Please Explain Traction Control

ladybird

Active Member
Oct 7, 2011
166
0
Portsmouth
I have never had Traction control before and im not 100% sure what it actually does !:blink:
I have always left it on ! So what difference does it make when you turn it off ?:shrug:
 

Double-6s

Active Member
Mar 25, 2012
341
0
Hove (Brighton)
Basically cuts engine power when it detects wheelspin / loss of grip I think. Not sure how. Maybe timing or something.

ESP is different, as on LCRs. This is based on brakes or something and is a stability system, designed to stop you skidding off the road. Seem to remember that ESP usually includes TC as well.

Right, that's probably all utter carp, so someone with real knowledge will be along shortly! :)

Basically though, turn it off. I did in the rain yesterday and it was like wrestling a bear! Lol :)
 

gdjohny

Crazy Mechanical Engineer
Dec 25, 2010
815
0
Kettering
TC is a system that operates using ABS sensors. If you accelerate to fast and wheel spin appears there is a difference in wheel speed between front and rear wheels the system cuts the power down or brakes the wheel that is spinning faster then others......
or something.
 

Ian_83

Guest
Feels to me like when the TC cuts in, its cutting the throttle until it regains grip. It's not too invasive I find so I just leave it on.
 

Cupra Grant

Active Member
Aug 14, 2011
111
0
ESP is a combination of stability control abs and traction control. It use a variety of sensors including. Wheel speed (abs sensors and exsiter rings) pitch yaw and roll sensors throttle position and so on. In a slide situation ESP will sence that the car is sliding when a yaw/ tilt sensor is tripped it will also sense that the wheels are spinning and you have probobly got your foot down lol so all the dated is collected and the ecu will evaluate it and active the appropriate parts of the system so left hand slide it would aplie o/s front brake , retard engine power then aplie n/s rear brake to try and bring you back into the straight ahead position all this is information is monitored in most cases 25 times a second (this is a very brief description my assignment on it was about 17 pages long lol) if you turn it off then the system can't help you and you the driver have to do all the corrections yourself which is good because ESP can be a little intrusive At times
 

Muttley

Catch that diesel!
Mar 17, 2006
4,987
31
North Kent
You do realise you've opened a can of worms and now all the old barricades are being manned again? :)

To deal with your original question: Traction Control in VAG cars is a system to prevent the driven wheels from losing grip when accelerating. It is implemented by the ABS computer which is attached to the ABS pump and uses the ABS wheel speed sensor information. There is no extra hardware involved with TCS - it is all in software, written by Robert Bosch GmbH, makers of the ABS system.

Some have mentioned ESP - this is much more than Traction Control, and is in all ways more complicated. I'll keep to Traction Control in this post.

Well, almost. Just what is ABS? The ABS computer takes wheel speed inputs and monitors them when you put the brakes on. If one wheel is slowing down a lot sooner than the others (i.e. it's locking up), the ABS computer releases the brake pressure on that wheel by pulsing it using a solenoid pump (you can hear and feel this) to regain grip. The purpose of ABS is to keep the wheels from locking up so that you can still steer under full braking and have a chance to avoid an obstacle. It doesn't provide the absolute best stopping distance, but it's better than most drivers, I think, as it takes the road surface under the tyres into account.

So the ABS system has wheel speed sensors, brake pressure sensors and can affect the braking of each wheel, by means of the software in its dedicated computer, the ABS control unit.

The same control unit can be used to control more of the car's behaviour. You can look at TCS (the Traction Control System) as ABS-in-reverse, controlling undesirable wheelspin during acceleration. The unit can tell if the front wheels are spinning faster than the rears. The TCS software sends a signal to the ECU which cuts the power to the front wheels, keeping your tyres in contact with the road.

This is the aspect of TCS that some find troublesome. It is felt to be intrusive, and indeed on modified cars it sometimes is reported as being alarming, cutting power in dangerous situations.

My feeling is that:
  • a remapped car may need the TCS software to be adjusted. Especially on a petrol car where the throttle plate must move in coordination with the fuel quantity being reduced to cut power smoothly. Remapped cars are more likely to react badly when asked to cut power in acceleration. Diesels have it easier as only fuel quantity needs to be managed.
  • Good, matched tyres, suspension modification, road conditions and driver ability also play a big part in provoking the TCS system. The TCS software was written for a car in good condition with standard ECU software, standard suspension and the same tyres on all four wheels.

Poor tyres will provoke TCS, most especially when it's wet or in snow+ice.

Mismatched tyres (with different rolling radius) will provoke TCS because of the difference in wheel speed. This is why TCS should be disabled if you have to put a space-saver spare on.

Lowering suspension leads to stiffening (less travel, same weight to manage) which some drivers interpret as an improvement in handling. In most cases handling (ability to go round corners/change direction and keep a grip on the road) is made worse, and the early triggering of TCS is a symptom. The stiffer car simply cocks a wheel, losing grip on the inside of the turn, or if the car is upset by potholes or bumps or oil on the road or slippery white-line markings etc. etc.

Leadfooted driving can also provoke TCS, particularly in combination with the above.


When you turn it off, you are most likely to feel a difference on poor road surfaces (rough or slippery) where the tyres will loose grip and pull the car to one side or the other. You may also see an effect when accelerating through long corners or out of short ones, where the loss of grip will lead to understeer - sliding towards the outside of the corner.

I've gone on a bit, haven't I :) I can pontificate for England given a little push. I've not covered EDL or ESP, but feel I should stop now.
 
