Leon 2.0TDI 140BHP Limp Mode / Turbo

[bobak]

Hi,
I've bought a 56 plate Leon 2.0TDI 140BHP with about 65k on the clock. Reference Sport, BTCC kit etc.

I test drove the car, had a look around and it was pretty good. The only thing that seemed odd was that when the car had warmed up it took longer to start.. ie/ rather than just starting when you turn the key, you had to hold the key for a few seconds and it would splurt into life. Being my first diesel I assumed this wasn't a big issue.

Anyway, the car still starts fine - same issue, but no big deal I don't think...

I drove the car away and about 50 miles away the Emission Control Light came on. I had SEAT check it and it was a faulty throttlebody - bad luck - but I had it replaced and no worries.

My latest problem is that on the way to work (40miles each way) intermittently it just goes into limp mode and I am restricted to about 60mph. Fuel consumption seems normal - about 41-44mpg.

Both the AA and the local Jag garage plugged it in and got the same fault P0234 Overboost. Then I noticed a lot of wooshing when I accelerated. Turned out to be the Intercooler clip had broken, so the Jag garage replaced the 68p part... with £60 of labour.
The limp mode then came back about 2 weeks later. I now seem to get it roughly every other week. When I turn the car off and back on, it's cleared.
No excessive smoke from the rear, no visible leaks or odd noises, however before it goes into limp mode I tend to get a little hiccup from the car like a bad gear change.

The car gets a good run everyday, almost no short journeys at all and always driven fairly hard. Esso Diesel generally used (good price and not supermarket).

I called SEAT and asked and they said they would need to see it, but that they think it's sticking vanes due to a dirty turbo - so it seems the person before me may have toodled around town in it.

My question is - are there any other diagnosis? Is this likely to be correct? and most of all... what labour/parts (gaskets) should I expect to pay from SEAT or from an independant garage?

 

[bobak]

Oh just one other note I forgot - there seems to be some interference from the aftermarket stereo and amp the previous guy fitted. It looks like a good job was done round the battery for power and cables under the floor etc, but when the stereo is on, there's a constant high pitch whine. I'm not sure if that has any bearing at all... can't see how it would.

Also when the fault occurs, there's no engine warning light.

Just for the record - I have searched and read lots about people's similar issues and I do think it is a sticking vane but I thought i'd pose the question and my bigger question is really what cost I should expect.

Thanks,
Bob

 

[cupralite]

This sounds familiar to me. See Post #3 of the following thread!

http://www.seatcupra.net/forums/showthread.php?t=351987&highlight=engine+deep+clean

 

[bobak]

Right, cool. Sounds like a start. Any idea of who does that in the Bristol or Cardiff areas?
I'm taking it to SEAT asap and they said they'd either clean it or remove the turbo, clean it then fit new gaskets etc and refit. Sounds expensive.

 

[bobak]

I had a long chat with a reputable Diesel specialist yesterday.
He advised me not to clean the turbo. Apparently the way I drive the car (only long distances and driven hard) means that the turbo would almost definitely not be dirty.
On top of that, he advised that cleaning the turbo is a quick fix that will only last a very short time if that was the issue and that it's a waste of money as it's just delaying a new turbo anyway.

He advised that it's more likely to be a MAP or similar sensor, could be a more underlying error like a hairline crack in a vacuum hose etc.
Also, I had a new throttlebody fitted when I got the car and the garage didn't reset the "adaptations", so that may also be causing the issue... this is where not being a mechanic doesn't help!

I'm going next Thursday, so lets see what he says.
Thanks,
Bob

 

[cupralite]

I had a long chat with a reputable Diesel specialist yesterday.
He advised me not to clean the turbo. Apparently the way I drive the car (only long distances and driven hard) means that the turbo would almost definitely not be dirty.
On top of that, he advised that cleaning the turbo is a quick fix that will only last a very short time if that was the issue and that it's a waste of money as it's just delaying a new turbo anyway.

He advised that it's more likely to be a MAP or similar sensor, could be a more underlying error like a hairline crack in a vacuum hose etc.
Also, I had a new throttlebody fitted when I got the car and the garage didn't reset the "adaptations", so that may also be causing the issue... this is where not being a mechanic doesn't help!

I'm going next Thursday, so lets see what he says.
Thanks,
Bob

Interesting.

Like I said, it was a problem with my g/f's Corsa, not my Leon but it definitely sounds similar. The fault codes from her said it was going into limp mode bacuase of overboost and that the MAP sensor or barometric sensor were at fault. One garage told her she would definitely need a new turbo as the vanes would be sticking open due to being covered in soot, causing the overboost.

