Missing power

[T7ODD]

Right. I wound it right in. Car seems to go much better. From early testing, according to my gauge. I just saw 15psi creep to 17psi before dropping to 11psi at redline (in 3rd). Does this point to a weak actuator spring then or am I overworking the turbo now (excuse my ignorance again!)
I'm presuming that I'm not forcing this boost pressure IF there IS another fault like a blockage somewhere.
I know on other cars people will adjust the actuator to get more boost or put in a bleed valve so you can open that instead of adjusting the actuator (effectively what the N75 valve is doing). I imagine the car is mapped to where the factory actuator should be sitting but I guess if mine is weak then it wont get the required boost. I'm confusing myself here! lol I guess I need to look at the N75 duty on the logs now I've moved the actuator.

Any ideas why it boosts to a certain level and then decides to get another couple of psi before dropping off again to redline? It did this before too. Could be the gauge I guess.
I'll do some proper vag-com logs later tonight and post up.
Many thanks.

 

[PhilW]

You really should be doing the adjustments with vag com. Your gettin some serious timing pull which i'd be lookin at what to do first before sorting the boost out. Difficult thing with a duff cat is its impossible to check without taking it off.

By 'cranking' the wastegate you are working it harder than it should be, but you should keep an eye on 118 to see how hard its working along with your actual boost.

I'd even look at putting lemmiwinks on your laptop and widing back the timing a few degrees to stop the knock along with some decent petrol.

 

[T7ODD]

OK, where can I get hold of 'Lemmiwinks' or 'Custom Settings' please?
The laptop I use has VAG-COM 311 with an official ISO-COM serial lead.
What's the chance of it working with the software to retard the timing please?

PS. Now full of Optimax which I'll be running from now on - see what happens.

PPS. Wasn't Lemmiwinks the class pet gerbil in "The Death Camp of Tolerance" (episode 614 of South Park) who traversed the regions of Mr Slave's bowels, receiving advice from a series of animal spirits who have already died there (there was also a song) pmsl... see...

 

[jsparks]

okay. Ive got one for you.

Id say your cat was blocked looking at them timing pulls. b

this is nothing to do with boost, this is a serious problem. Or you have 4 duff coils and some seriously wrong plugs in. if you look at the way the timing pull stays, its almost as if your car cant get the gasses out, so its pulling your ignition back.

What Downpipe do you have?

 

[jsparks]

	428.68	3200	98.5	12.3	62.03	428.97	1.5	0	3	2.3
	429.28	3400	156.4	19.68	114.39	429.57	0.8	0	2.3	1.5
	429.87	3680	182.7	22.96	130.22	430.17	3	6	4.5	6
	430.48	3920	185	23.37	136.56	430.78	6	6	4.5	6
	431.08	4200	179.7	22.96	146.28	431.48	6	6	4.5	6
	431.78	4480	175.9	22.96	148.33	432.08	6	6	4.5	6
	432.38	4680	172.2	22.96	153.14	432.68	6	8.3	4.5	6
	432.98	4880	166.9	22.14	156.28	433.28	6	8.3	3.8	5.3
	433.58	5080	160.2	21.73	154.92	433.88	5.3	8.3	3.8	5.3
	434.18	4680	23.3	1.23	0	434.58	3.8	6.8	2.3	3.8
	434.87	4000	130.1	17.63	118.19	435.18	2.3	5.3	3.8	2.3
	435.48	4120	172.9	23.37	139.72	435.78	2.3	6	3.8	2.3
	436.08	4240	175.9	23.37	142.53	436.38	5.3	6.8	3.8	2.3
	436.67	4400	175.9	23.37	146.83	436.98	5.3	6.8	6.8	2.3
	437.27	4520	173.7	23.37	148.89	437.57	5.3	6.8	6.8	2.3

MAF Was reading fine, as the air was passing the airfilter the same, just the engine was pulling back. Apparently when you have timing pull of 9 or more it becomes audible, imagine how i felt!

 

[T7ODD]

okay. Ive got one for you.

Id say your cat was blocked looking at them timing pulls. b

this is nothing to do with boost, this is a serious problem. Or you have 4 duff coils and some seriously wrong plugs in. if you look at the way the timing pull stays, its almost as if your car cant get the gasses out, so its pulling your ignition back.

What Downpipe do you have?

Thank you. Downpipe and cat are standard. Car's done 48k. I just have a cat-back system.
Do you think the blockage would be obvious if the centre section is removed or will it have to be taken off from the turbo too to inspect?

I've had coil packs go in the past which have been replaced. Plugs were done around April. Unsure if the gap could be incorrect. NGK ones from GSF which were apparently correct.

