Wheels and (Winter) Tyres

[rafletcher]

Well, once again I find myself in a bit of a spot, due to my impetuous nature! . I've pulled the trigger on a nearly-new ex-demonsrator Cupar Ateca "Limited Edition". I did see it has the Brembo brakes option, and LE wheels, what I failed to notice was that those wheel are 20", with 245/35/20 tyres.

Up until now (well, for the last 10 years of Audi's) I've run a second set of rims (17") with winter tyres - I even have a fifth as a spare. These fitted the A4, and (just) the S3 but obvioulsy are no good for the Ateca/Brembo combo, as that's a minimum of 18" rims.

Now I'm doing less mileage there's the option of a yearly tyre swap instead, made more attractive as winter tyres in 245/35/20 are a bit pricey - the mid-range Nokians are £250 a piece. However I'd hope, for £1000, to be able to find a set of 18" rims with tyres for winter - which of course would keep those lovely copper rims out of the salt and crap too, plus be a narrower tyre, which helps a bit in the snow.

My problem is I don't know what 18" rim spec will fit over the Brembos. Is it as simple as using somewhere like this..

https://www.willtheyfit.com/index.p...ct2=50&wheel_size=18&wheel_width=7&offset2=45

to check relative position?

I used here

https://www.wheel-size.com/size/cupra/ateca/2018/

to check what fitments are standard on the Ateca, but the Cupra (especially with the Brembo's) is not listed - I've asked the dealer to find the spec of the 20" rim for me, but even if they don't (and generally my experience of dealers of any stripe has led me to belive they wont...) I can always whip them off and check for myself - I'll be fitting mudflaps anyway (saw the thread on here ) and like to copaslip the hub/wheel interface for ease of removal). I'm also happy to use spacers with the winter wheels if I need to offset more to clear the callipers.

Anyone have more advice / experience to add? It may be a matter of finding a relatively available rim, then buying one to try on, and selling on if no good, but as shipping wheels is a pain, and I've still got 5 x winter and 1 x summer from the S3 in tha shed, I'd rather not add to them!

TIA

Richard

ETA - looking at the comparison website, I can see that using a 7" rim pulls the outside of the rim in - which would probably clash with the calliper - so I really need a much lower offset figure to push the rim out - or use spacers I guess. I might try asking the forum sponsor if they can advise what 18" rim would fit over the Brembo's

 

[BigJase88]

Yeah the main thing is the spoke style, brembo’s are fat buggers so all about offset and spoke clearance.

One 18” alloy may fit and another style may not.

You probs really need to try them on to be 100%

 

[RUM4MO]

Yes, disposing ie selling on used winter wheels+tyres should be easy, but it seems not to be, I gave away the winters for my Passat with and for “good luck” threw in my wife’s old Polo winters as well.

Winter wheel sizes, have you checked on the “mytyres” website, people in Germany are normally ahead of us wrt winter wheels and tyres - and so sizes. Also there are a few other mainland Europe winter wheels and tyres sellers to cross check.

I would have thought that SEAT would have been able to tell your local dealership which alloy sizes they sell for winter use, that should work as a starting point, I know Audi stocked winters for my S4. but I was too picky to use their preferred size and just dropped down to the 18” option to my 19” alloys. Cleaning winter alloys can be a chore when fitting smaller sizes and space gets a bit tight round about the callipers, okay on my S4 with its factory ATE brakes and 18” alloys, but a nuisance with my wife’s Polo now that it has its 15” winters on and has 288mm front brakes, so it is a case of clean everything then move the car half a wheel rotation to get to the bits that are still dirty!

 

[rafletcher]

I'll maybe drop a line to Letchworth CUPRA as forum sponsors, they might be able to help. The fly in the ointment is the Brembo brakes, and what effect that may have on offset required. The 17" Audi ones I have only just squeaked over the S3 callipers!

