Newbie and a problem already

[Mudz]

hi there i am a nebie so please bear with me

I rescently Bought my leon 2001 tdi (110), after purchasing the car, drove home to find it overheating on the motorway with coolant loss, Fearing the worst a head gasket the day i bought the car i was gutted, but i managed to drive the car home 50 miles locally with hardly any coolant loss and no severe over heating,

My question is what is the normal temp it shud rest at Mine tends to rest at 90 is this normal, i see no other signs of hgf, no smoke plenty of power, no mayo,

I have since flushed the sytem out, and removed the thermostat, and it does seem the water is more free flowing through the raidator, to see if this was the fault but havnt tried it on the motorway as it is still at 90 degrees is this normal,

any ideas and info greatly appreciated

 

[Mudz]

Any info appreciated

 

[Viking]

90 on the gauge is where it should be. However the gauge lies. It can be actual temperature quite a few degrees either side of 90 and not move, but when it does move it's generally a warning not to be ignored.

Head gasket failure on a tdi manifests itself as overpressurising the coolant circuit and coolant loss through the blow off cap (pressure relief). Not usually mayo on the oil cap, but you'll get a discolouring in the coolant header bottle. The coolant should be a pinky purple colour.

 

[Mudz]

right now then that has got me worried, the colour is all orangey i thought that was just because it was dirty, and it does seem to letting out water through the overflow, what should be the next cause of action to diagnoseitas hgf.

thanks for help so far,

 

[Viking]

Top the coolant up with fresh water (no point wasting coolant at the moment) and after a drive to get the engine up to temperature, check the hoses to the radiator. They'll be hot, but if they're rock hard, that indicates the combustion gasses (much higher pressure than the coolant circuit usually has) are passing the head gasket and entering the coolant channel.

Or you can take it to a good garage and they can use a sniff test to check the coolant for exhaust gas. That can usually be a very good indicator.

However, first thing I'd do is try a new cap on the coolant bottle (or maybe the whole bottle as they can leak) just to put that one to bed.

 

[Mudz]

thanks mate, really gutted about this car aswell actually really like it

 

[Dyscontinued]

Nice cars. I'm guessing you bought private?

 

[Mudz]

Nice cars. I'm guessing you bought private?

yes mate bought it private,

wel having looked at it once it reaceh 90 degrees, i cheked the pipes and they were pretty hard and you could hear due to pressure the water on the expansion tank leaking out through the overflow, So it looks like hgf,

so how much am i looking fo repair, and what will i need to chage also to prevent it form happening again

 

[Andrewcupra TDI]

to private buyers have any rights ?? surely the owner would have known

 

[Mudz]

to private buyers have any rights ?? surely the owner would have known

when we checked everything before buying seemed fine just on the way home is where the trouble started, no pont bitching about it now whats done is done

 

[Viking]

yes mate bought it private,

wel having looked at it once it reaceh 90 degrees, i cheked the pipes and they were pretty hard and you could hear due to pressure the water on the expansion tank leaking out through the overflow, So it looks like hgf,

so how much am i looking fo repair, and what will i need to chage also to prevent it form happening again

Head gasket swap, and a cambelt kit at the same time (cambelt has to come off anyway so no point not doing it), and you should be good to go. Possibly do the water pump at the same time if you want.

Cost, budget around £500 - £600 at a guess. Whereabouts in the country are you?

 

[Mudz]

Head gasket swap, and a cambelt kit at the same time (cambelt has to come off anyway so no point not doing it), and you should be good to go. Possibly do the water pump at the same time if you want.

Cost, budget around £500 - £600 at a guess. Whereabouts in the country are you?

Lancashire, is it easy to do if you have done similar before, my brother has changed hg on rovers a few times without any probs is there any thing other than the normal to look out for, hes not happy doing it without more info, should it be straight forward with abit of experience and guidance from forums such as this,

 

[Viking]

Rather complicated I'm afraid. There's a fairly straightforward procedure which has to be followed exactly, and then you need a laptop and diagnostic software (Vag Com) to set up the injection timing again. You need to replace certain bolts with new every time you tighten them as they're single use bolts (torque to yield), you need to remove an engine mount and lift the engine, lock the crankshaft, camshaft and injection pump in position with relevant tools, and other minor bits & pieces.

Edit: that's if the overheating hasn't buggered the head in the meantime.

 

[Mudz]

Rather complicated I'm afraid. There's a fairly straightforward procedure which has to be followed exactly, and then you need a laptop and diagnostic software (Vag Com) to set up the injection timing again. You need to replace certain bolts with new every time you tighten them as they're single use bolts (torque to yield), you need to remove an engine mount and lift the engine, lock the crankshaft, camshaft and injection pump in position with relevant tools, and other minor bits & pieces.

