Forced regen

Jarre

Active Member
Dec 9, 2011
5,365
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Stockton-On-Tees
I think you'd probably be wasting your time taking it in before you do that. If its tried to regen twice and not be able to I assume they'll see that on the logs? So they'd just do a forced regen again and that's it.

What am I getting myself into with these DPFs?! :(
 

Petecog79

Active Member
May 11, 2012
296
0
True mate, will my car pass mot with dpf deleted, and is it better to have custom pipe or guts removed,heard new regs mean dof must be on
 

Jarre

Active Member
Dec 9, 2011
5,365
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Stockton-On-Tees
New regs I think state that a visual check is done on the DPF, so you can get it gutted internally, and then put back on, so it will pass the visual check.

For MOT diesel doesn't need a CAT or DPF (just visual DPF check as above) and then it's just emissions tested.
 

Petecog79

Active Member
May 11, 2012
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Thing is when my wife drives it she always turns off mid regen, she is now educated lol, maybe ive been getting the car trying to complete its regen after shes been in
 

Jarre

Active Member
Dec 9, 2011
5,365
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Stockton-On-Tees
Possible. I'd take it for a good run on the motorway to make sure it does a regen properly and try again, and make sure she doesn't turn it off mid regen lol.
 

shnazzle

Glass-Half-Full Member
Sep 9, 2011
3,480
6
Northumberland
Dangerous discussion (very much argued) as the DPF is technically a catalytic converter (as well).

The long and short of it is:
A) Get it gutted, not removed. 99% your car will pass the useless smoke test.

B) Get it removed, and put back for MOT (pricey!), car will obviously pass MOT but you'd have to go through all that, along with telling your insurance company with each replacement.

Hence most people opt for A and hope for the best. The general news on the street is that de-DPFed cars are passing MOT. Older PD engines are dirtier, but the pass threshold is higher too.
 

Petecog79

Active Member
May 11, 2012
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Also how much smoke will it produce, seen some real bad ones on youtube, guy at sedox said it wont smoke
 

shnazzle

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Sep 9, 2011
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Also how much smoke will it produce, seen some real bad ones on youtube, guy at sedox said it wont smoke

Well mine's got the highest performance map that Sedox do before needing different hardware, and it only produces a short burst of thin smoke when I floor it.
Granted, again...the CR engine is different. It's cleaner.
So I would expect yours with DPF off to produce a tiiiiiny little bit more smoke when you boot it.

Might be more smoke than now, but still not enough to be really visible.
 
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Petecog79

Active Member
May 11, 2012
296
0
Yeah my car is a cr, are all these regens possibly normal if they getting interrupted
 

Jarre

Active Member
Dec 9, 2011
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Stockton-On-Tees
Yeah my car is a cr, are all these regens possibly normal if they getting interrupted

If the car has tried to regen and stopped part way through, then it won't have done it, next time it's started it still needs to do the regen, if it is then interrupted again it still needs to do it. That's how I'd view it anyway...
 

Jarre

Active Member
Dec 9, 2011
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Stockton-On-Tees
So how does this whole regen thing work? What makes it need a regen? Hard driving?
I sit down below 2000rpm 90% of the time.

Nope, the DPF collects the soot particles from the exhaust gases. Once it has reached a certain level of 'soot' it will burn off all of these soot particles, this is when your regeneration is taking place.

The regen can only take place when the exhaust system is hot enough - which is around 3000 RPM (I think) or higher.

Obviously a lot of town driving, or low rev driving, can cause problems with the DPF as it can't get hot enough for a regen to take place - eventually leading to problems as it becomes full.
 

shnazzle

Glass-Half-Full Member
Sep 9, 2011
3,480
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Northumberland
So how does this whole regen thing work? What makes it need a regen? Hard driving?
I sit down below 2000rpm 90% of the time.

Quite the opposite. It likes hard driving. By that I mean prolonged periods of high(er) revs.

It's a long story on how it works but an intensely abridged version:
- DPF collects soot (diesel particles)
- DPF needs certain temperature to break down soot into a myriad of other components that are less harmful
- If temperature is not reached because of not doing 20-30 minutes of motorway driving, or short start-stop drives; soot collects

- Car goes into "regen" mode to increase the temperature of the DPF to sort of emulate the conditions of a longer/harder drive. It ups turbo boost and runs leaner (to burn hotter).