 

[Terry99]

I'll maybe drop a line to Letchworth CUPRA as forum sponsors, they might be able to help. The fly in the ointment is the Brembo brakes, and what effect that may have on offset required. The 17" Audi ones I have only just squeaked over the S3 callipers!

Yes , Brembos are the problem. I remember when getting my Cupra Ateca that you could specify a spare wheel as an option, but not if you’d gone for Brembos. Not enough clearance.

 

[rafletcher]

Hmmm. I asked the dealer to add a space saver, for which I’ve been charged, but today asked them to check if it would actually fit over the Brembo’s. I’ll remind them again before pickup to see if they’ve checked. At least I get the roadside recovery included! I don’t think I’ve ever actually had a puncture (I’ve buggered tyres twice by hitting misaligned kerb setts) but it’s just habit to have one, especially when travelling away from home, and especially abroad. Maybe I’ll get a spare tyre (literally) for such jaunts!

ETA I suppose spacers could be used to space it off, not sure how reliable that would be in practice and of course the space saver rim will be maybe a 17” with high profile tyre although an 18” space saver is available I note. Might be better off getting tyre insurance! It’s just the inconvenience of waiting for recovery rather than being able to drive a short way to refuge.

 

[RUM4MO]

I would think that your dealer is smart enough, or could be made to be smart enough not to supply a 17" spacer saver, they will surely supply a 19" space saver rubber band type wheel/tyre.
There MUST be an easy SEAT solution to this - or Brembo brakes option should have a "not possible to use with winter wheels/tyre sizes" warning, and once you have found out what SEAT'S winter wheel option is, then you will be able to get hold of your own chose of winter alloys and tyres.

 

[rafletcher]

You'd think so, wouldn't you. However past experience has informed me differently. Take, oh, a random Toyota dealer, and ask how many sets of direct TPMS sensors can be stored in a Corolla. Then sit back with your popcorn. It's 2 (clue - it's in the handbook....), and there's no need to visit the dealer when you swap from one to the other once they're both coded, but the dealer sales staff hadn't a clue. Only the service manager (eventually) confirmed.

 

[rafletcher]

Well, finally got confirmation from the dealer. No space saver (so that’s £167 to come off the bill, that’ll pay for mudflaps and a boot liner) just a tyre inflation kit. I’ll not be able to do what I did with Audi I suspect, and get a matching full size spare off eBay, as Cupra Ateca 20” copper alloys won’t exactly be common! I might, however, be able to get a 20” rim to the same spec to use as a stopgap, and to take abroad or on longer trips, but none of that helps on the side of a country road in the UK. Hey ho. One reason perhaps to take out tyre insurance as the inflation kits apparently render the tyre unrepairable although I can’t see why this should be so - and Green Flag say it’s because the tyre shops don’t like / want to clean up the resulting mess of sealant, no doubt citing “health and safety” as the reason whereas it’s probably more likely to be for speed and convenience in the Kwik Fits of this world.

 

[M4ppy]

Why not get the spare and if you get a flat in the front, move a rear wheel over and put the emergency spare on the rear, that’s what I did when I had brembos on my last ateca, i didn’t go for brembos when I ordered my facelift C&S, but added the pan roof and copper wheels

 

[rafletcher]

Why not get the spare and if you get a flat in the front, move a rear wheel over and put the emergency spare on the rear, that’s what I did when I had brembos on my last ateca, i didn’t go for brembos when I ordered my facelift C&S, but added the pan roof and copper wheels

Now that’s a bit of (bloody obvious if I’d thought about it ) lateral thinking! I’ll actually buy an aftermarket spare (they’re around £130) and I’ve plenty of foam chunks from when I converted a previous car to space saver. Thanks

 

[RUM4MO]

