bhp on rr
And yes diesels rev to 5k but I change before the red at about 4k hence I stated rev to 4k and yes I have stated diesels have poor start twice. So we don’t need to say it again. I was referring to loaded car or going up a hill not straight drag race.

Please can I have some answers to original thread as I think we all getting carried away.

It is a interesting topic and as enthusiasts we could learn a lot from each other

 

[BKR]

Ahh, when you said 14's I thought you mean like 14.0!! They are some good times!

Tom. who has hybrid has run a 14.0, T Spark who has hybrid and meth for cooling has run 13.7

and whilst im thinking about it you have quoted his 5.0 seconds dead 0-60.... and that was done on which run ooooooooohhhhh yea

you cant have it both ways dude

plus he hasnt got the meth set up into his system (ie mapped in) and its mainly water he is running anyway not much meth at all

 

[broadbandings]

pleasure to be of service

clio isnt as fast day to day