MK1 Leon GT2x Build - thats it folks

[jamiebennett81]

Jamie sorry to be the barer of bad news again
If the bolt is taking that long to come out the threads will be gaulled.
This will mean re tapping the threads if its a bolt hole or removing the stud if its a stud

yeah I was thinking that mate

I am in no rush at the moment anyway as it cant be put back together until the tabs arrive from INA

still its in AMD's very capable hands so see what they say. Simon is a top guy and always does a top job

failing all of this....BT here we come (I only say that because I will probably want more power after all of this!)

 

[jamiebennett81]

well the car is still sitting at AMD at present and will be off the road for at least another week while parts arrive

at what cost I dont know. Either way it's going to be a good £500-700 at my expense due to a poorly fitted manifold in the first place, but I wont be seeing a penny of that being returned from the original fitter.....

so due to the kit being slung on, I am now paying for it (this ring a bell with the out of pocket issues Caveo is having with his clutch right now.....)

will it ever be fixed, will it ever run right, F**K knows!!

 

[ibizacupra]

ATP kit is not quality kit.. from what I see & does not fit well nor perform well.

Supplying your own sourced parts for to someone to fit is not without some element of responsibility to you for supplying parts which were not of correct fitment or quality. (not a dig at you as you dont know any better, buying what you are told is what you need)

"slung on" sounds harsh on whoever fitted it.

Personally I am VERY wary of people asking me to "just fit their bits", "its all there", "it will be ok they told me", "it will make me 290bhp" etc etc

Who will get the blame when those parts dont fit, its not all there and needs extra parts (at an additional cost & time), it wont be ok or have any supplier/manufacturer support or warranty moreover when they are on a different contenent, as its most likely to them 'fitment error', and finally when it does'nt make the desired (as claimed when sold) power, it must be the crap mapping, crap installation etc etc and the sucker who undertook this all, gets the bulk of the blame.



Not an unusual scenario described above

 

[jamiebennett81]

ATP kit is not quality kit.. from what I see & does not fit well nor perform well.

Supplying your own sourced parts for to someone to fit is not without some element of responsibility to you for supplying parts which were not of correct fitment or quality. (not a dig at you as you dont know any better, buying what you are told is what you need)

"slung on" sounds harsh on whoever fitted it.

Personally I am VERY wary of people asking me to "just fit their bits", "its all there", "it will be ok they told me", "it will make me 290bhp" etc etc

Who will get the blame when those parts dont fit, its not all there and needs extra parts (at an additional cost & time), it wont be ok or have any supplier/manufacturer support or warranty moreover when they are on a different contenent, as its most likely to them 'fitment error', and finally when it does'nt make the desired (as claimed when sold) power, it must be the crap mapping, crap installation etc etc and the sucker who undertook this all, gets the bulk of the blame.



Not an unusual scenario described above

Bill - it was not rocket science, the bolts never locked in properly onto the nuts, so they were bound to come loose

this is by no other means the fault of the company who fitted this.

If they were not long enough, then why did they not pick up on this?

why did they not call me and state they were not long enough?

why did they not recommend and source some better longer bolts themselves as they "agreed" to fit the kit?

if they are experienced tuners and fitters of turbo kits, then they should have made me aware of the situation or issue, but chose not too - why?

some very simple, reasonable questions their that I have stated dont you agree?

why half do a job, instead of setting the customers expectations, telling them the truth, laying out the issues and then working together on a solution so the kit is fitted first time, right time

none of this I was told, so I think I am completely right in what I have stated so far

 

[ibizacupra]

Bill - it was not rocket science, the bolts never locked in properly onto the nuts, so they were bound to come loose

this is by no other means the fault of the company who fitted this.

If they were not long enough, then why did they not pick up on this?

why did they not call me and state they were not long enough?

why did they not recommend and source some better longer bolts themselves as they "agreed" to fit the kit?

if they are experienced tuners and fitters of turbo kits, then they should have made me aware of the situation or issue, but chose not too - why?

some very simple, reasonable questions their that I have stated dont you agree?

why half do a job, instead of setting the customers expectations, telling them the truth, laying out the issues and then working together on a solution so the kit is fitted first time, right time

none of this I was told, so I think I am completely right in what I have stated so far

First I have seen you mention bolts were "the bolts never locked in properly onto the nuts" - I must have missed that

Are you saying the bolts were too short to the locking part of the nuts had'nt engaged? and not spotted.. which is a woops.