Yes I've read of that being what you are expected to do on some cars when you get a front wheel puncture, even performance cars that have a "rubber band" space saver.
Just how many of us feel the desire to be in the positions of needing to do 2 wheel changes at puncture time - plus just how often does the can of glup reseal a punctured tyre, I know someone that bought a new Fiat Grande Punta, I asked if it had a spare wheel "no just a can of stuff and a compressor", I suggested that he remedied that situation sharpish - and he didn't. Move forward 6 months and he was on a long journey back home after being to a daughter's wedding with a car stuffed full of wedding presents(/?!), had a blow out, phoned Fiat support, ie RAC "we do not attend punctures normally, use the tyre sealer" his answer was "but there is a large hole in the tyre, not possible to seal" RAC replied "you'll be surprised it will work that is what it is for good bye", after discharging the contents of the can into then out of the tyre he phoned RAC again "we will get to you in 3 hours as we are very busy" - so in the hours of darkness his car has transported back to his house, everywhere else was closed so leaving a car loaded with gifts outside a tyre place was not an option. He organised a mobile tyre operator to sort things out, including collecting the tyre/wheel, cleaning the rim of sealant and sourcing a new tyre took a week and cost a lot of money - lesson learned, a dealer spare wheel kit was bought and fitted into that car - and no doubt he never suffered a puncture again!

 

[BigJase88]

Yes I've read of that being what you are expected to do on some cars when you get a front wheel puncture, even performance cars that have a "rubber band" space saver.
Just how many of us feel the desire to be in the positions of needing to do 2 wheel changes at puncture time - plus just how often does the can of glup reseal a punctured tyre, I know someone that bought a new Fiat Grande Punta, I asked if it had a spare wheel "no just a can of stuff and a compressor", I suggested that he remedied that situation sharpish - and he didn't. Move forward 6 months and he was on a long journey back home after being to a daughter's wedding with a car stuffed full of wedding presents(/?!), had a blow out, phoned Fiat support, ie RAC "we do not attend punctures normally, use the tyre sealer" his answer was "but there is a large hole in the tyre, not possible to seal" RAC replied "you'll be surprised it will work that is what it is for good bye", after discharging the contents of the can into then out of the tyre he phoned RAC again "we will get to you in 3 hours as we are very busy" - so in the hours of darkness his car has transported back to his house, everywhere else was closed so leaving a car loaded with gifts outside a tyre place was not an option. He organised a mobile tyre operator to sort things out, including collecting the tyre/wheel, cleaning the rim of sealant and sourcing a new tyre took a week and cost a lot of money - lesson learned, a dealer spare wheel kit was bought and fitted into that car - and no doubt he never suffered a puncture again!

I hit a pot hole and had a blown out.

can of foam left the tyre as soon as it went in. Useless

so i drove the 5 miles home on a flat, it took about half an hour

 

['Little' John]

Hit a pot hole. Bent the rim. No way the can of foam is going to help. Got abandoned by Mazda assist (RAC subcontracting to someone else) because they were busy dealing with a dozen other people who hit the same pothole and they couldn't find a driver with enough hours to take us the 200 miles to our destination........

Always have a spare tyre now, and not had a puncture since .

 

[Zephyr]

IMHO: A 20inch rim with winter tires is yelling for trouble and for scorching (and r*ping) your pocket every time you hit a pothole and kill a tire.

Much much reasonable is to look for an 18-inch rim that clears the Brembo calliper (8x18 on ET40 on 5x112 isn't an uncommon size - stock on Ateca is an 8x19 ET44 by their tech specs) and this paired with a more 'mundane' and cheaper size like a 225/50-18 or 235/50-18 would make wonders in tire pricing, models, comfort and others.

In fact, I'm looking for some 18-inch wheels that clear those callipers on my Formentor. Got an answer (by phone - nothing contractual) that some wheel models would clear it without problem (8x18 on ET40).

Planning to check it out with a test fit on the fronts to see if is true. In fact have here 4 Snowproof P on 235/50-18 waiting for a suitable set of rims for my winter set.

 

[rafletcher]

Cool, let me know if they fit, 18s would be what I would go for. Plenty of VAG group wheels to choose from.