Edit: that's if the overheating hasn't buggered the head in the meantime.

right ok just the vag com that i didnt really no about, would it be cheaper and easier to buy a new engine

 

[Mudz]

Rather complicated I'm afraid. There's a fairly straightforward procedure which has to be followed exactly, and then you need a laptop and diagnostic software (Vag Com) to set up the injection timing again. You need to replace certain bolts with new every time you tighten them as they're single use bolts (torque to yield), you need to remove an engine mount and lift the engine, lock the crankshaft, camshaft and injection pump in position with relevant tools, and other minor bits & pieces.

Edit: that's if the overheating hasn't buggered the head in the meantime.

i had a word with my brother and we are going to give it a go, we more or less have all the tools and space, but i am going to keep driveing the car here and there until there are more signs of hgf as currently only the syetm is pressurised

 

[Viking]

The problem there is that by the time things develop more you could be looking at replacing the cylinder head as the overheating will warp it, and by that time it's knackered. Much better to change a faulty head gasket and save major problems later on. Skimming the head is a complicated issue aswell, as it's a flat head. You need to remove the valves, skim some material off, regrind the valves, fit a thicker head gasket (so that the glowplugs / injectors aren't brought any closer to the pistons) instead of just putting in a new gasket.

If it was me I'd have a garage do a sniff test and then just get it done. Certainly as a new owner I'd have the cambelt done straight away anyway, just fr peace of mind. And while you're in there doing the belt, the head gasket is not much further down the line.

 

[Mudz]

The problem there is that by the time things develop more you could be looking at replacing the cylinder head as the overheating will warp it, and by that time it's knackered. Much better to change a faulty head gasket and save major problems later on. Skimming the head is a complicated issue aswell, as it's a flat head. You need to remove the valves, skim some material off, regrind the valves, fit a thicker head gasket (so that the glowplugs / injectors aren't brought any closer to the pistons) instead of just putting in a new gasket.

If it was me I'd have a garage do a sniff test and then just get it done. Certainly as a new owner I'd have the cambelt done straight away anyway, just fr peace of mind. And while you're in there doing the belt, the head gasket is not much further down the line.

thats the thing it doesnt over heat just builds pressure and release water through overflow, changed the cap aswell and removed thrmostat, it has only ever over heated once,

 

[muddyboots]

Might be classic VAG water pump failure ?

The plastic impellers can either break up, or come loose on the shaft.

My last Passat had this failure. During normal driving, the pump still managed to give enough flow and all was well. Any driving that involved prolonged load on the engine or a spurt of hard hillclimbing, and the temp would shoot up, followed by coolant spewing out of the header tank.

The remedy is to replace the water pump, preferably with a metal-impellored version.
It does mean taking the cambelt off (assuming that's the same design on the pre- and post-PD engines), so you might as well do the cambelt at the same time.

When I got the pump out of my Passat, the impeller just span freely on the shaft.
And it had only been on the car for a short time, as I'd replaced it as a precaution at cambelt change time !!!

 

[Mudz]

Might be classic VAG water pump failure ?

The plastic impellers can either break up, or come loose on the shaft.

My last Passat had this failure. During normal driving, the pump still managed to give enough flow and all was well. Any driving that involved prolonged load on the engine or a spurt of hard hillclimbing, and the temp would shoot up, followed by coolant spewing out of the header tank.

The remedy is to replace the water pump, preferably with a metal-impellored version.
It does mean taking the cambelt off (assuming that's the same design on the pre- and post-PD engines), so you might as well do the cambelt at the same time.

When I got the pump out of my Passat, the impeller just span freely on the shaft.
And it had only been on the car for a short time, as I'd replaced it as a precaution at cambelt change time !!!

If i removed the cambelt cover should be able to see it shudnt I?, but i dont think that is what is at fault there is a clear build up of presseure and the pipes are getting harder now and light beeps more often must be hg, although hasnt over heated yet either since the first day

 

[muddyboots]

If i removed the cambelt cover should be able to see it shudnt I?, but i dont think that is what is at fault there is a clear build up of presseure and the pipes are getting harder now and light beeps more often must be hg, although hasnt over heated yet either since the first day

Yes you'd be able to see it - but you wouldn't be able to tell if it was faulty or not, as it's the internal impeller that goes.

Probably not that difficult to change, so long as you can get access to it. I think you'd need to lock the crank & camshaft in position first though, and you'd need to have access to release the cambelt tensioner.

I wouldn't rule the waterpump out - the fact it only overheated on a motorway run but behaves more OK on easier, lower load driving does sound similar to when mine failed.
The fact that it's slowly getting worse could just mean the impeller is starting to spin more freely on the shaft, so you're getting less and less coolant flow.