Who supplied those bolts?
Who supplied the hose which rubbed through?

Seems there mystake was trying to make a silk purse out of a sows ear and not saying so and not fixing it with better components whilst keeping you informed of progress and problems. I do recall you posting that the fitment was not straight forward at some stage so there must have been updates as you posted updates on the thread. Its ATP, its fitment issues are inevitable given their shite quality.

The point is, the parts were supplied by you I believe. Fitted by the garage you wanted & chose to do the job. Some miles later the problems occur, you drove out knowing the requested boost could'nt be achieved so all was not well from the beginning. You take it to another place. Would have been better to get garage #1 to rectify the issues I would have thought.

Its all very fragmented from how it reads.

if they are experienced tuners and fitters of turbo kits

Are they?

 

[jamiebennett81]

First I have seen you mention bolts were "the bolts never locked in properly onto the nuts" - I must have missed that

Are you saying the bolts were too short to the locking part of the nuts had'nt engaged? and not spotted.. which is a woops.

Who supplied those bolts?
Who supplied the hose which rubbed through?

Seems there mystake was trying to make a silk purse out of a sows ear and not saying so and not fixing it with better components whilst keeping you informed of progress and problems. I do recall you posting that the fitment was not straight forward at some stage so there must have been updates as you posted updates on the thread. Its ATP, its fitment issues are inevitable given their shite quality.

The point is, the parts were supplied by you I believe. Fitted by the garage you wanted & chose to do the job. Some miles later the problems occur, you drove out knowing the requested boost could'nt be achieved so all was not well from the beginning. You take it to another place. Would have been better to get garage #1 to rectify the issues I would have thought.

Its all very fragmented from how it reads.



Are they?

First I have seen you mention bolts were "the bolts never locked in properly onto the nuts" - I must have missed that

nope, never locked in properly. They would have never of been from the first place as they were not long enough, so of course the inevitable happened

Are you saying the bolts were too short to the locking part of the nuts had'nt engaged? and not spotted.. which is a woops.

big whoops Bill, which is why I am in this $hit now and down a further £500 at least

Who supplied those bolts?
JBS i believe if its the three bolts from the flange onto the manifold
Who supplied the hose which rubbed through?
hose supplied from ATP, but nothing to do with the hose, this was not fitted properly either and just left hanging against the drive shaft and of course rubbed through and started leaking - purely down to poor fitment Quality of product supplied from ATP was fine (it's a braided hose!!)

Seems there mystake was trying to make a silk purse out of a sows ear and not saying so and not fixing it with better components whilst keeping you informed of progress and problems. I do recall you posting that the fitment was not straight forward at some stage so there must have been updates as you posted updates on the thread. Its ATP, its fitment issues are inevitable given their shite quality.

fitment was due to some routing of pipes etc, but nothing major....but that thats all I was told Bill despite asking, so I can only ask so much and expect an informative and honest answer which from seeing the issues I am now having, I clearly did not receive this level of information - a prime example of this is there was a slight fitment issue with the braided hose in the ends did not not 100% but chose not to tell me. If they had told me the threads on the braided hose did not fit very well, then I could have at least replaced this when I got back down south - this however does not excuse the hose hanging down and rubbing through

The point is, the parts were supplied by you I believe. Fitted by the garage you wanted & chose to do the job. Some miles later the problems occur, you drove out knowing the requested boost could'nt be achieved so all was not well from the beginning. You take it to another place. Would have been better to get garage #1 to rectify the issues I would have thought.

Its all very fragmented from how it reads.



you would think I would take it back to garage one, but why would I having seen what a $hit job of fitment was done in the first place i.e. hose left hanging against drive shaft and rubbing through! with such a horrific fitment foopar as that, why would I want to take it back to them to fix it, when they could not even install such a basic hose in the first place? hardly inspires confidence does it?

unfortunately the garage was very far away, so I did not have this option of travelling back and fourth there as it was costing a fortune.....but you would presume it would all be done correctly in the first place

also, which you have directly questioned Will yourself on this matter, to check the actuator and if the setting is correct, which is what I still believe is why it is not boosting enough due to the actuator needing to be adjusted. You questioned Will over this and never got an answer - showing a basic level of incompetence to checking the basics of a turbo not operating properly (in the sense of the actuator being wound shut) which of course can be adjusted and the problem quickly rectified which hopefully you can investigate for me at some point

