Dpf regen

[dutumarcel]

Hi folks!

Got my 65 plate 2.0 tdi 184 2 weeks ago and put about 1300 miles on it. This is my first diesel car so not sure whether what I'm gonna relate below is normal.

I've seen 3 regens so far, 2 of which were inconveniently at the end of a journey. In both cases, the car was idling at 1k rpm and start stop was not available - clear signs of regen from I what I learned. In both instances, when I blip the throttle or drive away for a second, the idle drops to normal and start stop is available again. If I turn the car off, nothing else happens - no fans running.

I do short trips 3-4 times a week, about 8 miles one way and then drive it 100 mi + per day during the weekend. Isn't that long distance driving enough to passively regen the pdf?

Cheers!

 

[stu_m]

You usually find they do a regen around every 450 miles or so!

Seems pretty normal to what you are having

Don't worry about it and just drive the car

 

[dutumarcel]

You usually find they do a regen around every 450 miles or so!

Seems pretty normal to what you are having

Don't worry about it and just drive the car

Thanks mate! That's what I want to do, just drive the thing haha! Just a pita when it decides to regen when you want to get out. I plugged it in to my wee vw scanner and it said soot was at 5g and 24 min since regen so I assume the regen was successful.

Minor inconvenience though. I do like the car .

 

[SteveGSXR600K1]

I would keep an eye on the regens using your scanner. Check the time and miles since last regen. If you've got an Android phone, I'd recommend the VAG DPF app. They do a free version for you to have a play with. Most people on here see regens at 250 miles.
I wish there was a light or something to indicate that the car's doing a regen. Mainly for when you're on a journey, as you're not going to notice the higher idling, and not going to check if the stop/start is disabled every 5 mins, etc. The only thing I noticed, if I'm looking, is the instant MPG goes through the floor when it's doing a regen.

 

[SuperV8]

Hi folks!

Got my 65 plate 2.0 tdi 184 2 weeks ago and put about 1300 miles on it. This is my first diesel car so not sure whether what I'm gonna relate below is normal.

I've seen 3 regens so far, 2 of which were inconveniently at the end of a journey. In both cases, the car was idling at 1k rpm and start stop was not available - clear signs of regen from I what I learned. In both instances, when I blip the throttle or drive away for a second, the idle drops to normal and start stop is available again. If I turn the car off, nothing else happens - no fans running.

I do short trips 3-4 times a week, about 8 miles one way and then drive it 100 mi + per day during the weekend. Isn't that long distance driving enough to passively regen the pdf?

Cheers!

From what I have read cruising at the legal speed limit doesn't get the exhaust hot enough to carry out passive regen's - not enough load on the engine.
I find it hard to notice when its actively trying to regen when i'm driving - unless doing town driving and the stop start doesn't activate and it's idling high. I find a few times per tank full I come to a stop at work or home and the fans are on full bore for a few minutes as I walk away!
I have never had the DPF light come on - so I think all is working as intended - just WHY didn't they include a data screen showing miles since last regen or % full or something.

I have been advised by my diesel expert colleagues at work (who design OEM diesel systems) to avoid supermarket diesel in my common rail DPF equipped car. Not the super diesel stuff, just diesel from one of the big three - Shell, Esso or BP. The base stock is the same as the supermarkets but they use additional additives which are better for the CR pump and DPF, and I find for the couple pence higher price is negated by the better MPG.

 

[KXL]

Stinks too when it regens (from experience) when I had the 2.0TDI 150 Leon. My experience is if you put Shell Vpower Nitro Plus (or whatever it's called these days), thought at present, I guess no stations stock much fuel at all) it tends to regen less, plus gives the engine a good clean, might even get more mpg!

 

[SuperV8]

Stinks too when it regens (from experience) when I had the 2.0TDI 150 Leon. My experience is if you put Shell Vpower Nitro Plus (or whatever it's called these days), thought at present, I guess no stations stock much fuel at all) it tends to regen less, plus gives the engine a good clean, might even get more mpg!

Interesting about the smell - read that else where as well - but mine has never smelt whilst regening

 

[dutumarcel]

I would keep an eye on the regens using your scanner. Check the time and miles since last regen. If you've got an Android phone, I'd recommend the VAG DPF app. They do a free version for you to have a play with. Most people on here see regens at 250 miles.
I wish there was a light or something to indicate that the car's doing a regen. Mainly for when you're on a journey, as you're not going to notice the higher idling, and not going to check if the stop/start is disabled every 5 mins, etc. The only thing I noticed, if I'm looking, is the instant MPG goes through the floor when it's doing a regen.

Thanks for the reply mate! I'll probably go ahead and order that obd2 dongle then. I would prefer to drive it without thinking about it too much, but it's good to know when it's getting close to regen.