 

[rafletcher]

Well, having failed to get the info from SEAT.UK, who simply referred me to “your local dealer”, and from the selling dealers “Cupra Specialist” who simply hasn’t responded to my emails (that’s you, Callum Lee @ D.M Keith in York - other staff members have been great btw), I went and took a wheel off today to see for myself.

The 20” rims are 8jx20H2 ET40. And whilst it seems 18” rims will fit over the humongous Brembo callipers, the radial clearance is around 3mm. With winter grot that’s too close for comfort, so 19”s it‘ll be. I suspect I’ll have to go to a rim shop and actually try some on, as the clearance between the outer face of the calliper and the back of the spokes is only around 5mm on the 20” rims. I don’t know enough about rim geometry to know if all 8j ET40 rims would clear them, or if it’s spoke design dependent.

 

[BigJase88]

Well, having failed to get the info from SEAT.UK, who simply referred me to “your local dealer”, and from the selling dealers “Cupra Specialist” who simply hasn’t responded to my emails (that’s you, Callum Lee @ D.M Keith in York - other staff members have been great btw), I went and took a wheel off today to see for myself.

The 20” rims are 8jx20H2 ET40. And whilst it seems 18” rims will fit over the humongous Brembo callipers, the radial clearance is around 3mm. With winter grot that’s too close for comfort, so 19”s it‘ll be. I suspect I’ll have to go to a rim shop and actually try some on, as the clearance between the outer face of the calliper and the back of the spokes is only around 5mm on the 20” rims. I don’t know enough about rim geometry to know if all 8j ET40 rims would clear them, or if it’s spoke design dependent.

Spoke design dependant

 

[Zephyr]

Well, having failed to get the info from SEAT.UK, who simply referred me to “your local dealer”, and from the selling dealers “Cupra Specialist” who simply hasn’t responded to my emails (that’s you, Callum Lee @ D.M Keith in York - other staff members have been great btw), I went and took a wheel off today to see for myself.

The 20” rims are 8jx20H2 ET40. And whilst it seems 18” rims will fit over the humongous Brembo callipers, the radial clearance is around 3mm. With winter grot that’s too close for comfort, so 19”s it‘ll be. I suspect I’ll have to go to a rim shop and actually try some on, as the clearance between the outer face of the calliper and the back of the spokes is only around 5mm on the 20” rims. I don’t know enough about rim geometry to know if all 8j ET40 rims would clear them, or if it’s spoke design dependent.

Hi Rafletcher:

Got my Formentor VZ yesterday (March 12) and picked up my wife to do some errands around home just to start having a grasp of what kind of car is. As told you in my last message, did some previous homework regarding 18 Inchers for a winter setup.

Been looking for some suitable rims for such setup where the rim spokes clear the 4 pot brake calliper. Unfortunately, found that suitable rims that clear the calliper aren't quite cheap (Revo RF018, OZ - several models like Superturismo, Ultraleggeraand some cheaper models from BBS).

The wheel size suitable is 8x18 on ET40 or ET35 (the most common offsets). 40 will give you the same fit I have on my Formentor: Helluva tight (look on the image I'm posting). ET35 will give you more clearance with the calliper (in fact, 5mm more). I'm trying with this beauty on matt Bronze:

Revo RF0 Alloy Wheel

The RV0 wheel is a flow-formed alloy that's lightweight yet exceptionally strong, designed in-house at Revo HQ. Flow forming is one of the most advanced manufacturing technologies to enter the wheel industry.

www.onlyrevo.com

I know, I know... still have some fetish for wheels on such colours (missing badly my Subi B22). As said, at least on the Spanish ITV (same dog as your UK MOT) I can move into a plus/minus 3% on tire diameter hence the 225/50-18 size mentioned previously for a winter size.

Have an appointment just for a test fit a Revo RF018 on my Formentor this forthcoming week. Expecting to have some news soon.