LCR wheel bearing replacement help

[PSX]

Hi all,

The passenger side wheel bearing on my LCR is getting grumbly in roundabouts so I'm hoping to remove the wheel hub (knuckle) and get it to a garage with a press so they can swap the bearing for me.

I'm all set up for buying a 24" breaker bar and taking on the centre hub nut - what I'm struggling with is information on other bolts attaching the hub to the car.

Centre hub, 12-point nut on a LCR - 30 or 32mm?

The ball joint - there are 3 bolts on a small plate holding the lower part of it onto the wishbone. If I undo these, will the ball joint just lift out of the wishbone, or will I need some kind of tool?

Also the bottom of the suspension strut attaches to the hub - is this correct? Are any special tools needed to disconnect the two?

Finally - will the garage be able to use a press with the ball joint still on the hub? Otherwise I need a ball joint separator?

Any help very much appreciated!

One other question - if the driveshaft was to drop out or get dislocated, what's the process for refitting? I have read it is a nightmare but unsure why..


Thanks,

Alex

 

[hyphon12]

When I done my wheel bearing my hub "nut" was actually a bolt which required a 17mm allen key bit. Required a big 1/2" breaker bar and a metal bar to crack it off. Not sure what size is required for those with nuts.

When I Removed the hub I had taken the ball joint out the hub rather than out the arm so I don't mess the camber's geometry. I found it easiest to do undo last as you can pull hub away with the CV out the way to get it off. Shouldn't need a separator, I usually hit the hub with a hammer out where the joint is to shock it loose, just be careful not to hit the ball joint.

I think the ball joint would get in the way if you left it on the hub, I had mine stripped right down and was still a little awkward to steady it straight on the press.

EDIT: as for removing the strut from the hub its a bit off a ball-ache. My bolt came out ok but it taken quite a bit of time to get the strut out the hub as it was corroded up and fairly tight. Also used a hammer and started hitting the top of the hub assembly to knock it down off the strut. Use LOTS of release oil like WD40.

 

[Slimy]

The reason why the strut and hub separation was a bit of a ball-ache is that you have to actually open up the clamp! Once that's done the strut and hub just fall apart. You need one of these to open up the hub clamp (after removing the clamp bolt);

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/350486523845

It goes in the gap, you turn it 90 degrees and then it just comes apart.

I'd also recommend splitting the ball joint and leaving the ball joint attached to the wishbone, partly for it to be out of the way when it goes into the press and also to keep the geometry where it is.

Oh yeah, I would also recommend soaking everything in plusgas the night before. A penetrating oil is always a good idea, but WD40 is far from the best one available. Get yourself a tin of plusgas and you'll never use WD40 again!

 

[PSX]

Spot on advice lads, thanks very much! Cheers for the tips Slimy, spotted a couple of your posts in similar threads so glad to see your name pop up! Thinking I want to get a ball joint separator tool as the hubs are so expensive (£245!) - would this be what I'm looking for?: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Ball-Join...t=UK_Hand_Tools_Equipment&hash=item4d02e694b6 - not quite sure what size the LCR ball joints are!

Great to know that the strut will come out of the hub easily once separated and also that I can keep the alignment in check (garages had insisted that alignment would be required).

Just need to find out the size of that 12-point hub nut now..


Cheers,

Alex

 

[Phillc]

Knocking the old bearings out of the hub is fairly straight forward; take the cir-clip out then get a socket the right size, and knock it out with a hammer, i have done two sets via this method without any problems, the real PITA is the hub (The bit that has the wheel bolt holes in it) as it nearly always retains the rear part of the bearing on it and is a major ball ache to get off, that much so that the second time i did it i bought two new hubs they are alot cheaper than the main hub at around £45 each, it just saves ALOT of trouble, putting the bearing in is the reversal of fitting, just make sure its square and using a piece of wood as a buffer tap the bearing into the Main hub, i smear the face of the bearing with a little copper grease, it just helps the bearing in, then use the socket you used to tap the bearing out for the last few mm untill the bearings seated and you can then put the new cir-cip in. then re fit the hub to the car and slide the rotating hub in untill you can get the hub nut on and tighten up. By the way the early LCR's (210bhp) had a nut on the drive shaft the later ones (225) have a hex bolt.

The problem with separating the ball joint from the hub is that when you come to tighten it up, if the ball starts to slip you cant get the hex into the top to stop it spinning because the CV joint is in the way, the best option is to mark where the ball joint is located on the wishbone and undo the bolts, you could try to do it up before you refit the drive shaft but i think you would struggle to get it back in the hub.

