biodiesel

[stuartsjg]

Hi,

Do you know if the 2GO code means its a rotary pump engine?

There is some confusion as the handbook says it is compatable if its got thr 2GO code, howerver a seat representative says that no seat TDI in the current range is compatable.

I have two areas of concern with using bio and why im not (although would like to) which are the injectors and dpf.

As the active regeneration allows unburnt fuel into the dpf to burn (although is probably a catalytic oxidation recation as opptosed to combustion) there to raise its temperature, its possible that the bio-diesel wont burn properly and lead to poisoning of the catalysts in the filter.

All though the seat traning manuals the only reference to bio is with regards to emissions control. There is never any mention of the damage it can do or negative effects on the system. Even in the DPF sections it just says that the use of bio-diesel makes it impossible to guarantee the emissions will meet the nessessary standards.

Theres what SEAT customer relations says, what tecnical manuals say, what user manuals and what people expereince, none of which seam to match!

 

[SEATgod]

PR code 2GO means you CAN use Bio-diesel (Bio-diesel prep like special filter, fuel heater etc), but none of our current line up will have PR code 2GO!

This is because bio-diesel essentially blocks the intake holes of the injectors and the filter elelment of the DPF.

So, no DPF engine can run on bio-diesel, no PD injector engine can run on bio-diesel, no area where temp is below -10 degrees.

If your vehicle fails because it runs on bio-diesel the claim will be rejected! And, it is obvious.....everything is covered in a waxy coating!

The handbook is generic, it says in the front cover that all items are liable to change, not all models will have all options fitted etc etc!

Bio-diesel died a death very quiuckly because most manufacturers engineered it out very quicky!

Essentially because no one is willing to warrant an engine where ANYBODY can make the fuel!!

If the fuel you are using in your SEAT does not meet BS EN 590 (normal forecourt diesel), the warranty is void!

I hope this helps!

KR

 

[Tuscan_No27]

PR code 2GO means you CAN use Bio-diesel (Bio-diesel prep like special filter, fuel heater etc), but none of our current line up will have PR code 2GO!

This is because bio-diesel essentially blocks the intake holes of the injectors and the filter elelment of the DPF.

So, no DPF engine can run on bio-diesel, no PD injector engine can run on bio-diesel, no area where temp is below -10 degrees.

If your vehicle fails because it runs on bio-diesel the claim will be rejected! And, it is obvious.....everything is covered in a waxy coating!

The handbook is generic, it says in the front cover that all items are liable to change, not all models will have all options fitted etc etc!

Bio-diesel died a death very quiuckly because most manufacturers engineered it out very quicky!

Essentially because no one is willing to warrant an engine where ANYBODY can make the fuel!!

If the fuel you are using in your SEAT does not meet BS EN 590 (normal forecourt diesel), the warranty is void!

I hope this helps!

KR

Not sure I understand why a "special filter" is required. There's nothing special about biodiesel versus forecourt diesel that should require anything different. I've checked my fuel filter and its fine.

My car is a PD engine and runs as normal albeit very slightly reduced power. The reason it is not warranted by SEAT (& other manufacturers) is simply down to your penultimate sentence; anybody can make the fuel. Some will do it properly others will do it badly.

With regards to temperature, its rare we get down to -10 but its easily mitigated by running a mix of forecourt diesel with your bio. Remember, rapeseed methyl-ester has a very low cloud point which helps keep it liquid and has a viscosity very close to that of forecourt diesel so there should be no problems at the injectors.

 

[stuartsjg]

I've been running at 90% this last 2 weeks in freezing temeratures and she's been good as gold. I'm due a service - I go to Just Diesels, Blaydon on Tyne who do a great job. I'm going to ask them to take a look at the head and injectors just out of interest. I'll report back when I've had this done.

Hi Richard,

How did the service go, did the injectors and things check out ok with no probs caused by bio-diesel?

Stuart

 

[Tuscan_No27]

Hi Richard,

How did the service go, did the injectors and things check out ok with no probs caused by bio-diesel?

