Quick Manifold Question?

[justinking]

hi, after reading the thread on engine transplants, i want to start tuning my ibiza, but was wondering what the difference is between a 4-2-1 and a 4-1 manifold? or have i misread something? i am looking to be getting a new stainless steel one after xams but unsure which to go for? any ideas?

thanks for any help!

 

[RobT]

your engine has 4 cylinders = 4 exhaust ports = 4 exhaust pipes coming directly out of the engine. These 4 pipes can be connected together in many ways - 4-2-1 is 4-into-2-into 1 and 4-1 is directly 4-into 1.

Exhaust design is not a simple thing, the rule of thumb is that 4-2-1 is better for midrange whilst 4-1 is better for top end. But this depends on the design of the exhaust, the lengths of each bit of pipe, the geometry of the joining pieces eetc etc

What engine is in your car ?

 

[justinking]

ok thanks mate, i have a 2.0 16v, got a power run on it recently and came out at 165.1bhp. just wondered which i would be better going for, and what sort of gains i should expect?

justin

 

[F2 Stu]

There are no off the shelf tubiler manifolds avilable for the ABF motor, as its 17mm taller than other 16v engines,

 

[WeeJase]

unless you have a left hand drive

 

[F2 Stu]

That as well.

 

[F2 Stu]

Mmmmmmmmmmmm

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/VW-Seat-Exhau...ryZ38786QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Come to papa!

 

[Fl@pper]

ooops i think i need a tissue

 

[F2 Stu]

Too late!

Guess who I'm calling first thing tommorow

 

[justinking]

http://www.europerformance.co.uk/pages/products/product_info.mhtml?id=62752

would this one not fit then? btw i like that one on ebay!!

 

[WeeJase]

http://www.europerformance.co.uk/pages/products/product_info.mhtml?id=62752

would this one not fit then? btw i like that one on ebay!!

only on left hookers mate,unless they have developed a RHD this year

 

[RobT]

Thats a good find stu - I had heard that TSR were making one, but £350.....ouch (the short block one is less than £200)

Nice to finally have one for RHD tallblocks but it dont look a very good design to me......way too short primaries....not too sure this will be a performance advantage but it sure looks nice (will be lighter than std manifold though)

Edit - just looked at pics again - they are all not of the same exhaust.........

Rob

 

[justinking]

oh ok mate, just have to put my money towards somethin else.. i actually thought my car used to be a LHD when i first got it, but had been converted.. just since the central locking doesnt work from the drivers door, but does from the passenger, and there is no glove box on the passenger side, but is one on the drivers.. but then i found out this is quite common?

 

[F2 Stu]

Yeh, Noticed the subtle differences beteen pictures on the collector

Not sure on the abrupt kink near the flange at the bottom & the lack of a compensation joint with a car with for now stock mounts may be an issue

The Price? They have a fairly niche market so they charge what they like I suppose.

 

[cordobabrendy]

10 fookin years to design that manifold.... fookin hell, looks nice though.
Id vbe wondering why they arnt releasing it to the mainstream readers of the better car mags out there (ie not maxy flower etc) and going th3e ebay route which could piss some customers off if they see others getting them cheaper, even if only a few quid..

rob you might be right about the short primaries but wonder how much better the actual per pipe flow is over standard, it'd need to be to claim the gain.

 

[cordobabrendy]

etka £268 for a standard item too so 350 as said above isnt cheap.

 

[Fl@pper]

got a golf 3 standard cast one on mine at the moment but did toy with the idea of modifying a short block one adding in a flexi section just in case

bosal exhaust stockists at work so i can get wotever i need but in the end gave up messing about and now with a tig welder may as well make me own as i want it

better get the design head on again then i guess

 

[F2 Stu]

This is a responce from a couple of questions I had

Hi, the manifold is designed to fit the ABF engine and thus has much less movement than a stock mainfold and has correctly sized ports to fit flusher and tighter at both ends. Stainless steel is 20% thinner than mild steel and much more so than cast iron. It therefore has much more flexibility. It works very well with std engine mounts. The product comes with a 12 month warranty unless damaged due to being incorrectly fitted by someone other than TSR. We hosted the Somerset and Dorset VW GTI Rolling Road Day last Saturday and everyone loved the manifold. The best comment I heard was that 'it's like sex and chocolate combined'. I think that says it all.

 

[RobT]

This is a responce from a couple of questions I had

Hi, the manifold is designed to fit the ABF engine and thus has much less movement than a stock mainfold and has correctly sized ports to fit flusher and tighter at both ends. Stainless steel is 20% thinner than mild steel and much more so than cast iron. It therefore has much more flexibility. It works very well with std engine mounts. The product comes with a 12 month warranty unless damaged due to being incorrectly fitted by someone other than TSR. We hosted the Somerset and Dorset VW GTI Rolling Road Day last Saturday and everyone loved the manifold. The best comment I heard was that 'it's like sex and chocolate combined'. I think that says it all.


PMSL. What a load of crap.

"the manifold is designed to fit the ABF engine and thus has much less movement than a stock mainfold" - makes no sense

"Stainless steel is 20% thinner than mild steel and much more so than cast iron. It therefore has much more flexibility" - wall thickness is not the only thing to affect flexibility - you could make it out of plastic 5X the wall thickness of mild steel and it would be more flexible....the material also counts and as far as I remember, SS is less flexible than mild steel (any engineers like to comment ?)

But if they have checked it out with std mounts them fine....depends on condition of std mounts I would say.

The most concerning thing is they have provided no dyno-backed performance figs.....if it was that good wouldn't they be showing them off ????

But it looks nice.

Rob

 

[F2 Stu]

Im no engineer - but I work with ally, steel & stainless day in day out.

Stainless is tough as arseholes to work with compaired with mild steel, so find it difficult to get my head around it being more flexible.

Say it is more flexible - what about fatigue & cracking?