We went to another garage who said the engine intake system was clogged up, which we knew anyway, having taken the MAP sensor out - it was covered in filth, as was the inlet manifold. His take on the situation was that the inlet manifold / pipework was clogged up with soot, which narrows the pipes, causing overboost and that we might as well try cleaning which is much much cheaper than a new turbo. It would have gone to the scrapyard rather than having a new turbo due to what it's worth. He ran the de-coke and all limp mode problems stopped. It pulls as well as it ever did before (not well, its a 1.3 Corsa!) in the 5 months since she had it done, there have been no problems whatsoever.

Clearly the diesel specialist will know better than a mechanical-buffoon like myself! Good luck with sorting it out.

 

[bobak]

Thanks.

Bit of an update today. Went to SEAT, got limp mode on the way there, grr.

They showed me the fault code "Turbo Overboost - Intermittent" P0234

They said "your turbo is coked up, it either needs a clean or new turbo".
I then spoke to Turbo Technics (turbo specialists) and they said "needs a new turbo, cleaning won't last if work at all".
I then spoke to our family mechanic (over 25 years) and he said "dirty turbo, cleaning doesnt work, needs new turbo".
So i'm getting conflicting info, but all of the above told me that the diesel specialist was talking rubbish, so i'm wondering whether he was just trying to get me to do a load of work and pay him or maybe just different opinions.

Either way, new turbo is about £1,100 or Turbo Technics will supply a reconditioned one for £322 +vat

What I couldn't work out was who the hell to believe!!

I think I know though - most of the internet, plug SEAT, a trusted mechanic and a turbo specialist lol.

 

[joolsvern]

I posted a similar issue and I still go into limp mode now and again. It is always while doing higher speeds and usually when I stick my foot down (ie when I want to accelerate past someone). I don't do much motorway driving at all (which is when it happens 95% of the time) and the problem has not got noticeably worse. I was thinking of following the advice from the alst post in the thread I started....

http://www.seatcupra.net/forums/showthread.php?t=328922, £40 is a cheap possible fix but to be honest I can live with it as it is perhaps once a month it happens and I simply turn ignition on and off to recover (usually while doing 60 down M18), worse case scenario I have to limp along until there is enough space to do it safely although it takes all of 2 seconds.

Off then On I meant, ignition that is!!

 

[koush]

if it helps I had a golf mk4 tdi 150 and had a similar fault of overboost fault. I went down the road of having it cleaned. I told the garage if it does not work will they put some of the cost toward the replacement of a turbo, which they agreed. They removed the turbo, cleaned it all out and refitted. Worked great for about 3 months and then the fault reocurred. went back to the garage and they stood by their word. they paid for the removed/refit of turbo and I paid for the turbo. Bottom line is that cleaning does not work, if it does its for a very short time. after fitting the turbo, I did another 30k miles after selling it. By the way, which diesel specialist did you go to? was around the bristol area?

Koush

 

[bobak]

Weird, I bought this one from near Sheffield

 

[bobak]

I didn't go there but it's called DCS in brislington, Bristol.

 

[h47kin]

my 2006 pd140 has the same fault....but it only occurs when accelerating up a steep hill/mountain at high speeds...it has always happened at over 70mph and most of the time over 90... i've been told its probably sticking vanes but that doesnt seem to make sense to me as the neither gets driven on short or slow journeys. It used to be a rare occurrence but is becoming a more frequent problem

 

[bobak]

Sounds like the same thing...would be nice to see SEAT help us out a bit here!

Can we get this added to the common faults log section?

 

[h47kin]

i've had just about every common fault on mine! if you find anything out let us know

 

[joolsvern]

Would like to see if that decoke thing (the one they did on the jag on wheeler dealers) would clean the turbo out properly to the point of not needing to get a new/refurb.

 

[bobak]

Everyone I've spoken too: Seat, independent diesel specialist, trust family mechanic and turbo specialist "turbo technics" told me not to waste my time cleaning it as its an expensive way to put the problem off for a few weeks.
Seat wanted £450 to clean it too

 

[bobak]

Latest update... brand new OEM turbo on the way... *sigh*

 

[bobak]

 

[joolsvern]

How much was that then? Mine's been fine for quite a while now even though I have done a few motorway trips, if it ain't "broke" don't fix it is my moto

 

[bobak]

£452 brand new. My fuel consumption has dropped a fair bit and the power delivery isn't as smooth as when I first got it so think the turbo replacement should be a winner. Better be anyway