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Cupra Grant

Active Member
Aug 14, 2011
111
0
It is a very complicated system when looked in detail took me a long time to get my head around it all at college
 

shnazzle

Glass-Half-Full Member
Sep 9, 2011
3,480
6
Northumberland
This is the aspect of TCS that some find troublesome. It is felt to be intrusive, and indeed on modified cars it sometimes is reported as being alarming, cutting power in dangerous situations.
Amen to that! My car's stock but TCS can still have you hitting your head off your steering wheel if you are dealing with the scenarios below...

Poor tyres will provoke TCS, most especially when it's wet or in snow+ice.

Mismatched tyres (with different rolling radius) will provoke TCS because of the difference in wheel speed. This is why TCS should be disabled if you have to put a space-saver spare on.

Lowering suspension leads to stiffening (less travel, same weight to manage) which some drivers interpret as an improvement in handling. In most cases handling (ability to go round corners/change direction and keep a grip on the road) is made worse, and the early triggering of TCS is a symptom. The stiffer car simply cocks a wheel, losing grip on the inside of the turn, or if the car is upset by potholes or bumps or oil on the road or slippery white-line markings etc. etc.

Leadfooted driving can also provoke TCS, particularly in combination with the above.

Based on this, I would expect that a lot of drivers on here (with Sport/Prolines or other) are experiencing these issues with TCS...is this true?
I haven't heard anything of it until now. Although it makes perfect sense.
 

Dan1720v

Active Member
Feb 28, 2010
1,928
2
Street, Somerset
Amen to that! My car's stock but TCS can still have you hitting your head off your steering wheel if you are dealing with the scenarios below...



Based on this, I would expect that a lot of drivers on here (with Sport/Prolines or other) are experiencing these issues with TCS...is this true?
I haven't heard anything of it until now. Although it makes perfect sense.

I've found out that if you become airborn the ESP really doesn't like that lol.

I would've replied with more info, but muttly has pretty much said what I would've, except, probably explained it a bit better.
 

Double-6s

Active Member
Mar 25, 2012
341
0
Hove (Brighton)
A little off topic but sort of related, can you handbrake turn an LCR / Leon?

Think it was my old corrado that used to have a fit when you tried, and the abs etc would do one.
 

shnazzle

Glass-Half-Full Member
Sep 9, 2011
3,480
6
Northumberland
Traction of for real performance, thats all i noticed lol

Unless you're on DSG, in which case I've heard that turning traction control off for extended periods of tine and ragging it can "perform" you all the way to a broken gearbox and a 2k bill :)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

Raks

Active Member
Feb 4, 2012
326
1
Birmingham
Unless you're on DSG, in which case I've heard that turning traction control off for extended periods of tine and ragging it can "perform" you all the way to a broken gearbox and a 2k bill :)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Talking about DSG box, friend had a tdi 140bhp and the box went on it and it was around a 2k bill.
 

PSX

Active Member
Sep 20, 2009
271
1
An extra snippet - I believe on the LCR even having pushed ESP OFF, the system will still cut in if you really try to throw it into a spin. The system is reactivated every time the ignition is switched on.

What practical use does the button have? In snowy/icy conditions you might find that TCS stops you being able to pull away if you get stuck. It will keep the revs down but could contribute to bogging down through moving too slowly. Obviously once moving, re-enable the system for safety's sake

Alex
 
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Muttley

Catch that diesel!
Mar 17, 2006
4,987
31
North Kent
TCS and ABS have disconcerting effects on very low-friction surfaces e.g. snow and ice. ABS can appear to have disabled the brakes, but is in fact stopping you as fast as it can - it's just that there is no grip to be had. TCS will do it's best to stop the wheels from spinning, but since getting traction out of packed snow is often a stick-slip-stick process, the TCS can interfere and make things worse.
 

Muttley

Catch that diesel!
Mar 17, 2006
4,987
31
North Kent
G.P wrote

Go on then, don't stop now EDL & ESP. . .

Remember you asked for it . . .

EDL is Electronic Differential Lock, a means of providing limited-slip-differential functionality using the ABS system. The software compares the wheel speeds of the two front wheels and if one is spinning much faster than the other, applies the brake to the faster wheel.

It was the first of the friction-control aids to be developed after ABS, and in its early incarnations could be a bit rough. Later versions are gentler and more progressive with the braking.


ESP. Now you've done it.

ESP stands for Electronic Stability Program (and not extra-sensory perception - that was needed when driving Hillman Imps fast to predict when the back end was going to step out - but I digress).

ESP uses extra bits of hardware as well as further software in the ABS computer. The extra hardware is a steering angle sensor on the steering wheel, a yaw sensor and a transverse acceleration sensor. The steering angle sensor measures where you are pointing the front wheels i.e. where you want to go. The yaw sensor measures how fast the car is turning around a vertical axis and the transverse acceleration sensor measures how much sideways slip you have: the two together tell the computer where the car is actually going.

The ABS computer compares the two, applies brakes to one or more wheels and perhaps modulates engine power to get the car pointing in the direction you've told it to go with all four tyres gripping the road.

Four-wheel drive cars have a longitudinal acceleration sensor as well, which lets the Haldex computer on the front-to-back differential control the division of power between the two axles.

If you hurtle into a hairpin bend it won't save you from an abrupt visit to the scenery, but it can help if you have to avoid a sudden obstacle or hit a patch of oil or ice while in a bend. It has more control than you do, being able to modulate the braking force on each wheel individually, preventing the tyres from losing grip.

Lots of information here from Bosch about ABS, TCS and ESP.

Here's Tiff Needell on Fifth Gear on the subject of ABS/TCS/ESP
 
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