Are they?

you know as well as I do Bill, that you go with a tuner, based on reputation, word of mouth, and from other threads based on good customer satisfaction, and on these aspects is why I chose P-Torque.......but you know all too quickly that just one job can be done badly, and then its a domino effect of issues afterwards with the installed product

there is nothing more I could do in this situation is there - choosing to spend my money on a company based on a good customer service reputation only for it to turn out quite badly - that is an aspect solely out of my control and only something which could only be rectified once the car was back in my hands. Of course on first impressions it all seemed fine, but the car lasted about a 1000 miles if that, which is the true test of a good install. Sadly in this case it is not, and I am now at the stage where the car and its engine are showing up the poor work carried out to fit the kit (I state POOR FITMENT and not the kit)

 

[Leigh15]

It's difficult to get a truely accurate pciture of what's happened here from reading the thread, but it does sound like you've not actually given P-Torque any opportunity to sort out the problems with the turbo.

I can understand that travelling back and forward to them carries a cost, but surely it's not going to cost you £500-£700 in fuel that you're quoting to get the issue solved at AMD?

It does seem a little harsh to be slating P-Torque for not sorting this on the forum, when, on the face of it here, it seems you've not given them any opportunity to sort out the problems for you or even phoned them up to discuss options.

 

[RobDon]

It's a JBS manifold too, not ATP, plus leaving a hose rubbing against a driveshaft is plain shoddy workmanship and dangerous too, that's a fitting issue not a product quality issue, as is lack of communication if things were not fitting right. Bill's looking at this from a tuners perspective but from the customers POV it's been badly fitted - plain to see from everything Jamie and AMD have found.

ATP quality isn't THAT shocking - mine lasted 2 years before any issues, now CRT have rebuilt the turbo it's better than ever now (sorry Jamie!).

 

[traumapat]

i think theres lots to be said in going with the tuners reccomendations... how many of these turbos had the fitters fitted? its just a turbo kit but is it one there used to?

however hose rubbing against driveshaft is hugely concerning... having spent a fortune myself on conversion , and having comments everytime its on a ramp about the workmanship quality being so high, this thread leaves a bad taste.

 

[DPJ]

I fitted my own ATP kit and it's well documented. I'm getting the best out of it and it's reliable thousands of miles and 12 months on.

I had to source a lot of misc fixtures and fittings. I'm no mechanical superstar, but I took great care in ensuring everything was assembled properly with fittings torqued correctly and so on.

If I had taken my car to a professional, I would have expected similar (or better) meticulous care in their workmanship. I would have expected them to advise me of anything they thought unsuitable.

I take Bill's point about fitters using the fixings they have been supplied with, but IMO correctly torqued nuts and bolts rarely come undone. The lock fittings Issam is providing are a good belt-and-braces, nice-to-have solution, but there must be hundreds of fully functional bt applications running without them. If the bolts were too short, how could they have been torqued up correctly??? This part of the tale doesn't sit well alongside the part about a bolt that won't undo now without snapping.....

 

[Willie]

I fail to see how a fitter worth his salt would fit a piece of kit he wasn't happy with just because it was the one supplied.
And a bolt that wasn't long enough, thats shocking.
As DPJ said you'd like to think someone would take the same care of your install as you would, but obviously not in this situation.
Hope the rest of the story goes better than the start Jamie.

 

[jamiebennett81]

It's difficult to get a truely accurate pciture of what's happened here from reading the thread, but it does sound like you've not actually given P-Torque any opportunity to sort out the problems with the turbo.

I can understand that travelling back and forward to them carries a cost, but surely it's not going to cost you £500-£700 in fuel that you're quoting to get the issue solved at AMD?

