Mind the "insurance" gap

[Howrare]

Hello folks,

I had been trying to finalise my insurance renewal for 4 days, but the deposit payment kept getting rejected. Money was in the account, and no reason for it to be declined. I had recently transfered the funds from one overseas account into my uk account so thought it was just a case of the funds clearing. All showed up fine on my online banking, but it just wouldn't go through. I kept leaving it until the next day and trying again. My insurance finally ran out on the 5th, and still no joy in getting the renewal to go through. I finally managed to get it done today, after discovering that my debit card had been put on hold due to suspected fraud. So that leaves about 36 hours when I wasn't insured. I hadn't used the car, but I am a little worried that the DVLA and all its tied up computer systems will automatically issue an IN10 (no insurance) against me.

Anyone know FOR A FACT what the current state of play is with this kind of thing?

 

[MasserS]

My Dad recieved nothing when he went away working and left the car garaged and let insurance run Out.

 

[Slimy]

You dont need constant insurance if the car is off the road, you wont get anything as long as it wasnt driven.

Are you confusing it with road tax, where it has to either be taxed or sorned?

 

[Howrare]

I was under the impression that the car had to be insured now, in the same way it has to be taxed. Rule change came in this or last year.

So just as an untaxed car has to be SORN, so would an uninsured vehicle. Or am I wrong? I hope I'm wrong

 

[Slimy]

OK, I've just done a bit of digging, I am completely wrong. Here's an article about it;

http://www.mib.org.uk/Motor+Insurance+Database/en/Continuous+Insurance+Enforcement/default.htm

If this is the case, there is very little you can do about it. It's not as if you can retrospectively apply insurance. Personally I'd say don't worry about it unless you get one of those letters, if you do get a letter then speak to someone about whether it can be contested.

Anyway, an N10 is driving without insurance, which you weren't.

 

[Howrare]

Magic! Cheers Slimy. If as the article states you get the chance to do something about it then all is well. No way they could say that I hadn't tried, and 36 hours uncovered non useage hardly amounts to not "taking action"

Tolly is washed, and I am off for a fully insured drive.

Have a good weekend, and thanks for the info.

 

[andycupra]

its a complete mess.
I had a similair situation but due to swapping cars about etc which meant for 3 days i had a car not insured. So i put it on the drive and declared SORN on the car for the 3 days...
Now, when you declare SORN it says you can claim back any remaining road tax, fine, but as it was for 3 days there is no need for me to do this..

So then after 3 days and having everything sorted i went back on the website to get the SORN removed..
mmm thats funny, there is no 'remove SORN' function... after spending AGES reading through the site the closest it gets to telling you how to remove it is by using the SORN process. Ok this makes some sense so i repeated the SORN process expecting it to say this car is currently SORN'd, and then give an option to remove it....
No luck, it just SORNs it again.

ok i will call the DVLA.. and you know this meant a massively long call being passed from dept to dept..
finally i get told, the SORN is removed when you buy road tax.

me: "but its already taxed"
DVLA: "no it isnt"
me: " yes it is"
DVLA " not according to our system"
me "im by the car now, i can see the tax disk on my car right now.. (then gave them details)"
DVLA: "thats been cancelled"
me: "when / who did that?"
DVLA: " you cancelled it"
me: " no i didnt"
DVLA " it was cancelled when you declared SORN"
me: "I definately did not cancell it"
DVLA: its canelled automatically when you declare SORN"
me: "automatically cancelled!? - how am i supposed to know this, you dont inform me of this"
DVLA " the site says it cancels the road tax"
me: " no its, doesnt"
DVLA: "yes it does"
me: " no it does not! i have never been told its cancelled, ever"
DVLA " the website definately does say its cancelled"
me: it definately does NOT, do you want me to repeat the process now and read it out to you?
silence...
me: "i can assure you 100% it says you can reclaim any remaining road tax, - at no stage does it say that the road tax has been cancelled!"
DVLA: "hold on..." pause "hello, it definately says the road tax is cancelled"
me: "no it does not, - i can assure you of this, - however as its cancelled can i buy a new road tax please as i need to drive to work in a couple of hours"
DVLA: "certainly sir, (pause), hold on there is a problem.."
(Wait)
DVLA: "how long ago did you declare SORN?"
me: few days ago and again about an hour ago - as instructed to by your inaccurate website to remove SORN"
DVLA: " why did you do that?"
me: "i just told you, - as your website instructed me to when i was trying to remove SORN"
DVLA: "unfortunately there is a 2-3 day delay on the system and as you have just declared SORN you cant apply online for another tax disk for a few days, possibly a week"
me: "what!? - this is rediculous"
me: "so lets be clear, - i have had a gap of 3 days in the insurance, and to stay 100~% legal i declared SORN... the website cancelled by road tax without telling me.." i then have a tax disk on my car that has been cancelled, but i am not aware of this and so blissfully unaware of this. I then follow the website insuctions to remove SORN and now i cannot get tax renewed after speaking with you."
DVLA: " thats correct"
me: "so the webiste is wrong, are you going to correct it to save 1000s of others falling fowl of this?"
DVLA: " the website is correct"
me " no it isnt"
......
me: "Can i talk to your supervisor?"
DVLA " why do you need to speak to them?"
me: "to highlight this issue and get it resolved and explain my situation"
DVLA: "ok but im not sure what they can do"
me: "thanks" (im thinking thanks for nothing)

