SEAT Ibiza 2 (6K1, 1.4 i phase 3)- Engine knock, Injector circuit low on all cylinders.

[Oluniu]

Hi,
I have recently an issue on my Ibiza 2. Engine doesn't start.

At first OBD Scanner was giving me a TPS issue (P0322) , after cleaning it everything went back to normal. After 4 weeks (without driving it, nor fueling it back it was already full tank) I got back to what seemed to be the same issue : engine knock and not starting.

OBD Scanner gives me this time another (what seems to be) more serious issue:
P0261, P0264, P0267 and P0270 issue which are "Injector Circuit low" on my 4 cylinders. (eventually a P0443 that seems to be no related).

With what I read until now, it seems that issue could be related to the alternator, the battery, or the Fuel Injection Control Module (FICM) as all of my 4 cylinders shows "Injector Circuit low" alert.

My battery is at 11.92V (battery is the "Varta D15 12V 63Ah 610A").
Car has 184223km.
I'm doing since 2-3 years a mixture 50% SP95 fuel and 50% E85 ethanol without having a single issue since then. I don't have any ethanol kit installed.

Do you guys have any ideas about the root cause ?

 

[mty12345]

Have you checked the fuses? If it's all 4 injectors then it must be something electrical. Check for voltage at the control modules and the injectors. Have you got a good ground/earth connection for the engine block?

 

[Oluniu]

Thanks for the answer.
All fuses seems okay.
Check for voltage at the control modules => You mean at the FICM ?
Check for voltage at the injector => Will do

Engine block ground/earth connection is perfect. 0 Ohm between ground engine block and battery - .
I have the feeling that this morning battery is the one to blame. Engine has much more trouble to start knocking and dashboard lights are having trouble lighting up when I try to start the engine.
Battery went down to 11.72V after two tries of starting the engine, that seems weird to me.

Should I give a try to change battery first ? It's getting a bit old, 4-5 years at least.

 

[mty12345]

Sorry i meant Fuel injection control module when i said FICM.

A lot of times it's best to use a test light to check grounds, as multimeters can show 0 ohms when using a meter, but are unable to pass larger currents.

Yes it could be the battery, some car parts shops will test the condition of your battery for free here in the UK. Voltage could be dropping a lot when the engine is trying to start.

 

[Oluniu]

Understood.

It was the battery. After replacing it, engine started without any issue. (I'm a bit ashamed it was that easy to resolve tbh but well good for me at the end
)
Thanks a lot for your help that points me to electrical issue !

 

[mty12345]

Understood.

It was the battery. After replacing it, engine started without any issue. (I'm a bit ashamed it was that easy to resolve tbh but well good for me at the end
)
Thanks a lot for your help that points me to electrical issue !

No worries, glad to hear that you got it sorted out

 

[Oluniu]

Well, story is a bit different.
I drove my car for 10 minutes to try it, then I left it back for two weeks.
Then same issues. Battery is brand new.
I remove battery just to check it, my C7 Charger detect an issue again on this brand new battery meaning something happened and battery shouldn't be a that level. I charge it full again (in 3 hours).
Start my car no issue, OBD tool gives me this while engine is ON (this P0230 appeared since a month):

After 30 seconds, engine turns off by itself.
Then I'm unable to start car again.

OBD then again gets back to usual error code that I had:

I remove battery put it back on charger. It says again that battery is flat, that I have to charge it. Within 5 minutes here are the results when battery is on charge with my C7 charger. It actually surprise me it goes that fast, it seems strange.

Then after 10-15 minutes battery is seen as full, and charger gets to "trickle charge mode":

For information, I used mode 1 here, and here the description manual of how the C7 charger performs the charging : https://www.modesdemploi.fr/bosch/c7/mode-d-emploi?p=22
Here the lights meaning : https://www.modesdemploi.fr/bosch/c7/mode-d-emploi?p=24


It seems actually a electric issue somewhere as my battery get flat within a minute or so. About the test light, I read this article https://www.diagnosticmechanic.com/articles/how-to-use-a-test-light
Should I get a simple test light or a more complex "battery tester" to go deeper in the investigation to check my car's electrical system ?

 

[mty12345]

Hi again mate.

This is quite a strange issue,. but i think you probably have maybe 2 different faults here. For now you will just need a basic multimeter like the one shown in the video below. Here in england if you take your battery to a lot of small autoparts stores, they will test your battery for free with a proper battery tester, but as the battery is new I think the fault is almost certainly with the car.


