Latest mod pictures...my hybrid Ibiza - now sold!

[westoncraig]

remember how inaccurate these dynos are though guys! seems to me that for every dyno run people achieve a different result.

i remember a forum member who i will not disclose had great dissapointment when his remapped LCR (calimed 265bhp) achieved 205 on the rollers! heat sink was blamed by the operator!

on a separate occssion on very similar days (conditions) it achieved close to 275bhp!

dynos are good for getting an estimated power figure, but i wouldnt trust them completely! a MEAN reading of all dyno results would achieve a more accurate figure of the power output of the car. claiming the highest figure as the bhp/torque of the car is not a truely accurate description.

 

[rscott4563]

Absolutely agree that dynos can't be used as a complete and accurate measurement of actual power all the time but if used properly then they do give a pretty accurate figure.

First up there are different types of chassis dyno most commonly used; inertia and braked. Inertia seem most often to over read especially on Dervs with there big torque, but braked dynos do seem to be pretty conservative and accurate.

Also I would never trust the power figures given by the dyno of the person/company who have mapped your car, always get them confirmed by another couple of independant dynos who don't know what figure or mods your running.

Alex, I don't your 'high torque, low rpm' arguement really justifies your blanket statements. There are plenty of people running exotic high power high torque cars which have massive bhp and huge lbft figures which seem to be measureable just fine on these dynos, so why would they fall over and start reading incorrectly just because it happens to be a Seat or VW running a hybrid turbo?

Again I don't think you've given a good enough explaination of why a dyno on a given day can dyno 20 different cars and give 18 of them accurate figures and yet the 2 cars with TD hybrids are the only ones to massively over read? They could be dynoing a Evo with 550bhp & 380lbft and yet according to you it's just a VAG with a hybrid that will trip it up?

 

[majesty78]

And remember:
Why should true motorsports companys invest thousands of bucks, weeks, month or even more time in research and development of an Tdi engine creating reliable 240bhp if this all could be done with a stinky turbo and remap?

Are they just boring, or have to much money to spend? Sure...

And as a second, why should the manufacture create own PD nozzles for every power step, when the OEM nozzle is able to flow 100percent over stock? They could easily use the pd 100 nozzle for any engine from 100-160hp if it was like that...but, oh wonder, there is an unique nozzle for almost everyone of them, curious, isnt it?

Best way to KNOW how much power a engine makes is an engine dyno or the file.

Greets, Alex

 

[majesty78]

@rscott4563: my words are not targeted to TD hybrids, its an well known fact under OEM manufactures and also per example known by MAHA, that excessive spiking torque like very often shown on dyno plots create a misleading trail which does up in false readings.


Unless those torque spikes are useless for driveability anyway and do nothing than give extra stress to drivetrain components.

Or do you think you can 'use' a torque spike which appears for only one POINT on the rev band?
These spikings mostly come together with nice boost spiking which let raise cylinder pressure to not very healthy values...

Better have 40Nm less spike and create an constant torque band which makes the car really fast, instead of a short !wow! Illusion of it...

Greets, Alex

 

[rscott4563]

Alex, I couldn't agree more regarding the useability of torque spikes. Much better to have a flat 330lbft than a spike of 380lbft at 2500rpm fro 200rpms and then down to 290lbft for the rest of the range.

But that isn't what this little discussion/argument has been about. You have stated quite definitely that you can't achieve more than 220bhp on a TD hybrid with the standard 150PD injectors. And I think that is where people have issue with your claims and where the whole issue of you claiming no chassis dyno can read the power output of a high torque diesel engined car. Though in reality 350lbft isn't a massive figure in terms of what cars can produce, it may be high for a standard PD150 there are plenty of other cars out there that will also produce those sorts of figures and they seem to dyno okay?

 

[adz2k9]

well, my uncles is having his 535d (no mods) dyno'd in two weeks so we will see what that produces in comparison to what stock figures say.. Once I've mapped my hybrid I will also go to the same dyno (without telling them about mods) and see what figures I achieve.. results should prove interesting

 

[cupra.al]

as intresting as all this talk is lets not forget this is ashs readers ride thread im sure he dont want loads of pages discussing rolling roads and figures in his thread.