 

[Slimy]

Yep, those impact separators are probably the best option. The screw type ones are the safest, but I've not yet found a ball joint that can be done with them!

The other way that I've heard people do it is to apply downward pressure on the wishbone (a breaker bar and bodyweight will do nicely), then smack the hub sharply with a metal hammer. The 'ting' works with the downward pressure to break the tension of the ball joint. If you leave the nut on the last few threads of the ball joint the wishbone won't drop right down. My brother in law uses it as the default separator now, and considering his car of choice is a 1990 Vauxhall Astra GSI, the technique works even with 20 year old Vauxhall parts!

 

[PSX]

Thanks, definitely tricky to know how separating the joints will work out but I'm liking the second technique!

If I feel confident about swapping the bearing myself I'll give it a bash, can't pick out the £45 part on this diagram though:

1 - wishbone - 1J0407151C - £56.50 each (not sided)
1 - LCR wishbone left - 1ML407151 - £125 each
1 - LCR wishbone right - 1ML407152 - £125 each
** wishbones come with bushes fitted but NOT balljoints
11 - balljoint left - 1J0407365H - £22.40
11 - balljoint right - 1J0407366H - £22.40
13 - bolt - N10127707 - 55p each
11A - LCR balljoint - 8N0407365C - £31.85 each (not sided)
13A - nut - 55p each
2 - plate - 1J0407175B - £1.90 each
4 - front bush - 357407182 - £8.25 each
4 - LCR front bush - 1ML407182 - £10.25 each
5 - bolt - N90484004 - £1 each
3 - rear bush - 1J0407181 - £10.40 each
3 - LCR rear bush - 8N0407181B - £16.65 each
6 - bolt - N10262202 - £1.45 each
7 - nut - N0150816 - 60p each
17 - nut - N90321302 - 45p each
19 - wheel bearing - 1J0498625 - £34.55
19 - LCR 225 wheel bearing - 8L0498625 - £33.25

At the moment I'm wavering between impact driver and long breaker bar when it comes to the centre hub nut - thinking breaker bar at £28 is expensive but will be invaluable when I find seized bolts elsewhere..


Alex

 

[Phillc]

Number 14.

 

[Slimy]

You won't remove that nut with an impact driver, an air gun would possibly do it but the best option is a breaker bar. And as you say they come in very useful elsewhere. This is what I bought;

http://www.machinemart.co.uk/shop/p...230-1-2-drive-breaker-bar?da=1&TC=SRC-breaker

I usually take the centre cap out of the wheel, put the wheel back on and drop it to the ground. Then undo the centre nut/bolt (part 16) with the breaker bar, with the weight of the car stopping the wheel and hub turning. Then once it's loose, jack it back up and undo everything.

Don't forget you'll need a torque wrench to put it back together again.

 

[Phillc]

I usually take the centre cap out of the wheel, put the wheel back on and drop it to the ground. Then undo the centre nut/bolt (part 16) with the breaker bar, with the weight of the car stopping the wheel and hub turning. Then once it's loose, jack it back up and undo everything.

Yep same here.

 

[PSX]

Thanks - that 36" breaker bar is a beast, cheaper than the 24" halfords one!

Last thing to be concerned about is whether the knuckle will put up a fight in parting from the stub driveshaft, not a clue how much trouble it'd cause if I accidentally pulled this out of the gearbox..


Cheers,

Alex

 

[Phillc]

You cant pull it out of the gear box its held in place by six bolts. Not sure what you mean by "Knuckle" once you have undone all the required bolts and nuts the hub assembly will pull away from the CV joint.

 

[Slimy]

Phill is right about not being able to pull it from the gearbox, but it is possible to accidentally separate one of the CV joints. I did it when I changed my suspension, I'd left the driveshaft bolted in place and accidentally pulled on the hub. The driveshaft suddenly ended up being two inches longer than it should have been!

But since you're undoing the driveshaft, you shouldn't have that trouble. You should find the hub and driveshaft separates fairly easily though, if not just give the driveshaft a bit of a tap on the end to dislodge it from the hub.

 

[PSX]

CV joint - that's what I was on about! Well I shall be careful and hope that I won't need to know how to reassemble one

Thanks for the help, just got to find the best time to get the job done now!

Alex

 

[Ben 05LCR]

Does anyone know the correct torque settings for the Hub nut?

I saw a guide for a MK4 golf that said 300Nm, then back off 180 degrees then tighten to 50Nm, then tighten a further 90 degrees.