Stuart

Hi Stuart

Apologies for not updating sooner - found out this week that my missus is pregnant All the more reason now to save on my fuel bills. At least the skiing holiday is paid for.

The service went well but when I asked them how easy it would be to check the injectors they said it would be several hours work (=£££) so I figured I don't need to know that badly. They did comment however that the car appears to be in great nick and runs well so thats good enough for me, and I invested in a timing belt change instead.

By the way we had -5degC here a couple of weeks ago and I had some bio outside in a plastic container - amazingly it stayed liquid, albeit slightly more viscous, but the stuff in the jerry can in the shed was perfectly thin. Quite reassuring. I still dilute with dino-diesel in these conditions to be on the safe side and had no problems.

So are you convinced or still worried ? If it helps, before I was clued up in the chemistry of biodiesel i did try some straight oil in my car at around 25% and it still ran fine so these VAG engines are pretty damn good in my opinion.... but now I know better, I wouldn't dream of putting straight oil in again.

Merry Xmas to you all & and even merrier Hogmanay to you Stu !

Richard

 

[tomn5518]

hi all,can i make my own biodiesel and run my fr 170 on it straight 100%?
i have heard all sorts of different views but am well up for a saving if its ok to use.
i know you should change the fuel filter a couple weeks after the switch in fuel but is that the only problem or change?

 

[/dev/null]

hi all,can i make my own biodiesel and run my fr 170 on it straight 100%?
i have heard all sorts of different views but am well up for a saving if its ok to use.
i know you should change the fuel filter a couple weeks after the switch in fuel but is that the only problem or change?

Unless you're an expert and know what you're doing then I would say no. It might save you a few quid at first but it'll soon hit you in the ass when you have to fork out for an engine re-build, lol!

 

[seremotors]

Unless you're an expert and know what you're doing then I would say no. It might save you a few quid at first but it'll soon hit you in the ass when you have to fork out for an engine re-build, lol!

NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I cant understand the fixation with this stuff - if I wanted tuppence a week running costs Id be on a bicycle!!! Not worth the risk of wrecking a good engine.

 

[Tuscan_No27]

NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I cant understand the fixation with this stuff - if I wanted tuppence a week running costs Id be on a bicycle!!! Not worth the risk of wrecking a good engine.

I'm saving £50+ per week running on homemade bio in my FR so what's not to like about that !!!! The only downside over the last 14000 miles is the time it takes to make it - but its a small sacrifice. Its also very satisfying knowing that for every litre I pour in my tank, I'm not giving Gordon B a single penny in tax.

In fact that works out at around £1200 I've not spent at fuel stations since using bio !

 

[seremotors]

I'm saving £50+ per week running on homemade bio in my FR so what's not to like about that !!!! The only downside over the last 14000 miles is the time it takes to make it - but its a small sacrifice. Its also very satisfying knowing that for every litre I pour in my tank, I'm not giving Gordon B a single penny in tax.

In fact that works out at around £1200 I've not spent at fuel stations since using bio !

FR Mk1 or Mk2 out of interest?

 

[/dev/null]

I'm saving £50+ per week running on homemade bio in my FR so what's not to like about that !!!! The only downside over the last 14000 miles is the time it takes to make it - but its a small sacrifice. Its also very satisfying knowing that for every litre I pour in my tank, I'm not giving Gordon B a single penny in tax.

In fact that works out at around £1200 I've not spent at fuel stations since using bio !

Rather you than me mate! It'll cost you a lot more than £1200 to sort it out when it goes boom!

 

[Chan_P1_TDi_FR]

Some of the engine seals are not designed for 100% biodiesel. It's only a matter of time before something pops. Some engines can have a biodiesel conversion where the vulnerable components are changed to withstand chemical reactions from biodiesel. I would like to save some money on fuel, but i'm not will to foot the cost of repair when something goes wrong. The dealer will find out some way or another the car was running on high strength biodiesel.

 

[SpursMadDave]

If you cant afford diesel then buy a G-Wizz!

 

[Rampage]

I'm saving £50+ per week running on homemade bio in my FR so what's not to like about that !!!! The only downside over the last 14000 miles is the time it takes to make it - but its a small sacrifice. Its also very satisfying knowing that for every litre I pour in my tank, I'm not giving Gordon B a single penny in tax.