It does seem a little harsh to be slating P-Torque for not sorting this on the forum, when, on the face of it here, it seems you've not given them any opportunity to sort out the problems for you or even phoned them up to discuss options.

to be honest the point I am at now I have every right to be slating P-Torque

the split hose rubbing against the drive shaft caused a coolant leak and a visit to the garage - £80 charge later for poor workmanship which had to be fixed by AMD

2nd trip to garage with leaky manifold to turbo - whats the cost? around £500 so far and a car which has been off the road for two weeks

P-Torque had every oppurtunity. All Will said was he could not get it to hold to 1.4 bar and handed me the car back. he did not do any diagnostics on the turbo i.e. checking the actuator is working correctly, which from a comment made earlier from Bill, this is a very simple thing to check and quoting directly from Bill again, any tuner worth his weight in expertise should be able to spot and diagnose this, but he didn't

on what defence does P-Torque have? please do tell me. I was misinformed about the kit fitting and not even told about the braided hose not fitting correctly which caused me further expense later down the line and the use of public transport, adding an hour to my journey and causing further inconvenience which was totally uneccessary due to bad workmanship

based on that key aspect, would you want to take it back to a garage who cant even fit a braided hose properly? no you wouldnt, because you would have no confidence in them at all, despite distance, I am taking it back now to a proper tuner who knows what they are doing and I have that level of trust in them that they will do the job first time round and correctly.

It's a JBS manifold too, not ATP, plus leaving a hose rubbing against a driveshaft is plain shoddy workmanship and dangerous too, that's a fitting issue not a product quality issue, as is lack of communication if things were not fitting right. Bill's looking at this from a tuners perspective but from the customers POV it's been badly fitted - plain to see from everything Jamie and AMD have found.

ATP quality isn't THAT shocking - mine lasted 2 years before any issues, now CRT have rebuilt the turbo it's better than ever now (sorry Jamie!).

thanks Rob, couldn't agree more

i think theres lots to be said in going with the tuners reccomendations... how many of these turbos had the fitters fitted? its just a turbo kit but is it one there used to?

however hose rubbing against driveshaft is hugely concerning... having spent a fortune myself on conversion , and having comments everytime its on a ramp about the workmanship quality being so high, this thread leaves a bad taste.

I hear what you are saying, but lets not get hung of too much on "if its a kit they have fitted before" - what they have clearly failed to do is even surpass the basics of fitting a turbo and did not correctly fit the manifold to the turbo and the bolts which hold this together

in any turbo, regardless of what kit it is, ensuring the bolts and nuts are locked into place is just plain common sense and the basics of putting it together. how do i know this? as mentioned before, the bolts were never long enough, but still they ploughed ahead, hoping it would hold and work fine, which it didn't - complete cowboy IMO and there is no other excuse around this

I fitted my own ATP kit and it's well documented. I'm getting the best out of it and it's reliable thousands of miles and 12 months on.

I had to source a lot of misc fixtures and fittings. I'm no mechanical superstar, but I took great care in ensuring everything was assembled properly with fittings torqued correctly and so on.

If I had taken my car to a professional, I would have expected similar (or better) meticulous care in their workmanship. I would have expected them to advise me of anything they thought unsuitable.

I take Bill's point about fitters using the fixings they have been supplied with, but IMO correctly torqued nuts and bolts rarely come undone. The fittings Issam is providing are a good belt-and-braces, nice-to-have solution, but there must be hundreds of fully functional bt applications running without them. If the bolts were too short, how were they torqued up correctly??? This part of the tale doesn't sit well alongside the part about a bolt that won't undo now without snapping.....

completely agree, that ATP is not the best kit, but backed up by Rob he has had very little issues for 2 years and yes a few parts of the kit do have to be replaced with better parts. AMD commented the actual kit seems fine, its just these issues that have been highlighted now which are causing me a lot of grief

and I agree again, that if you take it to a professional, a sponsor of this forum I may add, who "did" have a good reputation to me at one point (not now) then you would expect the kit to be fitted correctly, or if not, then to be told about ALL the issue instead of hiding them, only for me to find out further down the line

and Dave, they could have never of been torqued up correctly, as when AMD pulled them out, no matter what level of torqueing could have been done, they were simply not long enough

in essence this has been a long and hard path, due to being let down solely by one tuner. Disappointment and anger does not even begin to come close to how I feel right now. having spent a lot of money with them, I am still shedding more money to fix a job which was not done right the first time round

I know Will or P-Torque are reading this thread.

what makes it even funnier is when I picked up the car, I was not handed the parts back i.e. turbo, old manifold etc. (I completely forgot about it....as you do when you pick up and are all starry eye'd with the car and more power)

when I got back I realised this, so I asked Will to send them onto me. this I sense was done at some disgruntlement, but Will stated "seeing as I have had so many issues with the car lately, he would post it back free of charge"

well gee, thanks....am I supposed to be grateful? grateful not to pay postage costs on getting MY kit back, and for being grateful to fix a bloody issue such as the braided hose line which was never fitted correctly in the first place! so from the money saved from not having to pay for getting my kit back, I can then put towards fixing an issue P-Torque created in the first place

that for me is an absolute joke!