Can anyone confirm for a Leon Cupra R 225 (later version with the hex bolt if that makes a difference)

Cheers

 

[PSX]

Hub nut tightening procedure:

http://www.seatcupra.net/forums/showpost.php?p=3548473&postcount=2
Step 11
Hand tighten the centre CV joint nut then refit your wheel. Remove axle stands and lower the car to the ground.
Now tighten the hub nut .....
Note Haynes torque settings for the nut are:
Stage 1: tighten to 200Nm
Stage 2: Slacken by one half-turn
Stage 3: rotate wheel one half-turn
Stage 4: tighten to 50Nm
Stage 5: Angle tighten through 60 degrees
http://www.seatcupra.net/forums/show...nt+replacement

 

[Ben 05LCR]

Spot on thanks mate!

 

[PSX]

I've been agonizing over the best way to do this a bit more - mainly the fact that my timing would need to be spot on to get the hub knuckle out on a Friday night/Saturday morning in time to get it to a garage (with the right tool to go over the ABS ring) to press out the hub centre piece and do the bearing swap.

So I was back on google as I'd spotted information previously on guys having assembled their own bearing pullers out of nuts/bolts/washers when I came across this photo set from a guy who did the job on his TT: http://public.fotki.com/mikeism/mike/audi-tt-1/front-wheel-bearings/ - he's got a bearing puller kit off ebay (£30 odd) and makes the job look fairly straightforward - that's if I replace the centre hub piece like Phillc recommended. The sketchy part is using what looks like a 100mm 3-leg gear puller to push out the hub centre from the knuckle (with a socket on one of the puller legs to stabilise it!).

The £45 extra cost for a new hub centre puts me off, but then my chances of getting the old bearing race off the centrepiece with a cheapy copy-dremel and chisel I would guess are limited. Considering that my local independent garage also asked me to supply this bit, I think my mind is now made up! Having unlimited time (a whole weekend) to do the job solo as opposed to getting stuck on Saturday and then having no car until Monday evening seems a far better idea.

Any comments on the photo set? I think so long as the gear puller can be made to sit on the LCR hub in the same way as the TT hub, looks okay?


Alex

EDIT - I stand corrected - hub centre piece is in fact over £90! Looks like I still need to find a way of getting that old bearing race off (or visit a garage)

 

[Slimy]

The only thing that I would say is on the back of this photo;

http://public.fotki.com/mikeism/mike/audi-tt-1/front-wheel-bearings/p7300108.html#media

You need a metal plate that is small enough to fit in the knuckle (as he describes it) but presses against the bearing. That wouldn't be a problem for someone like me with lots of bits of metal lying around the garage, but if you haven't then you won't be able to push the bearing out.

The method is sound though, it's what I use to remove and replace bushes. And those pullers are quite useful.

By the way, whoever charged him £30 for a bearing puller saw him coming;

http://www.machinemart.co.uk/shop/product/details/clarke-6-inch-3-jaw-gear-puller-cht606

 

[PSX]

OK so I finally realised that about £90 worth of the tools in my shopping basket were purely for doing the bearing pressing and removing the old race from the hub piece. So I dropped all that and went for tools to get the knuckle freed.

This actually went pretty well - the ball joint separator tool was fine, it did try to slip but with firm pressure behind as it was cranked, both tie rod and balljoint popped out without any trouble.

Centre hub nut was very tight and the 36" breaker bar was a godsend - the bar was bending but was pretty confident that the head wouldn't break. All my weight on it and the car securely chocked and it loosened. The other problem was the strut bolt - I was applying turning force to the bolt head and this sheared with probably 80% of the force that I used for the hub nut - the bolt was heavily corroded and needed to be punched out with the end of a T-bar and a hammer. Expect to need to replace this bolt!

All other aspects were fine, the stub axle didn't want to drop out of the CV and the knuckle easily lowered out of the suspension strut once opened with the strut nut tool.

I took the knuckle down to a local garage and the bearing was pressed in exchange for some Fosters

With reassembly it helps a lot to have a second man to press the brake pedal - I first tried the tightening procedure quoted below - but this seemed to be far too loose. With the 17mm Allen type bolt, 50nM plus 60 degrees ended up at less than 100nM when I tested with the torque wrench!! The full weight of the car did sit on the bearing with this weight briefly and I am hoping no damage was done.

I retorqued to about 210nM on the torque wrench (assistant pushing brake pedal), slackened by 90 degrees, torqued it up again to 230 and then added (close to) another 90 degrees and this needed pretty much maximum effort. I would say it was probably as tight as it was when I removed (or very close) - I'm struggling to find exact torque settings for the 17mm allen type hub bolt.

So with all now reassembled, the noise seems to have dampened a bit but hasn't completely gone away! Can anyone comment on the torquing of the hub bolt or could the grinding turning right be coming from elsewhere? Differential?

Alex