That's full of half-truths, but it's the general idea

You want to sit ABOVE 2000rpm more.
If you're always below 2000rpm...may be better to go petrol or an older non-DPF car
 

CJRamze

Proud Seat Owner
Jun 29, 2008
2,015
2
Caldicot, South Wales
I'm gonna get this **** removed and mapped out as soon as possible sounds like a royal pain in the arse.
Its not my fault :( , my car keeps telling me to put it into 6th and get the revs really low!
If I wasn't doing 85 miles per day I would of Kept my LCR :(
 

shnazzle

Glass-Half-Full Member
Sep 9, 2011
3,480
6
Northumberland
I'm gonna get this **** removed and mapped out as soon as possible sounds like a royal pain in the arse.
Its not my fault :( , my car keeps telling me to put it into 6th and get the revs really low!
If I wasn't doing 85 miles per day I would of Kept my LCR :(

Don't listen to your car :)
Especially mine with DSG wants to be in stupid high gears. It'll sit there in 6th doing 40. It's ridiculous. So it gets a lot of manual paddle action from me
 

Deleted member 74601

Guest
Quite the opposite. It likes hard driving. By that I mean prolonged periods of high(er) revs.

It's a long story on how it works but an intensely abridged version:
- DPF collects soot (diesel particles)
- DPF needs certain temperature to break down soot into a myriad of other components that are less harmful
- If temperature is not reached because of not doing 20-30 minutes of motorway driving, or short start-stop drives; soot collects

- Car goes into "regen" mode to increase the temperature of the DPF to sort of emulate the conditions of a longer/harder drive. It ups turbo boost and runs leaner (to burn hotter).

That's full of half-truths, but it's the general idea

You want to sit ABOVE 2000rpm more.
If you're always below 2000rpm...may be better to go petrol or an older non-DPF car

This is not strictly true.

If you do a fair amount of motorway miles, depending your gearing you might be sat below/around 2000RPM (mine is 1900RPM in the Ecomotive). Doing motorway speeds at that RPM is enough to get the DPF hot enough to PASSIVELY regenerate, i.e it will not inject extra fuel into the system.

The DPF regeneration will start once you meet certain conditions, i.e soot loading, speed, RPM etc.

Here is some information for you.

My Turbo Diesel said:
The passive regeneration occurs with no action taken by the car's computer. It occurs with higher sustained engine loads like freeway driving or fast acceleration onto the highway when exhaust gasses are hotter. These types of loads will produce exhaust gas temperatures (EGT) of about 350-500ºC which thoroughly heat up and burn the DPF. If the car has only short stop-go trips, the exhaust doesn't have a chance to have a good passive burn off and will have more active regens or clog.

The active regeneration "self clean" occurs when filter soot loading is beyond 45% or every 466-621 miles (750-1000 kilometers), whichever is sooner. EGR is shut off and the fuel injectors squirt a little fuel into the engine cylinders after combustion (post combustion injection) that travels to the oxidation catalytic converter and oxidizes to raise EGT to around 600-650ºC. The gasses travel to the DPF and burn up the trapped particulates.

During an active regen the car's computer also temporarily increases turbo boost about 2-4 psi to make up for any lost power. Engine rpm also goes up around 200 rpm on the 2.0L engine. A cycle lasts about 10 minutes and if you shut the engine off in the middle of an active regen cycle, you'll hear the radiator fans in the front of the car running fast (even after the car is shut off) and you may smell a burning rubber type odor. It will resume once you exceed 38 mph after the next engine start (and the exhaust is warm enough).

If the car still can't do an active regen and soot loading reaches 50-55%, it will try to force a 15 minute regen cycle. If you interrupt it by shutting the engine off, the active regen cycle won't finish. There is normally no light or indicator to show when the car is doing an active DPF cycle. If the cycle was interrupted by engine shut off, it'll try again before lighting the DPF warning light on the dashboard (3 times IIRC). If that happens, drive at about 40 mph for at least 10 minutes in 4th or 5th gear at 2000RPM or higher (Disclaimer: faster would be fine as long as you don't exceed the speed limit).

At 75% loading, the glow plug light will also come on. If you see the warning, go to have the car service or go to the dealer so they can explain the warning lights to you. It's still possible to do a service regeneration, a manually started active DPF regen.

In the 2.0L engine, the automatic active regen is blocked by the car's computer once DPF loading reaches 40 grams. The service regen must be manually initiated using the procedure below. I'm not sure if the service regen is the same as the emergency 95% regen so try both methods below.

If clogging reaches 95% (45 grams) it must be manually removed and cleaned since all that combustion could damage or melt the filter due to extreme heat and pose a fire risk. There's a chance the repair would not be covered by the car warranty (maybe the federal emissions warranty) if you ignored the warning light or if the clogging is caused by your driving style.

It keeps saying 2.0L engine, but it's the same for all VW CR engines.

I've emboldened bits I think are important, for instance, a lot of people don't know about the regenerations after certain mileages, even dealers.

I've found from reading the net, I know more about DPFs than dealers do, for instance, one of them told me that the DPF would never try regenerating until the light came on, and was surprised when I pointed out it only came on after a few failed regens, or a certain percentage soot loading.

Where it mentions regen and emergency regeneration. Anything about around 80-85% I believe you should use the emergency regeneration option, but starting an active regen should be okay
 
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