Leon 1.8 TSI FR, Hidden numbers!

[lamds]

Hi guys,

Recently have been released from the VW group the new Polo GTI, that is using the same engine as the Leon FR. What catch my attention was the fact on their launch specs appeared some differences on the torque output depending on the having or not DSG;

The numbers are;
6mt
Power; 192 CV
Torque; 320 Nm

DSG (7 sppeds)
Power; 192 CV
Torque; 250 Nm

Looking to the Leon 1.8 TSI we all know that the announced 180CV are a little bit below to the true output of this engine, and again comparing the max power output with the Polo GTI, they should be pretty much the same.
What I curios is if either WV developed 2 different ECU maps or there is a simpler limitation mechanism that may be removed through VCDS to get the extra 70Nm announced on the GTI?

Please share your thoughts!

Best regards,
Luís Sousa

 

[simonali]

The DSG only has a low torque rating, so it has probably been limited somehow...

 

[JMAC]

Is it the limitation on the gearbox? I think the 7 speed DSG can't take the same amount of torque as the 6 speed, as they are dry cooled rather than wet cooled (oil bath). It's circa 184 lb ft torque IIRC, which is coincidentally 250 Nm.

 

[guari]

Yes Seat used a low output dsg box (7 speed dry dsg) for the 1.8FR mk3 that is rated only to run up to 250.. I thought of doing a tune on mine but then I'm risking the box, that's a no go with me..

They really should have put the 6 speed wet box...

 

[lamds]

Well, my point here is more about the ones that have mt6. I know that the DSG7 is limited to 250 Nm, but as for the mt6, there isn't such limitation and the figures shown by the Polo GTI are much more like the type of natural output that we should expect from the 1.8 TSI engine.

 

[shutcorea]

I have the 1.8tsi gen3 engine on my leon and after a remap I got 257hp and 302lb ft of torque (measured with 3 dyno runs) and mine is DSG...

Gearbox is fine, no problems whatsoever. Maybe clutches are wearing out faster than Seat/VW specification

When car was bone stock it measured 191.2 hp and 219lb ft of torque on the dyno.

 

[GrahamFR]

Well, my point here is more about the ones that have mt6. I know that the DSG7 is limited to 250 Nm, but as for the mt6, there isn't such limitation and the figures shown by the Polo GTI are much more like the type of natural output that we should expect from the 1.8 TSI engine.

It will be a different map on the ECU, VW have reigned it in for the DSG but released it for the manual. You can change the map on your Leon to produce the exact number or much more with a decent tuner.

Reason its not different on the Leon 6mt and dsg is beyond me though, perhaps they didn't bother making a 2 different maps for it the lazy spaniards

 

[lamds]

It will be a different map on the ECU, VW have reigned it in for the DSG but released it for the manual. You can change the map on your Leon to produce the exact number or much more with a decent tuner.

Reason its not different on the Leon 6mt and dsg is beyond me though, perhaps they didn't bother making a 2 different maps for it the lazy spaniards

Probably is what I’ll do latter on, but for now I don’t want to void the guarantee. My idea was that the ECU map was the same for all, but with some kind of flag that manages to limit or not the torque values!

Who knows if Seat decides to release an engine update with similar options for our cars

 

[surrealjam]

I have the 1.8tsi gen3 engine....

When car was bone stock it measured 191.2 hp and 219lb ft of torque on the dyno.

Wow! That's a lot higher than the quoted 180ps or 177hp.

Sorry to hijack the thread a little, but has anyone had the 1.4 140ps on a dyno on stock set up to see the actual output?!

 

[JMAC]

I recall reports of the MkII Octavia vRS' coming out of the factory with anything from 195 - 210 bhp, they were officially meant to be 197.

Autocar did a group test and the only car that beat the vRS in a 0-62 test was the Astra VXR which had close to 240 bhp. The Golf GTI had the same TFSI engine and was lighter but still couldn't keep up. The official response from VAG was that they have found that manufacturing tolerances rendered some of the TFSI units more potent than others.

Not sure how true that is (?) Perhaps Skoda just done some witchcraft with the map on the press car in order to embarrass it's more upmarket cousin.

 

[simonali]

Skoda have form on that front. When Autocar did their 0-100-0 test with the mk1 Octavia vRS the general consensus was that the car had a 225 engine from an Audi under the bonnet.

 

[JMAC]

Indeed. Though they are very conservative with their official 0-60 time on the Mk1 Fabia vRS - 9.5 seconds.

It was nowhere near that slow. Mine was easily as quick as my 184 FR.

Autoexpress had one remapped and it was quicker than a BMW 330d.

 

[GrahamFR]

Wow! That's a lot higher than the quoted 180ps or 177hp.

Sorry to hijack the thread a little, but has anyone had the 1.4 140ps on a dyno on stock set up to see the actual output?!

dtuk has had the 1.4 on a dyno and have a box for it, dont know if theyve published the stock figures though but Andrew will know if you ask him

 

[lamds]

Recovering this thread, I've found a similar dough on a German forum;
https://www.seat-leon.de/vboard/sho...S-VS-1-8-TSI-Polo-GTI-HS-Unterschied-Getriebe

However, I wasn't able to fully understand their conclusions. It's a software or a hardware change that allows the different output? Can anyone help me?

 

[Bill Pal]

I have the 1.8tsi gen3 engine on my leon and after a remap I got 257hp and 302lb ft of torque (measured with 3 dyno runs) and mine is DSG...

Gearbox is fine, no problems whatsoever. Maybe clutches are wearing out faster than Seat/VW specification

When car was bone stock it measured 191.2 hp and 219lb ft of torque on the dyno.

apr? or revo?or etuners? are u ok with no problems.......what else u have change?