 

[dutumarcel]

From what I have read cruising at the legal speed limit doesn't get the exhaust hot enough to carry out passive regen's - not enough load on the engine.
I find it hard to notice when its actively trying to regen when i'm driving - unless doing town driving and the stop start doesn't activate and it's idling high. I find a few times per tank full I come to a stop at work or home and the fans are on full bore for a few minutes as I walk away!
I have never had the DPF light come on - so I think all is working as intended - just WHY didn't they include a data screen showing miles since last regen or % full or something.

I have been advised by my diesel expert colleagues at work (who design OEM diesel systems) to avoid supermarket diesel in my common rail DPF equipped car. Not the super diesel stuff, just diesel from one of the big three - Shell, Esso or BP. The base stock is the same as the supermarkets but they use additional additives which are better for the CR pump and DPF, and I find for the couple pence higher price is negated by the better MPG.

Thanks for the reply mate!

I normally use Shell or BP. I used a few tankfulls of shell v power but there doesn't seem to be any difference to how the car behaves, only my wallet cries a little haha!

I agree, it would have been good to have a little info about how long till active regen kicks in. I think I have just been a bit unlucky as the few times I noticed it, it was close to the end of a journey. For example, on Sunday, after a 100mi drive, i get off the motorway to head home and stop at a red light, about 10 min away from home. It starts a regen . You would think all that driving (and mind you I bought 180 hp, I'm using all of them!) would clear it.

It is what it is. We can't have our cake and it. We can't have decent power and economy without giving something up, in this case, looking after the dpf.

My previous car was a 1.0 80hp fiesta and so far this Leon has been brilliant! MPG is the same, maintenance, insurance, tax are the same. Power is 3 times more in the Leon though! Can't complain!

 

[dutumarcel]

Interesting about the smell - read that else where as well - but mine has never smelt whilst regening

Same for me, luckily no stinky smell! If you stand behind the car, you can defo feel the heat though!

 

[SuperV8]

Thanks for the reply mate!

I normally use Shell or BP. I used a few tankfulls of shell v power but there doesn't seem to be any difference to how the car behaves, only my wallet cries a little haha!

I agree, it would have been good to have a little info about how long till active regen kicks in. I think I have just been a bit unlucky as the few times I noticed it, it was close to the end of a journey. For example, on Sunday, after a 100mi drive, i get off the motorway to head home and stop at a red light, about 10 min away from home. It starts a regen . You would think all that driving (and mind you I bought 180 hp, I'm using all of them!) would clear it.

It is what it is. We can't have our cake and it. We can't have decent power and economy without giving something up, in this case, looking after the dpf.

My previous car was a 1.0 80hp fiesta and so far this Leon has been brilliant! MPG is the same, maintenance, insurance, tax are the same. Power is 3 times more in the Leon though! Can't complain!

I noticed yesterday an in vehicle status comment regarding start stop and being active or not.
I wonder if we could use this to determine if its undergoing a regen? Not the best to have this screen on all the time but maybe a work arround?

 

[SteveGSXR600K1]

I noticed yesterday an in vehicle status comment regarding start stop and being active or not.
I wonder if we could use this to determine if its undergoing a regen? Not the best to have this screen on all the time but maybe a work arround?

I use this if I notice it's doing a regen mid-journey. That way I'll at least know when it's finished.

I don't know if anyone else has noticed it before with theirs, but when mine does a regen with the car stationary and if I stand at the front of the car, you can hear a tapping/ticking noise. As soon as the regen stops, the noise stops. Not sure if the regen uses a separate injector to do the regen and it's that that's making the noise. If anyone's interested, I can put a video up of it.

 

[Tell]

I haven't noticed the tapping noise but the fans drown everything out. As you say about ~200 miles or so. You get the active / passive regenerations. In a DSG when it's doing a passive one it changes gear to work the engine more. I don't use any device on it to force regeneration or monitor it... let nature takes it's way. Try not to do short journeys. Won't do a journey shorter than 10 miles if I can help it. Coped well with the lock downs last year, round trips off 20 miles once a week. Don't use any special diesel in it. Asda's finest.

 

[BillyCool]

Just to clarify on a couple of things that I read above.

Firstly:

The DPF will only start a regen when:

a) The soot level in the DPF reaches a certain trigger point. According to VCDS, my 184 is 23.37 grams of soot.
b) Other conditions are met: coolant temp high enough, oil level not too low, diesel not less than 1/4 tank. There are others that I can't remember that will stop a regen taking place.

So - you drive 100 miles on the motorway and reach say - 23 grams of soot. Based on that, a DPF regen will not take place, even if you hammer the car - it's just not ready. You then drive those last few miles home and trigger a regen. Seems unfair doesn't it but that's how it works. Driving style has nothing to do with it at this point. If it aint ready, it aint ready.