In fact that works out at around £1200 I've not spent at fuel stations since using bio !

You should be paying tax if your producing that much, might be an idea not to mention it on a public forum!

 

[Tuscan_No27]

FR Mk1 or Mk2 out of interest?

Mine's an FR Mk1 - completely out of warranty and now serviced by a diesel engine specialist (sorry). The guy who owns the garage reckons my engine is in great nick. As long as he keep saying that, I'll carry on making & using biodiesel because there's no physical or dynamic hint of impending doom.

 

[Tuscan_No27]

You should be paying tax if your producing that much, might be an idea not to mention it on a public forum!

Not anymore - since June 2007 you're allowed to make and use 2500 litres per person per year. Prior to this you had to declare how much you used and send the Inland Revenue a cheque for 28p / litre or thereabouts. I had several discussions with the Environment Agency as well before emarbking on this - they are encouraging people to make bio and have made private biodiesel production excempt from waste licencing rules (within reason).

 

[Chan_P1_TDi_FR]

you said you save £50+ per week, using your home made biodiesel. that works out at £2600+ or fuel a year. working out at about 2600+ litres a year at current diesel prices. unless you calculations are for when diesel was at £1.32, then your going to be producing more than the tax exemption threshold.

Having said that, is £2600 enough to buy a new engine? things will be fine now. it's like corrosion, you bio-diesel will be very slowly eating away at some components in the engine.

Btw are the PD Tdi fuel pumps made by bosch, these are slightly better at handling biodiesel.

I love my car too much to take risks with using homemade biodiesel. i'll be sticking to paying stupendous taxes on fuel until a better solutions comes about.

 

[seremotors]

Mine's an FR Mk1 - completely out of warranty and now serviced by a diesel engine specialist (sorry). The guy who owns the garage reckons my engine is in great nick. As long as he keep saying that, I'll carry on making & using biodiesel because there's no physical or dynamic hint of impending doom.

obviously its working for you, but anything newer is a whoooooole different ball game

 

[Tuscan_No27]

obviously its working for you, but anything newer is a whoooooole different ball game

Why ?

I'm not being argumentative - you maybe right but I'd like to hear factual reasons otherwise its just an opinion. I'm an engineer by profession in the chemical industry so have a reasonable grasp of machines, materials and chemical processes. IMHO I can't think of anything that would prevent any diesel engine running on biodiesel.

So if there is a good reason why the Mk2 Leon can't run on bio then I'd like to know because it would be the only reason I wouldn't trade up from my Mk1 - Seat has been good to me.

 

[Tuscan_No27]

you said you save £50+ per week, using your home made biodiesel. that works out at £2600+ or fuel a year. working out at about 2600+ litres a year at current diesel prices. unless you calculations are for when diesel was at £1.32, then your going to be producing more than the tax exemption threshold.

I get 5 weeks holiday a year and go abroad without my car

Having said that, is £2600 enough to buy a new engine? things will be fine now. it's like corrosion, you bio-diesel will be very slowly eating away at some components in the engine.

Shouldn't do - there's nothing corrosive about biodiesel - the methanol should be washed out and then any residual water removed by drying if you're processing your bio properly so that you're left with top quality biodiesel which is just methyl-ester. Some materials like natural rubber do eventually degrade with prolonged exposure to 100% methyl-ester but the majority of elastomers after 1993 are synthetic materials and have better resistance. Most of the time biodiesel users are running on a blend of dino-diesel and bio so the any affects are further minimised.

Btw are the PD Tdi fuel pumps made by bosch, these are slightly better at handling biodiesel.

I've heard this too - in Germany they have been pro-biodiesel for much longer than us. The Bosch pumps can also take much more viscous fuel like straigh veg oil in some of the older engines - like old Mercedes ?

I love my car too much to take risks with using homemade biodiesel. i'll be sticking to paying stupendous taxes on fuel until a better solutions comes about.

Me too - it runs on biodiesel without problem - whats not to love.