biggest mistake

[Cupra Ross]

anyway Cupra Ross just want to say at the end of the day " I love U " and no hard feelings

Of course mate. Nothing wrong with a bit of vigorous discourse. BTW, nice motor!

 

[BIGAR]

Thanks mate, I think the leons are up there with the best (Mrk 1 and Mrk 2 )

 

[jonathanp]

Nope, still the same even when mapped I know i owned a fairly well tuned R up until a few months ago.

5500 rpm is still the sweet spot, after that is just a waste of rpm.

And you can tune the 2.0L too, so im not sure where that point came and went too.

In my own experience the 20VT revs fine up to the red line, looking at the engine specs between mk1 and mk2 they actually seem very similar

Leon Cupra R

225.1 PS (222.0 bhp) (165.5 kW) @5900 rpm (198lb/ft at peak power)
280.0 Nm (207 lbft) (28.6 kgm) @2200 rpm


Leon Cupra

240.3 PS (237.0 bhp) (176.7 kW) @5700 rpm (218lb/ft at peak power)
300.0 Nm (221 lbft) (30.6 kgm) @2200 rpm
(seats own website says 5100rpm and 206lb/ft, bit of a mistake there)


both cars produce peak torque at the same revs and peak power at near enough the same revs, on top of that they both look to have a similar spread of torque from low revs up to peak power

its difficult to see how you could accuse one engine of being breathless and not like being revved and the other engine to be the opposite when they both seem to have been set up in much the same way

 

[BIGAR]

Ok all I can say is what do the stats show up to 7100 as the new leon cupra will still be pulling like a train in comparison.

 

[ZBOYD]

In my own experience the 20VT revs fine up to the red line, looking at the engine specs between mk1 and mk2 they actually seem very similar

Leon Cupra R

225.1 PS (222.0 bhp) (165.5 kW) @5900 rpm (198lb/ft at peak power)
280.0 Nm (207 lbft) (28.6 kgm) @2200 rpm


Leon Cupra

240.3 PS (237.0 bhp) (176.7 kW) @5700 rpm (218lb/ft at peak power)
300.0 Nm (221 lbft) (30.6 kgm) @2200 rpm
(seats own website says 5100rpm and 206lb/ft, bit of a mistake there)


both cars produce peak torque at the same revs and peak power at near enough the same revs, on top of that they both look to have a similar spread of torque from low revs up to peak power

its difficult to see how you could accuse one engine of being breathless and not like being revved and the other engine to be the opposite when they both seem to have been set up in much the same way

Don't remember accusing either engine of being breathless, put words in your own mouth, not mine.

The fact is the figures your qouting are most likely manufacturers figures, its long been proven on the rolling road days we have been on. The figures qouted are rarely anywhere near the manufacturers qouted.

I witnessed a new Cupra put out 266bhp standard last week, similarly one also developed similar figures at another independant RR the week earlier.

Leon R's have also seen higher than stated figures since they hit the market.

I can only comment on how the cars perform and what i've witnessed over several years. I don't trust the manufacturers figures though, as you've no reference to the conditions under which they were tested and on what equipment.

 

[jonathanp]

Don't remember accusing either engine of being breathless, put words in your own mouth, not mine.

fair enough but you get the gist of what I was trying to say, bit of a cheap shot really

 

[chippenhamwilts]

I witnessed a new Cupra put out 266bhp standard last week, similarly one also developed similar figures at another independant RR the week earlier.


I would love to know whether these quoted figures are actually at the wheels figures (unlikely IMO). What are the actual at the wheels figures, as thats the only BHP reading worth comparing.

It will also make a differnece knowing if the RR was calibrated, against what, when and by whom. Otherwise these figures are no more than just fishermans tales.

Dont get me wrong, I am hoping these are acurate and that the FR TDI is similarly understated as thats what I will be driving when it arrives.

 

[ZBOYD]

I witnessed a new Cupra put out 266bhp standard last week, similarly one also developed similar figures at another independant RR the week earlier.


I would love to know whether these quoted figures are actually at the wheels figures (unlikely IMO). What are the actual at the wheels figures, as thats the only BHP reading worth comparing.

It will also make a differnece knowing if the RR was calibrated, against what, when and by whom. Otherwise these figures are no more than just fishermans tales.

Dont get me wrong, I am hoping these are acurate and that the FR TDI is similarly understated as thats what I will be driving when it arrives.

In line with your statement, the manufacturers figures are just as much pie in the sky. Do you know how they tested the engines, was it in the car or on a bench dyno?

The car run last week at Awesome produced 247 atw 266.9 clutch

No doubt there will be doubters, we come to expect it.

I ran my Leon R on many rolling roads, and rarely got such good 'repeatability' as it did on Awesome's RR.

But always remember Dyno Lottery, search an ye shall find.

 

[chippenhamwilts]

In line with your statement, the manufacturers figures are just as much pie in the sky. Do you know how they tested the engines, was it in the car or on a bench dyno?

