Leon 1.6 SX

[doobs]

My son bought a used one of these last November.

On the day we purchased it at the non franchsied dealers they let slip that it had run out of fuel shortly before we picked it up.

Ever since he has owned the car it has been plagued with issues such as intermittent cutting out, erratic idling and numberous EML illuminations and codes as below

on 10.12.11

16786 EGR valve flow rate
P0402 EGR Excessive Flow
17550 Load determination level not reached
P0106 Manifold pressure range circuit fault
P17550 Load calculation cross check
P1142 Lowe limit exceeded

and probably one or two others I may have forgot to note down

& on 19.2.12

P1180 linear O2 sensor / Pump current short to B+ 17588 - diagnosed as being faulty linear 02 sensor, so sensor subsequently replaced by my local Seat dealer - now EML and same code has come on again despite new 02 sensor fitted - this suggests to me that 02 sensor was not faulty in first place, as something else (possibly ECU?) may have thrown sensor - now dealer says ECU is at fault - £1100 to replace!

Now in dilemma - do we get second opinion, sell car, source ECU from another supplier etc as seems very expensive
Its such a shame as it has all the makings of a really nice car, but let down by too many issues

I guess I would like a second opinion (and don't mind paying for it) but need someone who is an expert in this field and will not charge me the earth! I am in Ipswich area if anyone knows anybody worth taking it to!

- any advice appreciated

 

[Jirwin]

16786 EGR valve flow rate
P0402 EGR Excessive Flow
17550 Load determination level not reached
P0106 Manifold pressure range circuit fault
P17550 Load calculation cross check
P1142 Lowe limit exceed

Suggests to me EGR valve, I've had all these on mine and have cleaned the throttle body and re-aligned it, and also changed the EGR and re-aligned it and run some injector cleaner through and it runs fine now. Do you have access to the full version of VCDS or VAGCOM? If you do you could try cleaning both then doing the re-alignment when you re-fit

Not sure on the O2 sensor one though

However before you stump up the money for a new valve wait and see if someone with more engine knowledge comes to confirm thats correct

 

[Daz8161]

I had an issue similar, car was idling rough with the rev needle bouncing up and down, car not starting when warm but starting cold.

I changed the lambda sensor, coolant temperature sensor and cleaned the EGR valve and car was perfect after. Only cost about 270 quid.

 

[Jirwin]

From Ross tech site:-

16786/P0402/001026 - Exhaust Gas Recirculation (EGR): Excessive Flow
Possible Symptoms

Malfunction Indicator Light (MIL) ON
Reduced Exhaust Gas Recirculation (EGR)
Reduced Power Output/Engine running rough
Increased Emissions

Possible Causes

Exhaust Gas Recirculation (EGR) Valve stuck open/leaking/faulty
Exhaust Gas Recirculation (EGR) System leaking/faulty
Wiring and/or Connector(s) from/to Exhaust Gas Recirculation (EGR) Valve faulty

Possible Solutions

Check/Clean Exhaust Gas Recirculation (EGR) System
Check/Replace Exhaust Gas Recirculation (EGR) Valve
Check Wiring and/or Connector(s) from/to Exhaust Gas Recirculation (EGR) Valve

16490/P0106/000262 - Manifold / Barometric Pressure Sensor (G71) / (F96): Implausible Signal
Possible Symptoms
Erratic Idle
Possible Causes
Wiring and/or Connections from/to Manifold/Barometric Pressure Sensor (G71)/(F96) faulty
Leak in Air Intake and/or Exhaust
Manifold/Barometric Pressure Sensor (G71)/(F96) faulty
Engine Control Module faulty
Possible Solutions
Check Engine Control Module Software Version
See Special Notes for Details
Check Timing
See Special Notes for Details
Check Wiring and/or Connections from/to Manifold/Barometric Pressure Sensor (G71)/(F96)
Check for Leak in Air Intake and/or Exhaust
Check/Replace Manifold/Barometric Pressure Sensor (G71)/(F96)
Check/Replace Engine Controle Module