1. Car cutting out and all those fault codes.
This is hard to dianose, and most likely was the fuel pump not having enough power, so you need to start with the basics related to the battery first. Remove the battery so you don't cause a short circuit while working.

Clean the battery terminals with a wire brush or similar and follow the black negative lead to find out where it connects to the body of the car. With an old car there is a chance that you have corrosion or rust between this connection an the cars body. Unbolt that connection and clean the lead and the surface where it attaches to the car.

Next i would find and check the main ground/earth wire which runs between the engine block and the body of the car. This wire (or more often it's kind of a braided metal strap/strip) is what supplies the ground connection for your injectors and other engine sensors. You need to check and clean both ends of this connection in the same way that you did for the black wire from the battery.

With those checked and clean, reconnect the battery (fully charged) and start the car. Check the voltage at the battery. With the car running it should be around 13.5v. this confirms that your alternator is working properly. I

If all that is good, then delete all those fault codes, cycle the igniton on/off, drive the car and see which ones come back. A lot of those codes will have been set when the battery voltage gets below a certain level, and it will be easier to track the problem if you erase the ones related to that.

2. The battery going flat over 2 weeks

2 weeks is quite a long time to sit for any car, but with a brand new battery then it should be able to handle it. Most likely you have some sort of parasitic draw (power use) when the car is switched off. This is usually down to a module not going to sleep (ECU, body control module etc) either that or it could be a lightbulb that is staying on when it shouldn't. Check in the boot and in the glove compartment etc for a light bulb staying on. Other than that there are good videos on youtube about how to find it. On a modern car it can be a nightmare, but on an older car like yours, it should be a lot easier to work it out.

If you know you won't be using the car for a couple of weeks, then i would consider disconnecting the battery until you have this fault sorted, as othewise you may damage it. Even a new battery can be damaged if it goes below a certain volatge too many times, so you want to avoid that.


This is a basic overview and more suitable for older cars.

This one is a better way for modern cars with more complicated electronics, and also is a lot more in depth.

Hope that is some help for you, let me know how you get on or if you have any questions.

 

[Oluniu]

Hi, tahnks for quick answer, another time !

My mistake, the old battery was still in place for those 2 weeks. The new one got back in place this Thursday. When Im' talking about battery I'm talking from now on only about the brand new one.
Let's just forget about this issue with flat battery then, and focus on the Car cutting out and all those fault codes.
I clean the body ground that goes from battery negative, it didn't have rust or anything, only a bit of oil/grease. this right wire goes straight to battery negative :

Check the main ground/earth wire which runs between the engine block and the body of the car

Seems to be the exact same wire on my car, battery negative <=> body car <=> engine block, this wire goes straight to this "left wire" shown on the pic upper.

Cleaned it, looked already nice also to me(this pic was taken before cleaning it)

Here what happened next.
After another full charge of battery, I put it back in place. I check if there is current leakage => Nop, only about 0.3mA when everything is off, that seems normal.

I plug other end of battery. Voltage is at a steady 12.80V.

I put ignition on, battery slowly drops to 12.47V (in 1-2 minutes), until I start engine of the car. Voltage drops to 10.47V then goes back within 5 seconds to 12.25V. The oil light lights up. I have this issue since a while(2 years), a sensor probably sending wrong values to the car. I'm just under the maximum level.

I can here RPM's slowly decreasing sometime for 2-3 seconds then gets back to usual speed. Battery voltage stays around 12.25V. I push gas by a bit after 2-3 minutes, voltage rise up to 14.5V then stays there. After 3 minutes, engine turns off by itself. I'm unable to start the car again. Some silicon pipes (well, is it silicon ? Idk but some non-metal pipes lol) seems super hot the the touch, the one that goes to radiator (which didn't turn on) the other one for the cooling liquid and two other goes straight out from the engine.
OBD gives me the exact sames current faults in red that I had before.
After 1hour, I try to start the car again, without success.

 

[Oluniu]

I have some news.
I went back to my car to check again what could be wrong. As it's late in the evening I immediately saw the "Airbag warning" lights on my dashboard. Always. Even when car is closed and no key got inserted. Voltage of my battery is now at 12.55V when no key is inserted.

I remove negative side of my battery, did the current test again, exactly 0.33mA and the airbag warning light gets on again.I'm gonna check in this direction.