 

[majesty78]

The issues come from aggressive power built up which you wont have on a strong stock engine like 535d or per example v8 big blocks...

Greets, Alex

 

[majesty78]

You are right, cupra al!

 

[adz2k9]

as intresting as all this talk is lets not forget this is ashs readers ride thread im sure he dont want loads of pages discussing rolling roads and figures in his thread.

true, sorry ash!

its an interesting debate no doubt but more to the point I dont think it matters if he has 200bhp or 300bhp, if hes happy the way the car drives thats what counts!

 

[adz2k9]

The issues come from aggressive power built up which you wont have on a strong stock engine like 535d or per example v8 big blocks...

Greets, Alex

fair enough but if I can keep up with the 535d when im mapped, will that not indicate I am close to 230-240bhp?

 

[majesty78]

Maybe one of the moderators here could split this discussion up to an new thread...

 

[rscott4563]

Absolutely, if Alex refuses to believe that a 1500bhp capable dyno can handle a 240bhp car then the other completely fool proof method of testing if a hybrid 240bhp/350lbft PD really has got that sort of power is to do 1/4mile, 30-60, 30-100 etc tests against a similar powered stock car. If you keep up or even beat it then you can't argue that can you??

 

[adz2k9]

Absolutely, if Alex refuses to believe that a 1500bhp capable dyno can handle a 240bhp car then the other completely fool proof method of testing if a hybrid 240bhp/350lbft PD really has got that sort of power is to do 1/4mile, 30-60, 30-100 etc tests against a similar powered stock car. If you keep up or even beat it then you can't argue that can you??

thats what I was thinking, but then you have got other differentials such as tyres, state of the car (e.g. any boost leaks etc.) launching will always slow the fwd car down, rolling starts are best but you'd have to find a suitable runway to do it and measure it accuratley..

I know for a fact that turkish's 247bhp RSTuning car was not far from the stated figures as he could outdo a mk4 r32 which was definetley giving it the full beans on a quiet dual carriageway!

 

[majesty78]

fair enough but if I can keep up with the 535d when im mapped, will that not indicate I am close to 230-240bhp?

I think you cant tell in common.

For example, with my 'ONLY' 210hp/420nm i can follow Audi S5 and S4 on highway if its not modified to reach higher v-max, on quarter mile i am almost equal with Audi R8 which has 14.2 elapse time...mine is 14.3

You must not forget weight, gear ratio, aerodynamics and so on...

Greets, Alex

 

[rscott4563]

fair enough but if I can keep up with the 535d when im mapped, will that not indicate I am close to 230-240bhp?

BMW 535D
272bhp
413lbft

So yeah I'd say if your anywhere near then you'd more than prove it!

 

[adz2k9]

BMW 535D
272bhp
413lbft

So yeah I'd say if your anywhere near then you'd more than prove it!

dont forget it weighs quite abit more too..

 

[adz2k9]

I think you cant tell in common.

For example, with my 'ONLY' 210hp/420nm i can follow Audi S5 and S4 on highway if its not modified to reach higher v-max, on quarter mile i am almost equal with Audi R8 which has 14.2 elapse time...mine is 14.3

You must not forget weight, gear ratio, aerodynamics and so on...

Greets, Alex

stock R8 has a 1/4 mile of 12.5 secs from what ive personally seen..

 

[rscott4563]

thats what I was thinking, but then you have got other differentials such as tyres, state of the car (e.g. any boost leaks etc.) launching will always slow the fwd car down, rolling starts are best but you'd have to find a suitable runway to do it and measure it accuratley..

I know for a fact that turkish's 247bhp RSTuning car was not far from the stated figures as he could outdo a mk4 r32 which was definetley giving it the full beans on a quiet dual carriageway!

Well according to Alex, Turkish never had a 247bhp car as it's would defy the laws of physics!

 

[adz2k9]

Well according to Alex, Turkish never had a 247bhp car as it's would defy the laws of physics!

well then the mk4 he raced must have had something wrong with it! and the mk5 R32 that pulled away initially but he slowly edged back and stayed level with, must have been broken too