 

[jsparks]

	881.63	3800	184.2	23.37	134.17	881.93	6	5.3	0.8	5.3
	882.22	4000	183.5	23.37	139.83	882.52	6	5.3	0.8	5.3
	882.82	4160	178.9	22.96	140.78	883.13	6	4.5	3.8	4.5
	883.51	3280	9	1.23	0.78	883.92	0	0	0	0
	884.22	3320	33.8	4.1	24.08	884.52	6	5.3	3.8	5.3
	884.82	3320	101.5	13.12	69.5	885.22	4.5	3.8	2.3	3.8
	885.52	3360	66.2	9.02	44.31	885.81	1.5	0.8	0	0.8
	886.12	3440	157.1	21.32	114.53	886.51	3.8	3.8	0	0.8
	886.81	3560	182	24.6	124.81	887.11	3.8	6.8	6	3.8
	887.41	3680	184.2	25.01	130.39	887.72	6.8	6.8	9	6.8
	888.12	3760	179.7	24.19	131.61	888.42	6.8	9.8	9	6.8

just some ideas for you, I wasnt under full load on these, even at low rpm/low load it was still pulling silly numbers. I tried everything to fix it, changed to a nice large downpipe with a good cat from stock and it solved it

 

[jsparks]

Thank you. Downpipe and cat are standard. Car's done 48k. I just have a cat-back system.
Do you think the blockage would be obvious if the centre section is removed or will it have to be taken off from the turbo too to inspect?

My honeycombs were folded ! but the issue might be in the middle, if you can afford a larger DP, try and get yourself a 3" one, or a 2.75" blueflame 100cell cat too!
p.s mine had done 30k

Look at the comparison (not our exhaust but just like it) look where the manifold joint is, and where your shoving alot of power through a small cup which then does into a thin pipe into a 400cell cat. The blueflame is alot larger and strighter than the miltek shown in the picture, but you get the idea.

 

[T7ODD]

My honeycombs were folded ! but the issue might be in the middle, if you can afford a larger DP, try and get yourself a 3" one, or a 2.75" blueflame 100cell cat too!
p.s mine had done 30k

Can't afford it to be honest and I need to sell the car due to expanding family. Dread to think how much a standard downpipe/cat is. Cheapest option would be to have the cat removed but then it's not legal. I wonder if anyone has a working OEM for sale.
I'm sure I've logged previously with hardly any timing pull though. I guess it could be advanced timing on the revised map. I'll contact the mapper to ask. Would it pull the timing if the actuator wasn't in the correct place though??? Just a thought!
The MAF is pulling decent figures which indicate at the 210bhp mark but it's not getting that. It's getting the air but like you say there could be a blockage. My induction kit sucks very loudly under load. If the gasses can't escape I guess they come back from the turbo and out the air filter?

 

[jsparks]

im not sure where the gasses go, but my MAF was reading the full 155g/s for stage 1, boost was hitting normal too, not holding for long though.

And you wouldnt be the first, i know of loads who have had blocked cats, you might want to put a wanted post up fella. Or get powerflow to cut you a new cat into your downpipe? Lots of options. Hope this helps.

 

[T7ODD]

im not sure where the gasses go, but my MAF was reading the full 155g/s for stage 1, boost was hitting normal too, not holding for long though.

And you wouldnt be the first, i know of loads who have had blocked cats, you might want to put a wanted post up fella. Or get powerflow to cut you a new cat into your downpipe? Lots of options. Hope this helps.

Cheers. I've never seen requested boost though. My head hurts

 

[T7ODD]

Drum roll please.....

Group A:	'115				Group B:	'118		
RPM	Load	Request	Actual		RPM	Temp	WG Load	Actual

 /min	%	 mbar	 mbar		 /min	°C	%	 mbar
1640	46.6	990	1040		1600	23	0	1050
1720	64.7	990	1070		1680	24	0	1040
1840	82	2230	1080		1760	24	0	1090
1920	103.8	2250	1260		1880	24	95.3	1160
2080	118	2260	1460		2000	23	95.3	1360
2360	139.1	2260	1740		2200	23	95.3	1600
2600	157.1	2220	2000		2480	23	69	1890
2880	159.4	2210	2070		2720	23	67.5	2040
3200	166.2	2190	2120		3080	23	71.4	2100
3480	166.9	2170	2130		3320	24	71.8	2140
3760	168.4	2170	2130		3600	24	72.5	2140
4000	168.4	2170	2120		3880	24	76.1	2120
4280	172.2	2150	2160		4120	25	79.2	2120
4560	175.9	2130	2180		4440	26	80.8	2180
4880	169.9	2070	2060		4760	27	80.8	2140
5120	162.4	2010	1960		5000	28	82	2010
5320	157.1	1990	1950		5240	29	85.9	1960
5520	151.9	1970	1940		5400	30	88.2	1940
5680	148.1	1920	1890		5600	30	90.2	1890
5880	145.1	1880	1830		5800	30	91	1840
6040	139.8	1850	1790		5960	32	92.9	1820
6160	136.1	1850	1770		6120	32	94.9	1770
6320	133.8	1830	1740		6280	32	95.3	1760
6480	130.1	1820	1740		6400	33	94.1	1740