The car run last week at Awesome produced 247 atw 266.9 clutch

No doubt there will be doubters, we come to expect it.

I ran my Leon R on many rolling roads, and rarely got such good 'repeatability' as it did on Awesome's RR.

But always remember Dyno Lottery, search an ye shall find.

That's my point exactly, Awesome gave a reading of 266.9 at the clutch, thats just a guess as they can only guess as to what the loss is between clutch and wheels where the readings are usually taken. How did they work it out? by adding a % or just plucking a figure out of the air as every single car will be different (not every single make but every single car)

Now the 247 wheel reading is one every can use and compare more acurately against. Even allowing for slight differences in RR's, the wheel figure should be relatively close.

Bloody good ATW figure 247, I would be happy with that as standard (over 7bhp higher than manufacturers Flywheel? reading)

 

[ZBOYD]

In my opinion i think Awesomes clutch figures are generally good because they arec such small percentage losses.

Personally i think its laughable a FWD car can lose the same power as some small cars have in total, simply through their transmission alone. But Dyno Lottery is fun isn't it.

 

[MarkE]

Personally i think its laughable a FWD car can lose the same power as some small cars have in total, simply through their transmission alone.

Steady, that's like a whole thread on its own - the Scottish contingent will be along in a minute...

 

[ZBOYD]

 

[rrpalma]

Thank you for all your comments, although they became a little "passionate" and off-topic..

However nobody has yet cared to comment on the differences in driving and driver involvement between a Cupra and a 130i... Unfortunately, the BMW dealer here does not have any 130s for me to test drive...

On my initial comment (please check my 1st post on this thread): A very, very strange thing happened to me yesterday: I have been thinking for the past few months how much better looking the Cupra R is compared to the new Cupra... and how much I dislike the interior, but I still sold my LCR, though

So yesterday I walk into the dealer (had to pick-up wife's Alhambra), and see a new Leon --- suddenly something clicked on me, and now the car seems gorgeous to me... I figure there has to be something very f**ed-up in my head, so I ask the guy to drive a LCR and place it next to the new Leon, both in yellow... now I really, really like the new Cupra, and find the LCR a little "dated" perhaps... go figure.

I would please still like to get some comments from people who have driven both the Cupra nad the 130i...

 

[KAZSTE]

does it have to be a 130i?

before we start i have had a ibiza cupra for nearly 3 years and took delivery of a new one last friday, but I am also lucky enough to own a BMW z3 coupe, i strongly suggest that if you want something a little different and dont mind it not being new (or even nearly new) then these can be picked up for around the 20k mark. I have had many a happy drive in both cars and would not like to choose either over the other just wanted to make you aware of a possible left field choice that will definitely give you a lot of enjoyment, with the added bonus that depreciation is now almost non existance. Therfore buy one and if you dont like it, sell it for same price and buy your Leon!

 

[rrpalma]

Thanks. Unfortunately, there are no Z3s availabale in this country, AFAIK.

 

[Fast_Eddie]

The z3 has the old 3 series suspension iirc?, and is not really a fantastic drivers car( M coupe(breadvan shape) notwithstanding) The 130i from what I have read ( I have read many many articles on the 130i-but I have not driven one) is a very good gearbox/engine combo but suffers a little in the driving stakes due to spinning away some power because it has no LSD. It is also said to be a very hard ride!

I would think that the comparison between the 130i and the Cupra would come down to how much space you need, how much you want to pay for the car, how much you want to pay for servicing and how reliable you wanted your car to potentially be!

If I had the money, I would probably go for the 130i as I really like RWD cars and I do not need a lot of room for kids and familly etc.

 

[rrpalma]

Thanks for your comments. Unfortunately, I have already discarded the BMW 130. I am a big fan of ICE, and the local dealer informed me that if I install even the smallest non-original piece of equipment, I would void my warranty.

So now, my choices are the Cupra, the Cupra, the Cupra or a MB SportCoupe 350.

 

[Fast_Eddie]

Thanks for your comments. Unfortunately, I have already discarded the BMW 130. I am a big fan of ICE, and the local dealer informed me that if I install even the smallest non-original piece of equipment, I would void my warranty.

That sounds a bit harsh but good luck with your cupra!!

 

[chippenhamwilts]

I think i would get a second opinion on that from other BM dealers, some dealers don't have a clue what they are talking about and will feed you full of **** to make more money out of you. I think they'd be hard pushed to stop you claiming on a warranty for a break down due to a stereo and speakers if correctly and proffesionally installed.

 

[rrpalma]

I think i would get a second opinion on that from other BM dealers, some dealers don't have a clue what they are talking about and will feed you full of **** to make more money out of you. I think they'd be hard pushed to stop you claiming on a warranty for a break down due to a stereo and speakers if correctly and proffesionally installed.

Couldn't agree more with you. Just one BMW dealer in this country, though...