common rail and dsg confimed for tdi fr

[tdifr]

From the horses mouth

Thank you very much for your e mail and your interest in the SEAT Leon. The slow process of migrating over to common-rail diesel engines has indeedbegun, starting with brand new models. Most current VW Group vehicles will gradually get common-rail diesels once they reach a major product change or new generation. Pumpe düse technology remains very effective, but theworkings of a common-rail system are more suited to the requirements of thenew Euro V emissions regulations, being phased in from 2010. I have spoken to James Bicknell in our product department and he has told me that they are bringing in the 2.0 litre 170 ps common rail dieselwith the DSG gearbox to the SEAT range but as of yet there is no confirmed dates for this to happen.

 

[Michael B]

Would a 170 CR engine be quicker than a 170PD engine?

 

[mister.c.]

So, reading between the lines & taking the post at face value..

When the Leon reaches 'a major product change or new generation' it will get them so I'm assuming that a mid life cycle re-fresh would meet that criteria so the Leon must have one before January 2010.

Otherwise they'll just bring it in when James wants to (perhaps when he's had enough of the DPF!)

To be fair its not rocket science that SEAT will bring in the new VAG diesels. So to say the horses mouth confirms they are going to use a VAG engine, but don't know when is, perhaps nothing new at all..

I think they'll introduce it sometime in the next 18 months..

 

[mister.c.]

Would a 170 CR engine be quicker than a 170PD engine?

How would you define quicker? 0-60 or a real world measure?

 

[Deev]

What are the main benefits to the common rail engine? I'm told the efficiency and emissions gains aren't huge, but it's a little smoother (although to be fair the 2.0 PD is pretty refined already in my opinion). Will the common rail be suited to biodiesel? I'm finding the PD's dislike of biodiesel to be quite annoying at the moment - especially since I've found somewhere selling it for under a quid a litre

 

[mister.c.]

What are the main benefits to the common rail engine? I'm told the efficiency and emissions gains aren't huge, but it's a little smoother (although to be fair the 2.0 PD is pretty refined already in my opinion). Will the common rail be suited to biodiesel? I'm finding the PD's dislike of biodiesel to be quite annoying at the moment - especially since I've found somewhere selling it for under a quid a litre

Well I guess the main benefit to Audi is that it meets the Euro 2010 standards.

To us - in the FR well i assume it will avoid the DPF lottery that many have endured, plus the CO2 emissions will be cut - in the TT its 140CO2 (and i think 139 in the A3) emissions, so Im guessing the leon will be 140-145 as opposed to 161 now. Moves it up the tax bands and a more desirable an option for many.

Its also supposed to be much quieter and more refined - I think the 140 and 170 lumps are quite noisy and a fair way behind a number of other diesels - see the reviews such as this one on the TT where perceptions of the benefits of the new engine are detailed:
http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/carreviews/firstdrives/221124/audi_tt.html

Don't know about the biodiesel.

 

[tdifr]

I think you are missing the point , DSG Is the real issue here since it would be the first time seat would have mated it with a 170 diesel.

you are right in saying it`s not rocket science that they will be using the crd, as it would be a little bit silly to have 2 production lines.

but seat got forgotten when audi and vw got the 170 and dsg.

 

[Bainie]

Commonrail diesel engines in Vx guise certainly wasn`t a success, thats why I went for the leon over an astra, when it hits vag I will need to look elsewhere again, as they are very fragile !

 

[devonmikeyboy]

Commonrail diesel engines in Vx guise certainly wasn`t a success, thats why I went for the leon over an astra, when it hits vag I will need to look elsewhere again, as they are very fragile !

What evidence do you have that they are fragile? Common rail engines have been around for many years, a lot longer then PD engines. The only real main difference between the two is how the injectors are designed to work and how they are controlled by the ECU.

 

[mister.c.]

I think you are missing the point , DSG Is the real issue here since it would be the first time seat would have mated it with a 170 diesel.

But when...

 

[Nathanio]

Well I guess the main benefit to Audi is that it meets the Euro 2010 standards.

To us - in the FR well i assume it will avoid the DPF lottery that many have endured, plus the CO2 emissions will be cut - in the TT its 140CO2 (and i think 139 in the A3) emissions, so Im guessing the leon will be 140-145 as opposed to 161 now. Moves it up the tax bands and a more desirable an option for many.

Its also supposed to be much quieter and more refined - I think the 140 and 170 lumps are quite noisy and a fair way behind a number of other diesels - see the reviews such as this one on the TT where perceptions of the benefits of the new engine are detailed:
http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/carreviews/firstdrives/221124/audi_tt.html

Don't know about the biodiesel.

I wouldn't believe everything that AutoExpress writes. They seem to have a very Pro Ford stance and always seem to have a downer on the VAG brand.

A couple of months ago they did the Tiguan Vs Kuga and even though the Tiguan seemed to tick almost every box higher than the Kuga and have better options etc the Ford still won....

The CR TDI and DSG has been available to order on the Octavia vRS for a month or so.

 

[Michael B]

How would you define quicker? 0-60 or a real world measure?

Both? I would just like to know how the CRD drives compares to the PD. Are the rev ranges the same? Is peak torque around the same? and in the same rev range?

 

[S8N]

I have been recently considering the TT TDI with the CRD as I am sick to death of the PD engine in my FR. Audi do the DSG slated for the TT TDI later this year, so my car replacement plan was going to be that. I think I will wait now for a bit and see what SEAT do. If the DSG with CRD comes on steam, I think I will just get another FR with that combo

 

[Bainie]

What evidence do you have that they are fragile? Common rail engines have been around for many years, a lot longer then PD engines. The only real main difference between the two is how the injectors are designed to work and how they are controlled by the ECU.

I was referring to my experiance of the Gm cdti engines, which have had a heap of issues, I certainly would not buy a vag commonrail when it is first released for that reason. The GM engines have had problems with injectors, swirl valves etc etc ... They are a lot more unreliable than the old dti engines for sure, a look on any vx forum will show you this ..