The main thing is, if the DPF is not ready to regen (not reached the necessary soot level), then it doesn't matter that you were on the motorway etc. 5 mins ago doing 100mph, it will regen when it reaches it's trigger point. It's not an Italian tune up.

That's where VAG DPF is really good - you can see your soot levels building and basically guestimate when it will do a regen, or if it's doing one, how long you need to drive around until it's done. During a regen you can actually see the soot level dropping and it tells you when it's done.

Secondly:

Ref "how fast to drive during a regen"

It's not really about speed but exhaust temp and that is influenced by engine revs.

So - a nice hot DPF at regen is about 650 celcius. Some people think that you need to hammer the car to achieve that (fun, but not necessary). Ideally, the revs need to be about 2500+ to maintain that temp. You can drive at 50-55mph in 4th doing about 2500 revs and a passive regen can take place in 10-12 minutes.

I've done regens at 40, 50, 60 and 70mph. The one constant is the revs - keep those up above/around 2,500 and the temp stays up and the regen will finish. Just pick an appropriate gear. With VAG DPF, you can see the temp during a regen and if it starts to dip below 600, you put your put down for a few seconds and after a slight delay, the DPF temp goes back up. Maintain the revs and it will stay at temp, if the revs drop the temp drops.

An active regen is different as the car is artificially heating the DPF because you aren't driving it like you stole it or your driving type just doesn't allow it to do a passive regen. RPM's idle at 1,000 and the car effectively cooks the DPF to get it to temp. It does smell, stop/start is turned off etc. This sort of regen tends to take longer and does burn more fuel.

The technical bit that I don't fully understand is that an active regen can cause extra diesel used to heat the DPF ending up mixed with engine oil but I don't know to what extent or the exact causes (some say incomplete regens can do this).

So - a regen only takes place when the DPF reaches a trigger point. It's sods law if it happens 1 mile from home. Engine revs/temp is more relevant than speed to a successful regen.

VAG DPF will help you indentify DPF regens and you can go for a spirited spin around the block to help finish it off (NOTE: driving at warp speed will not make the process go any quicker).

My car on 110,000 miles and does a regen every 120 to 140 miles. It used to be 180 miles when commuting 20 miles each way. Now I do 5-8 miles most of the time, it reaches it's trigger point sooner as the car produces more soot when cold. I also think that the DPF is filling up so it regens more anyway.

Sorry about the essay. Someone might find it useful.

 

[Tell]

The other thing is active regens can flood the engine with oil. The unburnt oil used in an active regeneration flows back into the engine so your oil levels goes up on the dip stick . In reality it's just not a good idea to do weeks of short journeys without long ones now and again. Think its the law of mathematics that 40 short journeys over 200 miles will catch you out with s regeneration... keep doing that for 1000 miles and you have 5 active regenerations and if you cut these short each time by turning off then the unburnt diesel oil goes back into the engine.

The reality is unless you use the car on short school runs, popping to the shops or driving to the station on a commuter car / train run all the time, day after day, month after month, DPF isn't worth getting excited about.

 

[dutumarcel]

I noticed yesterday an in vehicle status comment regarding start stop and being active or not.
I wonder if we could use this to determine if its undergoing a regen? Not the best to have this screen on all the time but maybe a work arround?

I saw that too when I was searching the forum for dpf info. Unfortunately, in my car, the vehicle status screen does not change anything during regen. The only way I can tell is the car is idling at 1k rpm and, in the good days when regen starts at the beginning of a journey, the oil temp goes up really quick. MPG, takes quite a drop and the start stop icon in the dash is crossed out (mine's always off anyways as I don't like it).

 

[Tell]

Vag believe you dont need to know about DPF except with the warning when there is an issue. I keep my SS set to off all the time except when it goes in for service. Too dangerous with a DSG to use in busy traffic... my feeling anyway. Manuals they twitch the steering wheel and play with the clutch to defeat it. Still will all be history with EVs.

 

[SuperV8]

I saw that too when I was searching the forum for dpf info. Unfortunately, in my car, the vehicle status screen does not change anything during regen. The only way I can tell is the car is idling at 1k rpm and, in the good days when regen starts at the beginning of a journey, the oil temp goes up really quick. MPG, takes quite a drop and the start stop icon in the dash is crossed out (mine's always off anyways as I don't like it).

This is what mine displayed when I clicked 'start stop status' within the CAR menu and VIEW.

Seems in this instance SS was disabled - however my oil temps were only at 60 so wasn't hot enough I don't think to be actively regening - maybe is was 'planning' to regen? as it did start regen later in the journey - idle revs at 1000.

 

[SuperV8]

Just to clarify on a couple of things that I read above.