No error code on my cheap OBD scanner got me in this way though...So maybe the light just showed up recently ? Or I wasn't being careful in daylight, and my OBD scanner can't deal with this airbag error code so it doesn't even shows them.
Could it be just that as engine have troubles starting, this light shows up after some attempts without success ?

I checked quickly I couldn't see any airbag fuse at the emplacement of the fuse box I was checking. So I can't for now turn it off and see how car reacts. I removed negative lead on my battery for the night. Investigation will keep going tomorrow

 

[mty12345]

I have some news.
I went back to my car to check again what could be wrong. As it's late in the evening I immediately saw the "Airbag warning" lights on my dashboard. Always. Even when car is closed and no key got inserted. Voltage of my battery is now at 12.55V when no key is inserted.
View attachment 42813

I remove negative side of my battery, did the current test again, exactly 0.33mA and the airbag warning light gets on again.I'm gonna check in this direction.

No error code on my cheap OBD scanner got me in this way though...So maybe the light just showed up recently ? Or I wasn't being careful in daylight, and my OBD scanner can't deal with this airbag error code so it doesn't even shows them.
Could it be just that as engine have troubles starting, this light shows up after some attempts without success ?

I checked quickly I couldn't see any airbag fuse at the emplacement of the fuse box I was checking. So I can't for now turn it off and see how car reacts. I removed negative lead on my battery for the night. Investigation will keep going tomorrow

If the battery is going flat and you are connecting and reconnecting the it, then it's normal for an airbag to come on. It's probably just a code for low voltage. I'm not sure why it would be illuminated without the key in the ignition though. That seems weird. When you have enough on/off cycles without any faults, it will usually clear itself.

As for the oil light that is usually oil pressure not oil level, you need to get that sorted. If that's been on for 2 years then it must be a faulty sensor, or if you didn't have oil pressure it would have been long dead. If it's not starting then i would check you have fuel pressure and spark

 

[Oluniu]

Hi again my friend.

As for the oil light that is usually oil pressure not oil level, you need to get that sorted. If that's been on for 2 years then it must be a faulty sensor, or if you didn't have oil pressure it would have been long dead. If it's not starting then i would check you have fuel pressure and spark

My fuel pressure sensor doesn't give me data to elm327 OBD associated to Torque Pro on Android it seems :/ How can I check this ? A better OBD scanner with a proper interface included ?
To check the spark, you mean at the ignition coil ? How can I check this without replacing them ?

If I'm following this chart, my newer battery never got flat. https://www.batteryskills.com/car-battery-voltage-chart/#Reading_a_Voltage_Chart
I was always upper 12.5V even after few tries to turn engine on.

No airbag light this morning you were probably right Then question would be, why with a battery at 12.55V this light would turn on as low voltage condition as it seems I was never in condition of ?
Anyway.

I'm starting to think issue is somewhere else.
Here a link to a french topic that seems to point to my issue. Big issue on Seat Ibiza
I noticed today at some point my relay 167 (fuel pump relay) was going crazy when my car was in ignition mode, not even trying to turn on engine.

Guy says what seems to be my issues:

When I turn the key to start my starter is really having trouble starting my engine and what's more that's why I have my RELAY 167 which is crackling and the lights on my dashboard look like a Christmas tree, they all come on and off.

They give some advice :

Checks the cleanliness and tightness of the battery/motor and battery/chassis earth terminals and braids.

As you mention to me. It seems they are clean. Let's continue.

You have the symptoms of a sudden drop in voltage due to too much line resistance.(lugs, braids, or battery that has become too "resistant", especially if more than 5 years old and levels never made).

mmmh well maybe I have this issue, but I now have a brand new battery.

They add, that points me to some kind of voltage issue still...I'm getting confused how am I getting line drop with a battery at good level and ground/earth/body good connection and no parasitic draw ?

A relay that clicks is a sign that it is not correctly supplied with voltage (line drop due to too high line resistance).

Then the final diagnostic, which was a dead battery (that I can eliminate) and starter issue (charcoal) :

end of the diagnostic charcoal of the ultra bit starter + battery hs now that I have put everything back together my seat runs like clockwork

Should I maybe check my starter to look for issues ? But once engine started, why my engine would have turned off yesterday ?
Maybe ignition coil ? They would have make my engine turns off if they were defective
I'm starting to loose hope in this