17550/P1142/004418 - Load Calculation Cross Check: Lower Limit Exceeded
Possible Causes
Mass Air Flow Sensors (G70) faulty
Intake Air System faulty/leaking (false Air)
Throttle Pedal faulty
Throttle Body dirty/faulty
Possible Solutions
Check Mass Air Flow Sensors (G70)
Check Intake Air System
Check Throttle Pedal
Check Throttle Pedal Position Sensor (G79)
Check Throttle Pedal Position Sensor 2 (G185)
Check Throttle Body
Check Angle Sensor 1 for Throttle Actuator (G187)
Check Angle Sensor 2 for Throttle Actuator (G188)
Check Engine Control Unit

17550/P1142/004418 - Load Calculation Cross Check: Lower Limit Exceeded
Possible Causes
Mass Air Flow Sensors (G70) faulty
Intake Air System faulty/leaking (false Air)
Throttle Pedal faulty
Throttle Body dirty/faulty
Possible Solutions
Check Mass Air Flow Sensors (G70)
Check Intake Air System
Check Throttle Pedal
Check Throttle Pedal Position Sensor (G79)
Check Throttle Pedal Position Sensor 2 (G185)
Check Throttle Body
Check Angle Sensor 1 for Throttle Actuator (G187)
Check Angle Sensor 2 for Throttle Actuator (G188)
Check Engine Control Unit


Some of your codes are different but the same if that makes sense, as in you've got codes P1142, 17550 and p17550 but they are all under the same on Ross tech, also an EGR fault can cause a MAP sensor fault

 

[doobs]

Wow - thanks - keep the replies coming people!

Personally, I have wondered all along about EGR and throttle body issues etc but I have been told it is unlikely to be these - I have not been impressed by my local Ipswich Seat dealer over their diagnosis, service etc so far.

I still believe they did not investigate the issue thoroughly, so just replaced the most obvious thing (02 sensor) without spotting that something else may have thrown the O2 sensor out - the reason I say this is because once a new 02 sensor was fitted the EML and same code came on as before - I am no expert but it suggests to me therefore the 02 sensor was not faulty in the first place - if i am wrong about this folks, let me know!

I am in two minds about complaining to the dealer - I believe I have paid for something that did not need replacing - therefore I thought they should either remedy whatever the issue was free of charge or only make me pay a small amount - then they said ECU costing £1100 , so that has stumped me a bit and I need time to think!

 

[Jirwin]

Assuming you have the 1.6 BCB engine like me then its well known across VAG for having EGR problems and surprised your dealer didn't go straight to it.

To me, and I may be wrong, the EGR excessive flow would link in to the MAP and load calculation cross check, its dumping exhaust gas into the TB and a cause of the MAP error is "Leak in Air Intake and/or Exhaust" and a cause of Load calculation error is "Intake Air System faulty/leaking (false Air)"

It may or may not help you but Skoda were very helpful for me, maybe give them a try, I refused to use the local Seat dealer to me (not Swindon, they are very good) due to their inability to even lie consistantly

Not sure where complaining will get you, the same dealer you have lost faith in may want to try and make amends. Would you trust them to rectify when they have already cocked up?

 

[doobs]

Just an update - Decided to complain to my local Seat dealer

They agreed to revisit things and had the car for almost 3 weeks!

They identified an ECU fault and map sensor fault - so they decided to fit a second hand (warranted) ECU and thrust sensor - is this the same thing as a map sensor??
In their words they were 100% sure they had solved the various issues. The invoice also said they had tested and inspected engine vacuum hose, removed and cleaned egr valve and throttle valve. Although the communication was almost non existant (including not advising me what costs/if I was liable to pay anything) I hoped they had resolved things.
I was charged for their work (but admit the costs were reasonable given what was done) but just as we hoped all was good, the dreaded P1180 linear O2 sensor / Pump current short to B+ 17588 (which was originally diagnosed as being faulty linear 02 sensor and then subsequently replaced with a new sensor) code & EML has come back on. It appears we are now back to square one and it is soul destroying and I just wonder whether this can ever be solved! The dealers have agreed to have the car back again next week, so the saga continues

Any further thoughts anyone please?