'002					'020			
RPM	Load	Inj.On	MAF		Timing Pull			

 /min	%	 ms	 g/s		 CF	 CF	 CF	 CF
1920	97.7	11.89	39.53		0	0	0	0
2080	113.5	13.94	48.75		0	0	0	0
2320	133.1	16.4	64		0	0	0	0
2560	151.1	18.86	77.81		0	0	0	0
2840	157.1	19.68	86.36		0	0	0	0
3120	165.4	20.91	100.94		0	0	0	0
3440	167.7	21.32	110.19		0	0	0	0
3800	171.4	22.14	124.97		0	0	0	0
4080	168.4	22.55	130.06		3	0	0	0
4440	175.9	23.78	149.97		3	0	3	0
4720	175.2	24.19	157.53		3	3	6	3
5040	166.9	23.78	157.89		3	3	6	3
5240	160.9	23.78	160.31		3	3	6	3
5440	154.9	23.37	160.31		2.3	3	6	3
5640	151.9	23.37	161.56		2.3	3	6	3
5800	146.6	22.55	162.14		2.3	2.3	6	2.3
5960	143.6	22.14	163.56		2.3	2.3	5.3	2.3
6120	138.3	21.73	161.42		2.3	2.3	5.3	2.3
6240	135.3	21.32	161.11		2.3	2.3	5.3	2.3
6360	133.1	21.32	161.69		1.5	2.3	5.3	2.3
6480	130.1	20.5	160.86		1.5	2.3	5.3	2.3

Group A:	'120			Group B:	'003		
RPM	Torque	Torque		RPM	MAF	Load	Timing

 /min	 Nm	lb/ft		 /min	 g/s	%	 °BTDC
1680	139.2	102.67		1760	34.83	100	6.8
1880	170.5	125.75		2000	46.25	100	2.3
2080	211.7	156.14		2200	 	100	5.3
2360	239.1	176.35		2520	76.11	100	6
2640	278.3	205.26		2800	85	100	7.5
2920	290.1	213.97		3080	96.19	100	9
3240	286.2	211.09		3360	108.44	100	9.8
3520	290.1	213.97		3680	113.53	99.6	11.3
3840	297.9	219.72		4000	129.17	100	13.5
4200	280.3	206.74		4320	143.92	100	11.3
4480	278.3	205.26		4640	152.81	100	12
4760	282.2	208.14		4920	156.61	100	12.8
5000	272.4	200.91		5120	158.58	100	13.5
5240	256.8	189.41		5360	161.64	100	10.5
5440	241.1	177.83		5520	159.42	99.6	9
5600	227.4	167.72		5680	161.56	100	9
5760	233.2	172.00		5840	161.83	100	9.8
5920	209.7	154.67		5960	163.56	99.6	12.8
6080	203.8	150.32		6120	160.86	100	12.8
6200	207.8	153.27		6240	160	100	16.5
6320	196	144.56		6360	161.11	100	17.3
6480	188.2	138.81		6360	0	4.3	20.3

From this logging, I would say the previous timing pull issue was due to crap fuel. I know cylinder 3 is still high but I've only been running Optimax for one day so I'll give it a week to run through and adapt, then log again.
On the boost side of things, I'm getting closer to requested boost and according to VAG-COM gained 12lb/ft of torque from this. MAF figures are still very good. I was concerned I was going to see very high wastegate duty figures, since I've preloaded the actuator to the max but as you can see, I'm not. Let me know what you think guys - does this confirm my actuator spring is weak? Many thanks!

Does anyone know if I can log fueling to see if it's running rich/lean?

 

[PhilW]

You've got no thread left on your actuator? Its wound all the way in?

CF's are still high tho.

 

[T7ODD]

You've got no thread left on your actuator? Its wound all the way in?

Correct.

CF's are still high tho.

Only on one cylinder. Old petrol is still running through. Could be a coilpack on the way out I guess.