 

[caveo]

I dont see P-torque commenting any more.....says alot doesnt it!

 

[pdcupra]

cant see why they would want to comment on here - it just gets into a huge slagging match between customer and dealer and makes it even worse. I dont believe stuff like this should ever be talked on here like this in this much detail - its what the PM system is for.

 

[Damoegan]

on what defence does P-Torque have?

I'm not saying it is a defence but I think it is a separate compant that Will uses to do all the fitting side of things and he just does the mapping.

 

[jamiebennett81]

cant see why they would want to comment on here - it just gets into a huge slagging match between customer and dealer and makes it even worse. I dont believe stuff like this should ever be talked on here like this in this much detail - its what the PM system is for.

completely disagree

if I had made it personal, as in calling names etc, then I think that is inappropriate, but to state fact on what has happened I think is totally fair

why let other people on this forum be mislead for the positive services provided by a tuner when a customer like myself has been let down by that company

this is a build thread and I am perfectly in my right to state every stage of it

I feel I have every right to publish my issues, story and the company who has so far caused them

unfortunately on this topic, and speaking with Will, we will have to disagree to agree on this one

I don't see me being compensated do you? costs of labour being paid back to me? no. and in that instance it warrants even more of a reason to publish the issues caused with my car, due to lack of compensation to soften the disappointing issues with my car

 

[jamiebennett81]

I'm not saying it is a defence but I think it is a separate compant that Will uses to do all the fitting side of things and he just does the mapping.

so that is an excuse is it? weren't me guv? P-Torque provide a service as a "whole"...being the key word there, mapping AND fitting is included as the whole charge and is what is included under the company name of P-Torque on the invoice.

Will oversee's the whole job, and to shift blame onto the fitting part is unacceptable, as it is still being traded under the name of P-Torque

I think this has carried on long enough. Issues have been stated, its upset people, but so? I have posted the facts, and make of it what you will

moving forward now, I just have to get the car back on the road

 

[DPJ]

I have to agree.

Jamie has not slated the original installer in this thread and it would seen he did try to get it resolved off-forum.

 

[P-torque.co.uk]

Hi Guys,

I have stayed in contact via private pm's as i have learnt from experience public forums just go round in circles with these things. The fact I am posting now will just add more fuel, but I want to be fair to those who think I should post.

We have fitted plenty of Backdraft kits without 1 issue. When we are not supplying a kit, we fit we are given, we already had to adjust the poor parts supplied with the kit (which ridiculous in itself) this was done free of charge.

If we had called the customer about everything we were not happy with, then, with all due respect, he would have ended up buying a different kit by the time everything had been improved to the quality we expect. Its easy to blame the fitters, but I wonder how well it would have gone down if we said, ''this kit is poor and you need to spend another £3000.00'' We just can't work like that as I am sure you will appreciate. The kit supplied is cheap for a reason, and we expect the customer to understand this, not to expect us to start changing the parts of the kit to make it a better one

Rest assured, from now on we will only offer Backdraft kits. They are more expensive for a reason.

Many tuners refuse to take on cheaper thrown together kits for this very reason, and from now on so shall we.

Its always a matter of time before blame gets thrown about, especially when a competitor tuner is introduced.

Shame we were not given the chance to have the car back to check

 

[caney]

Shame we were not given the chance to have the car back to check

2 sides to this really then? Will, hindsights a wonderful thing mate but tbh you should of looked at the kit and made the decision not to get involved if you thought there were fitting issues?Unfortunately once you've agreed to do it then you are legally obliged to rectify the problems whether you like it or not.Lesson learnt i guess,also the customer should of given you the chance to put it right albeit an inconvenience to himself.i had a very similar scenario with Vagtech who i used for 2 years with no problems.Needless to say that went pear shaped and we don't talk anymoreAs an example: i supply and fit floorcoverings but would never fit anything i was unsure of or wouldn't look right.If i did and the customer wasn't happy then i would take full resposibility as i'd commited myself to do it!
Steve