Firstly:

The DPF will only start a regen when:

a) The soot level in the DPF reaches a certain trigger point. According to VCDS, my 184 is 23.37 grams of soot.
b) Other conditions are met: coolant temp high enough, oil level not too low, diesel not less than 1/4 tank. There are others that I can't remember that will stop a regen taking place.

So - you drive 100 miles on the motorway and reach say - 23 grams of soot. Based on that, a DPF regen will not take place, even if you hammer the car - it's just not ready. You then drive those last few miles home and trigger a regen. Seems unfair doesn't it but that's how it works. Driving style has nothing to do with it at this point. If it aint ready, it aint ready.

The main thing is, if the DPF is not ready to regen (not reached the necessary soot level), then it doesn't matter that you were on the motorway etc. 5 mins ago doing 100mph, it will regen when it reaches it's trigger point. It's not an Italian tune up.

That's where VAG DPF is really good - you can see your soot levels building and basically guestimate when it will do a regen, or if it's doing one, how long you need to drive around until it's done. During a regen you can actually see the soot level dropping and it tells you when it's done.

Secondly:

Ref "how fast to drive during a regen"

It's not really about speed but exhaust temp and that is influenced by engine revs.

So - a nice hot DPF at regen is about 650 celcius. Some people think that you need to hammer the car to achieve that (fun, but not necessary). Ideally, the revs need to be about 2500+ to maintain that temp. You can drive at 50-55mph in 4th doing about 2500 revs and a passive regen can take place in 10-12 minutes.

I've done regens at 40, 50, 60 and 70mph. The one constant is the revs - keep those up above/around 2,500 and the temp stays up and the regen will finish. Just pick an appropriate gear. With VAG DPF, you can see the temp during a regen and if it starts to dip below 600, you put your put down for a few seconds and after a slight delay, the DPF temp goes back up. Maintain the revs and it will stay at temp, if the revs drop the temp drops.

An active regen is different as the car is artificially heating the DPF because you aren't driving it like you stole it or your driving type just doesn't allow it to do a passive regen. RPM's idle at 1,000 and the car effectively cooks the DPF to get it to temp. It does smell, stop/start is turned off etc. This sort of regen tends to take longer and does burn more fuel.

The technical bit that I don't fully understand is that an active regen can cause extra diesel used to heat the DPF ending up mixed with engine oil but I don't know to what extent or the exact causes (some say incomplete regens can do this).

So - a regen only takes place when the DPF reaches a trigger point. It's sods law if it happens 1 mile from home. Engine revs/temp is more relevant than speed to a successful regen.

VAG DPF will help you indentify DPF regens and you can go for a spirited spin around the block to help finish it off (NOTE: driving at warp speed will not make the process go any quicker).

My car on 110,000 miles and does a regen every 120 to 140 miles. It used to be 180 miles when commuting 20 miles each way. Now I do 5-8 miles most of the time, it reaches it's trigger point sooner as the car produces more soot when cold. I also think that the DPF is filling up so it regens more anyway.

Sorry about the essay. Someone might find it useful.

Very interesting,
Do you have a note on your oil consumption? Can't remember if you have shared previously.

 

[BillyCool]

Very interesting,
Do you have a note on your oil consumption? Can't remember if you have shared previously.

I have shared before but can't give you exact quantities as it's quite subjective.

I try to change my oil & filter every 5,000 miles, partly because I'm not a fan of this LL 20,000 mile oil change idea and also because I think my oil get's quite dirty anyway, possibly DPF related. I'm not really sure. I'm convinced the car like fresh oil on a regular basis, so it's gets it.

During a change I would top up oil and re-check a day later and top up again. I never really filled it right up to the max. Then about 3000 miles later I can get a low oil light. I top up (again, not fully) and might get a light on in another 2,000 miles (just before next oil change).

I reckon I must add about 500ml to 600ml in total over the 5,000 miles. You also have to factor in that I possibly didn't fully top it up after the oil change. When the light comes on, dipstick says 1/4 oil, so not `empty`. Is the light premature or set up that way? I have no idea.

I don't think my car burns oil excessively, and based on what else I've read, the EA288 does use a bit. Do the frequent DPF regens affect that? I don't know. I know that my pre-DPF MK1 PD engine never lost a drop between 10,000 mile oil changes.

I'm about to do an O&F change and I'm going to be using a different brand of 507.00 oil. I want to see if that has any impact on the regens. My change in driving from 20 miles each way to 5 miles each way certainly impacts how quickly the DPF fills up, but on a younger car, I think it would't regen as quickly. Got to accept that the DPF is probably getting tired (trying to get definitive answer on that is difficult).

It's a good car and if it needs a new DPF (or clean) at some point, it will get one.