supervisor: "hello"
(i then give an overview of the issue)
supervisor: "yes there is an issue with the website and we know in some circumstances it doesnt work very well"
me: "so you agree there is an issue, ive done nothing wrong and you know the website has been wrong for some time?"
supervisor "we are aware of some issues"
me: " well now ive highlighted this one can you make sure it gets corrected?"
supervisor " i will report it"
me: "ok so that will be corrected, what can i do about getting to work?"
supervisor: "you could get tax at a post office"
me: " are you sure they wont be blocked by the SORN system also?"
supervisor: "i am not sure"
me: "hehe, ok.. and how do you propose i get to the post office thats 7 miles away anyway?"
supervisor: im afriad that is for you to arrange, you will be commiting an offence if you use your car"
me: even though i have a road tax disk with 9 months on it on the car right now?"
supervisor: " yes"
me: "and ive got to buy the new road tax out of my own pocket and get the road tax i have already paid refunded?"
supervisor: "yes"
me: "how long will it take to get my tax refunded?"
supervisor: "about 6-12 weeks"
me: " this is madness"
supervisor: " im sorry sir thats how the system works"

at this point i will stop the recount of this... but the system is F***ing useless! and the website the last i saw had not been updated..
But i do see they give now say they give you 7 days leaway if your raod tax runs out, (ie if you get road tax 1-7 days late then you wont get automatically fined), - but they do say you will get fined if caught on the road.
So they seem to be in the know that the system is slow and ineffective.
As regards for a small gap in insurance i dont think you willl be in trouble, you certainly should not be!
I think in practical terms there is an unofficial period of leaway, say a week. But then i also suspect it depends how busy the DVLA are at anyone time whether they persue things.

Honestly, all dealings ive had with the DVLA have left me dumfounded. I once also successfully got them to back down after trying to fine me after refunding me my road tax for a car that was SORN'd and offroad, but only after providing phone records, copies of letters sent, photos showing car was partially dismantled and undriveable at the time and basically refusing to back down after they repeatably trying to bully me.

I hope you are ok, you should be, whatever you do keep records if you do have issues.

**RANT END**

*this post is to my recolection accurate, im sure however its not exactly word for word correct, but pretty damm close.

 

[Slimy]

Andy, your example sounds absolutely spot on for the incompetent buffoons at DVLA. I am on a kit car forum, and you can imagine that to get a kit car on the road requires far too much interaction with the DVLA. And none of it is good.

 

[andycupra]

being incompetant is one thing, - im actually a realist and if people make mistakes i have no problem if they then try to correct them.
but being allowed to be incompetent while being free to fine, punish and significantly effect peoples lives via bans, points and restrictions is another.
also knowing you are incompetent, effectively admitting this, but then refusing to accept that you or your 1000s of colleagues or systems is ever wrong is yet another.


imagine if a bank operated like the DVLA do..

 

[Howrare]

What a ball ache! Thankfully this shall be the last time I have to do any of this. I'll be importing my car into Austria next year. On the down side that is a pretty involved process in itself, albeit a one off. New headlights and an inspection at the local version of the RAC/AA and a small pile of euros. Then I pay my insurance, pay for my number plate, and away I go. All dealing with real people. I think thats were the big difference is. The UK bureaucracy fall back to much on flawed computer systems and the human element is totally removed.

Thanks for the replies, and help.

 

[Slimy]

The UK bureaucracy fall back to much on flawed computer systems and the human element is totally removed.

Having been involved in some of those computer systems (not specifically the DVLA ones though) I can totally agree, unfortunately as with everything they were done to a budget with the only requirement being 'it goes out the door on time'...